Now, if ALL places were run like this...tell me what you think!

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Hey guys!!

I was reading a few threads on 'customer service' running amok, and wanted to share how things owrk at my current clinic. I swear, if all places would impart these rules/guidelines, the world of nursing would be so much better to work in.

First, I work in a general medicine clinic. My collaborating doc is well known for treating pain, but we are NOT a pain clinic. The patients get schooled on this at the first office visit, if not before. My OM, (the doc's daughter) is a gem, she is PHENOMENAL! She (well, all of us, really) has a zero-tolerance policy for bull, and once you're on her list, you're on it.

*We don't tolerate abuse. Period. If you come in and raise sand, you're out. Dismissed from the practice as a patient. If you have a friend or family member come in and raise sand for you, you're still out. If you bring a friend to your office visit, and that friend steals someone's wallet in the waiting room, you're still out. You brought them.

*We talk to each other. Actually had one lady tell me when I was new that the doc always gave her extra meds "in case she had a bad day". When I baked and said I'd have to verify that, she proceeded to tell me that our MA knew how to call them in, and no, he didn't write down the extra pills, just added them in when the script was called to the pharmacy. So, staff-splitting does NOT work.

*Behavior really does count. We have a 200-person strong waiting list to be a patient here. I databased it myself, from a tattered little book. Every time someone calls or comes by to ask where they are on the list, I can tell with a click of a mouse. People who come in and flip an attitude or demand to be seen immediately either get bumped to the bottom of the list, or taken off of it altogether. Posted a story relating to THAT on my other thread about things you'd love to tell patients. We even drew up a memo detailing the rules, that we hand out when someone comes by to add their name. For the ones that phone their order in, I call personally and explain the details.

* We keep records. Since we do prescribe controlled substances, if we hear or see that a patient has been arrested for DUI, selling, possession, or other offenses, we dismiss. If we get a call that someone is selling, we dismiss. If someone fails a drug screen, we dismiss. We have a closet full of dismissed charts, all carefully organized and databased (I love my computer) with names, reasons for dismissal, etc. You'd be amazed at what people will try to sneak back in. Different hair, different NAME, fit-throwing, wheedling, threats, etc. This souldn't be a surprise. All our patients are required to sign a behavior contract when they come to the clinic, that clearly states what comprises grounds for dismissal.

We have no doorknob leading from the lobby to the clinic proper. It was removed. We had people coming in without permission for 'sidewalk consults', demanding pain shots, and one lovely lady who proceeded to stand there, even though it was quite obvious that my OM was on the phone, shaking her pill bottle in her face and screaming, "WHERE are my %^&* refills?!?!?" Yep, bye-bye, sweetie!

We have a medication policy, as we call all prescriptions in. The meds are guaranteed by a certain time, period. No, you don't get an early call in without a darn good reason, and some people get REALLY creative. No problem, they get moved to the bottom of the pile. Every time they come back in (some of these people must LIVE at the pharmacy) wanting to know why they haven't gotten their meds yet, to the bottom they go. May sound mean, but they get the point after a while.

Point being, we just DO NOT reward bad behavior. There's no sense in it. Sure, we may lose a patient here and there that doesn't want to comply with the rules, but there are dozens ready to fill their spot in the chart rack. We're not outright mean, we just refuse to take abuse lying down.

So, my question...if it works for us, why on Earth can hospitals and other places make it work, too? Set policies and adhere to them, that's really all it is. Why is this phenomenon so difficult to replicate? They sure don't care to policy the staff to death, so I know it's not that. Why not go in the other direction?

Oh please. You really have a problem with removing abusive patients from a practice? Really?

I suppose you think healthcare workers should just lay back and take whatever comes their way?

If so, you're part of the problem. No one has the "right" to be abusive, but a private business has every right to remove a "customer" from their property.

