Several of us who have gone back to school to become NPs have encountered a lot of animosity from some fellow nurses. We get remarks like, "You think you're better than us?" The other night at work, several of the nurses were complaining that they didn't think they should have to take orders from NPs because, "they're just nurses like me, they're not doctors." Recently one of our nurses had surgery and proclaimed that she didn't want, "some NURSE" (i.e. CRNA) doing her anesthesia, she demanded a doctor.
I was coming here to post this and ask if any of you had encountered that same type of attitude, but then I see yet another post demeaning the DNP and read some of the comments and see that it's no better.
I'm in a DNP program and I'm proud to be. I don't think that I'm any better than an MSN prepared NP. You may think that it's all fluff (and there is some of that, but from talking to my MSN friends, no more than in most MSN programs) but I'm proud of the education that I'm receiving and I have no doubt that I'll be a great nurse practitioner when I'm done. I think it's funny, I can't think of any other profession where obtaining more education is looked down on like it is in nursing.
For the record, I don't plan on calling myself "doctor" for fear of confusing patients. I don't feel that I'm any "better" than an MSN prepared NP or that an MSN is a "joke." I just think it's very telling that in our profession, any attempt to better yourself is looked down on. If you don't want to become an APN, don't. We need good nurses at the bedside. If you have an MSN and don't want to get a DNP, don't. But can we all please stop slamming people who do make that choice?
I want to do research and to teach as well as practice clinically, I realize that I can do that with an MSN, but I felt like the DNP would better prepare me for that. If you don't feel that way, that's your right. If you don't want to teach or be involved in research, that's fine too.
Until we can all respect the choices each of us makes and the contributions we can all make, our profession is never going to advance.
Ahh...that feels better. I'll get of my soapbox now. Bring on the flames...
Specializes in LTC, CPR instructor, First aid instructor..
I got some of this type of harrasment from some of the other members of the ambulance corps I was a member or when I first became an EMT simply because I just wanted to improve the care provided to those individuals we transported.
So sorry to hear this. I, as an RN, appreciate the NPs with which I have worked. They are more available than M.D.s and, it seems, more willing to share their knowledge. I am happy to see the NP at my PCPs office. She has more time to talk with me and she has always treated my condition appropriately. I think that if NPs and other advance practice nurses continue treating others as they want to be treated, over time, the attitudes will improve.
Remember, "A rising tide lifts all boats." Let's all continue to become as well-educated as we choose, and always treat others with respect and encouragement. We will all reap the reward.
Specializes in M/S and NICU Certified-Now Retired.
Been a male in nursing for 40 years. It has always been the same no matter how far back you go. The 3 year nurses looked down on 2 year nurses. Then for a long time, nursing heirarchy pushed BSN. The 2 and 3 year nurses didn't see why getting a BSN was any big deal. This has never ended.
Nurses are people and their actions and prejudices are no different than any other human. We all want to be better than the rest and have more respect. That will never change. I do not seek validation just on what others think or say. I know in my mind I do the best I can because I do what I think is right. You will always be belittled by someone, and the reason they belittle you is for their own imature reasons. It does not diminish me one iota. Be happy in your choices and do what is important to you. Life is short. Life is short. Do what makes you happy or suffer a fate worse than death.
Kinda goes against all common sense and logic doesn't it? If, as a RN, you learn how to use a stethoscope, then there's one single example out of many skills learned as an RN that apply to NP skills.
Yeah, but many things considered "common sense" are disproven all the time, which is why research is such a useful thing. :)
Anyway, not to belittle RN experience, which I'm sure is extremely useful. However, people coming from other backgrounds bring other types of skills to the table as well. I think one issue is that RN experience often varies so widely that it can be hard to say in no uncertain terms "You must have x experience for x number of years before you can do x". It really depends on the RN experience, the person's specialty of interest, the type of training at the program (since as we all know, NP programs can vary widely as well), etc. There are so many variables that it seems like a blanket statement that "all NPs must have RN experience in order to practice competently" wouldn't be very hard to disprove. Do we think that all RNs must have LPN experience in order to practice as a RN?
Yeah, but many things considered "common sense" are disproven all the time, which is why research is such a useful thing. :)
Anyway, not to belittle RN experience, which I'm sure is extremely useful. However, people coming from other backgrounds bring other types of skills to the table as well. I think one issue is that RN experience often varies so widely that it can be hard to say in no uncertain terms "You must have x experience for x number of years before you can do x". It really depends on the RN experience, the person's specialty of interest, the type of training at the program (since as we all know, NP programs can vary widely as well), etc. There are so many variables that it seems like a blanket statement that "all NPs must have RN experience in order to practice competently" wouldn't be very hard to disprove. Do we think that all RNs must have LPN experience in order to practice as a RN?