Doctor shopping, pill mills, and drug-seeking/selling are very real, very big problems in certain parts of the country. It's THE biggest drug problem where I'm at. Do you really have a problem with an MD taking responsibility and monitoring who he gives controlled substances to? It's his license and livelihood (not to mention his duty) that is on the line if he doesn't.

Do you really think a patient should be able to get whatever they demand?

Really?

Where did she say that a patient should get whatever they demand? I think it's the sitting in the doc's office for 3 hours that she dislikes and the eye-rolling receptionist.

Being painted with the same brush as rudies and druggies is what gets me. The OP didn't make clear, at least to me, that she was talking about drug abusers. It sounded like she was saying that any patient, whatever their problem, who so much as sighs too deeply will be thrown out. And the attitude that underlies her OP is just plain haughty.

She and her colleagues need to know what it's like to have to crawl and beg for help - personal firsthand experience is a real eye-opener.

I guess I don't see the controversy.

All over the world, there are people going to the doctors' offices, showing up on time, being polite to the staff and there is mutual respect. What percentage of your patients does this describe?

Specializes in Psychiatry.
now, diane and others who kudo'ed her - any of you could be arrested today, this very day, for whatever charge, including some that will get you dismissed from the holier-than-thou practice. guilty or not, they will leave out on your bum, left to cold turkey detox. sounds like cruel and unusual punishment to me.

get ready, all, for the pre-crime punishment wave of the not so distant future - the time when people, including you, can be punished (incarcerated, fried? hung? shot? lethally injected?) for crimes you might commit. :eek:

i don't even have a coherent response for this.

all i can say is wow... just..wow

To the poster who asked what is wrong with calling in for a refill an hour before closing? You must not have ever worked in a clinic before! Most of the time you are struggling to get things done so you can close up and go home. When people call in at the last minute, then you are stuck staying later to tend to their needs. No, once in a while this is okay.....but this will happen on a daily basis in the clinic. We do not return phone calls if messages are left after 4:00 for a reason. Yes, if it is an emergency we will handle that of course, but people calling at 4:20 because their kid has been sick "all day" is ridiculous. I wish our docs would enforce the late arrival appts. People come in 45 minutes after their appointment time and they are still seen. Sorry but this is BS! I would never DREAM of coming 15 minutes late to an appt! Then they act irritated when you ask why they were late! If they would be told to turn around and go home the first time this happened, you can bet that there wouldn't be a second time! By allowing people to do inappropriate things once, you reinforce the behavior. I agree with ALL of the things your clinic is doing. I am sure that there are exceptions that are allowed on a minimal basis but it sounds like you just don't put up with BS. All of the thing that you dismiss people for are acts of disrespect and there is nothing wrong with that. And that is the way it should be!

I didn't get the impression at all that there is any flexibility or leeway in this practice for anything, however minimal. Everyone is presumed, always, to be a lowlife, a drugseeking scumbag, due to being on welfare - or, although not said, maybe the wrong color. Furthermore, here's a hypothetical for everyone - how about the hospital prez or an employee of the OP's practice, or the town mayor or some other rich, powerful, well-heeled, well-connected person,

or family or friend of same getting sick or hurt and needing attention? Is that person going to be content to wait til tomorrow or go to an ER or otherwise not be given speedy, front of the line treatment? You and I all know the answer. I guess it's the hypocrisy that is troubling me. What's good for the geese of her practice is not what would be good for the ganders.

Why does a call for refills that is received inconveniently late have to be returned that day? Or returned at all. Just call the refill to the pharmacy the next day. Also, has a anyone ever told them that they need to call before a certain time for refills? And to call at least 2 weeks before they run out?

I guess your doc needs the money if he is having people come in late when they've been sick all day. Of course, there are working parents who believed the child wasn't sick enough for the parent to leave work and tend to. Kudos to those workers. But maybe your doc doesn't really need to see the child. How about sending them to the ER or an urgent care? Or, if your town is lucky enough to have one, to the after-hours clinic? Or maybe the doc could see them alone, without keeping the whole staff late?

Funny, you won't come 15 minutes late, but the office doesn't mind making you wait an hour! Or more! :mad:

Specializes in Psychiatry.
Funny, you won't come 15 minutes late, but the office doesn't mind making you wait an hour! Or more! :mad:

I'll agree with you on this.

this happens at most practices, unfortunately.

I'll agree with you on this.

this happens at most practices, unfortunately.

So we should all fire those who do this to us. :mad:

So, my question...if it works for us, why on Earth can hospitals and other places make it work, too? Set policies and adhere to them, that's really all it is. Why is this phenomenon so difficult to replicate? They sure don't care to policy the staff to death, so I know it's not that. Why not go in the other direction?

Three words: Patient Satisfaction Scores.

It all boils down to the almighty dollar. Every body in a bed is dollar signs to the CEO. How the body in the bed behaves is not part of the equation.

Staff satisfaction scores mean nothing, because staff is replaceable. There are new grad nurses desperate for jobs who will work for less, and experienced nurses who can't afford to quit because they have bills to pay. The hospital is the best paying gig in town, aside from agency work, which isn't steady or reliable and doesn't provide health insurance.

I would just like to add... as easy as it is for patients to choose where they go and how they act... you also have the choice to switch professions if you find that this one doesn't suit you.... just a thought.

Yes, I'm going to do just that. I'm going to quit my $30/hr job with health insurance that I worked, sacrificed, and overcame significant obstacles for several years of my life to achieve, where 50% of the general public I work with are rude, ill-tempered and take no accountability for themselves, to go bust my backside for minimum wage with no health insurance, where 50% of the public are rude and ill-tempered and take no accountability for themselves. Yes, that is going to solve everything. Thank you, your words of encouragement have changed my life! :lol2:

Specializes in Hospice.

my responses are this color:

i don't think so. you know, the old saw - walk a mile in my shoes before you judge me. and op's practice wishes suffering upon those who should be presumed innocent until proven otherwise in a court of law - they just don't say it in words, only in their actions. which is worse? but it isn't a court of law. it's a medical practice that has established rules for acceptable behavior. it is under no obligation, moral or otherwise, to tolerate or reward behavior that is abusive, manipulative or otherwise unacceptable. patients are "fired" when their own behavior warrants it ... what's to "prove"? play games with your scripts or otherwise behave like a drug seeker, then you're out. action>>>>>>consequences.

now, diane and others who kudo'ed her - any of you could be arrested today, this very day, for whatever charge, including some that will get you dismissed from the holier-than-thou practice. guilty or not, they will leave out on your bum, left to cold turkey detox. sounds like cruel and unusual punishment to me. we have no information on what constitutes a "report" or how it is verified or investigated by the practice. personally, if you're getting controlled scripts from me and you get popped for an offense related to substance abuse it's reasonable to infer that you're using my practice to feed your habit. i'm under no obligation, moral or otherwise, to feed your habit, lose my livelihood, get my license revoked and possibly arrested myself to keep you from having to deal with the consequences of your behavior.

get ready, all, for the pre-crime punishment wave of the not so distant future - the time when people, including you, can be punished (incarcerated, fried? hung? shot? lethally injected?) for crimes you might commit. :eek:

once again, the sanctions are imposed for behavior that has already occurred. no "might" about it.

a lot of people have no idea what it is like to be in pain or to be on the receiving end of the treatment op describes. worst of all is her/their attitude. you are scum and we will keep you in your place. we have no respect for you because we would never do the things you do or ever be on welfare. well, i dare say that none of us knows what we will do or just how we will behave if we were in a particular set of circumstances.i call bull on this bit ... while you're correct that many professionals are totally ignorant of both chronic pain as well as the reality of poverty/public assistance, the fact is that many of us are familiar with those things both professionally and in our own lives. the expectation of appropriate behavior is not the same as contempt and it's wrong to conflate the two.