I agree with you here. As RNs we tend to gravitate to what we have an interest in, whether acute care, ICU, home care, administration and so on. Experience is what you make it. But like anything else, life intervenes and one must adjust to it or become miserable. I have been an acute care RN since I graduated in the late 90's. Having never worked in a primary care setting I was nervous about going for FNP. It would have made sense to go into acute care NP, but that is impractical for my area. Going through the program and clinicals was a very rewarding experience; I was so unfamiliar with office RN work that I made sure I learned from them and my preceptor to gain appreciation for the RN role in that setting. I value my RN experience because I feel very strong in diagnostics and intervention, but I literally had to learn to be an office RN while in school for FNP. Simple things like getting a peak flow, strep test, or setting up a room for a pap was very foreign to a seasoned ICU nurse. I am almost well rounded. I say almost because there are still many things I don't know, but I can learn what I can from the ones that are expert in their fields.
So, I think we need to accept we all come from different places in nursing. I don't believe that one type of experience is better than another. In NP school we all start out the same. Its the level of critical thinking skill that is developed after one becomes an RN that will be the variable in determining the degree of difficulty one has in school. And the only way to gain critical thinking skill is through the experience of nursing, so take from it what you can and go from there. We all have a common thread...we are all nurses no matter how many letters are behind your name, and no matter what sub-field we gravitate toward. :redpinkhe
Kinda goes against all common sense and logic doesn't it? If, as a RN, you learn how to use a stethoscope, then there's one single example out of many skills learned as an RN that apply to NP skills.
Logically, yes for the layman. This probably depends on the rigor of the program you went through to achieve your ANP. I know my stethoscope skills did not lend a huge helping hand. This can be taught to someone with no experience in little time. Most of the skills used at the RN level didn't provide much of a benefit to me. In fact, those who graduated top of our ANP class were not the ones with the most RN experience. Kind of telling that study is.
RN experience provides "experience" which is important. I disagree that stethoscope skills tend to be taught in little time. the more experience you have with a stethoscope the more you have listened which means you know more. Everything from murmurs and splits to gallops on assessment improve with experience. In fact I can't think of a RN skill that didn't benefit me as a NP. history taking, physical assessment, drug administration, resp care, nutritional assessment, social assessment, communication skills, management skills.
RN experience provides "experience" which is important. I disagree that stethoscope skills tend to be taught in little time. the more experience you have with a stethoscope the more you have listened which means you know more. Everything from murmurs and splits to gallops on assessment improve with experience. In fact I can't think of a RN skill that didn't benefit me as a NP. history taking, physical assessment, drug administration, resp care, nutritional assessment, social assessment, communication skills, management skills.
I love being around smart people who realize they are learning everyday!
I love being around smart people who realize they are learning everyday!
Just because someone thinks you can become a good NP without necessarily having a lot of RN experience doesn't mean they don't think they learn something new every day. Nor does it mean that they don't appreciate what RN experience can and does bring to the table.
First of all I want to encourage you on your journey!!! And I want to state that I have worked with NP's in an ortho hospital, I appreciate what you do! I found that the presence of a NP was wonderful. They don't come and go so quickly that if you need to speak with them about a patient and are tied up with another you just miss out on a face to face converstion about a patients needs. I recently had a surgery that resulted in some complications, my Dr was in surgery so I saw the NP, she was wonderful took the time to talk with me about my health and gave me information and advice that the surgeon did not when I saw him. So as an RN I want to thank you for what you are doing, it will result in better heathcare for all of us!! God Bless.
Logically, yes for the layman. This probably depends on the rigor of the program you went through to achieve your ANP. I know my stethoscope skills did not lend a huge helping hand. This can be taught to someone with no experience in little time. Most of the skills used at the RN level didn't provide much of a benefit to me. In fact, those who graduated top of our ANP class were not the ones with the most RN experience. Kind of telling that study is.
Certainly you can teach many technical skills in a short time. It's listening to hundreds of lung, bowel, and heart sounds, for example, where those "experience skills" come into play. Showing up with that experience prior to entering NP school has to be a bonus.
Reminds me of a saying that goes something like this.... Perhaps instead of worrying about how green the grass is on the other side, take time to mow your own lawn.It sounds as though there is a giant lack of understanding as to what the MSN and DNP scope of care is in the OP. I'm more of a person who favors cooperative relationships in the work place with no one having a higher "status" than anyone else. We're all on the same team, right?
FranEMTnurse, CNA, LPN, EMT-I
3,619 Posts
I got some of this type of harrasment from some of the other members of the ambulance corps I was a member or when I first became an EMT simply because I just wanted to improve the care provided to those individuals we transported.