her latest statement, about not accepting patients from a shut down practice - well, she is assuming that the patients are why the practice got shut down. don't you see the haughtiness there? even paranoia? no, i see competent risk management and a rational aversion to being had. again, i'm assuming that the ops practice knows the difference between a practice shut down for being a pill mill and one closed for other reasons.

if you search on "drug seeking" you'll see many posts from me addressing the poor treatment of people with chronic pain as well as frank addicts and recipients of public assistance. for every professional who's ignorant and judgemental of poverty, chronic pain or the treatment of addiction, there are two who mistakenly believe that uncritical non-judgement and warm fuzzies are helpful or appropriate.

first of all, what you're advocating is called "enabling" ... shielding addicts from the consequences of their behavior. it is the worst thing you can do to an addicted person. not very compassionate. totally not professional and, imho, reaches the level of malpractice. it really has more to do with the needs of the enabler. rescue fantasies come immediately to mind, but there are other secondary benefits to becoming a doormat for a drug-seeker - different for different people.

secondly, swallowing the abuse handed out by patients, whether drug-seeking or otherwise, then being required to pretend that it's all ok is soul-killing. it actually creates the kind of attitudes you denounce so vehemently.

in the ops practice, the focus of the rules are on the behavior, not the person, which is where it should be.

i recommend a little more study of addiction treatment and behavioral science. you might also investigate whether it's feasible to join or sit in on an al-anon meeting. check out the forum here for nurses in recovery ... it can be very informative.

secondly, swallowing the abuse handed out by patients, whether drug-seeking or otherwise, and being required to pretend that it's all ok is soul-killing and actually creates the kind of attitudes you denounce so vehemently.

agree completely. when employees are required to kow-tow to the antics of adults who act like spoiled little children (obviously in the absence of pathology that affects behavior and cognition), instead of being empowered to require decent behavior of those who come to us to seek care, this sets us up to become resentful and burnt out. it is a huge problem in health care today, all because of the "customer service" model.

Yes, I'm going to do just that. I'm going to quit my $30/hr job with health insurance that I worked, sacrificed, and overcame significant obstacles for several years of my life to achieve, where 50% of the general public I work with are rude, ill-tempered and take no accountability for themselves, to go bust my backside for minimum wage with no health insurance, where 50% of the public are rude and ill-tempered and take no accountability for themselves. Yes, that is going to solve everything. Thank you, your words of encouragement have changed my life! :lol2:

It wasn't meant to change your life. It was meant to point out that there IS a reason you are in this profession (see your examples) and that every profession has to deal with the same bs (again see your examples). You don't get a free pass because you went to school and became a nurse.

How many nurses, doctors, techs, aides, psychologists, medical receptionists etc etc do you think might have gone to a restaurant and the waitress brought them the wrong food, or they had to wait a little longer than they would like for a refill, or any number of problems that can occur an they caught an attitude with her? Oh but she is just an uneducated, minimum wage POS that deserves it?

Specializes in Hospice.
It wasn't meant to change your life. It was meant to point out that there IS a reason you are in this profession (see your examples) and that every profession has to deal with the same bs (again see your examples). You don't get a free pass because you went to school and became a nurse.

How many nurses, doctors, techs, aides, psychologists, medical receptionists etc etc do you think might have gone to a restaurant and the waitress brought them the wrong food, or they had to wait a little longer than they would like for a refill, or any number of problems that can occur an they caught an attitude with her? Oh but she is just an uneducated, minimum wage POS that deserves it?

It all goes to show that krep rolls downhill ... and you're right, we do tend to need reminding that it's easy to take our resentments out on those we perceive as below us on the social/money/moral scale. They don't usually feel free to push back. This is the mechanism by which "customer service" as practiced in most health care settings acts to kill compassion, as Stargazer pointed out above.

In other words, I have the right to refuse to be abused and I have the responsibility to make sure that I don't abuse anyone else. Can't have one without the other.

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