News Release: Doctors to Nurses (please read)

Published

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060228/hl_nm/philippines_exodus_dc

this was sent to me this evening. i think that you need to be aware of it, not sure when and if it will actually go into effect. but it is something that you should know about. at least it will open up some discussion on the topic.

.. I remember numerous tv ads commending overseas workers, branding them as "heroes".. sure did raise the dollar returns ..

.. a few years later.. when second coursers took the ads' challenge.. criticism and scorn arose from the very type of people who payed and dispayed those ads.. odd isn't it :p

... maybe economy improvement meant highly compensated employment for some (a.k.a., call center agents, medical transcriptionists..):smokin: .. well that should have been introduced way back then when we were still being asked, " what'd u wanna be when u grow up?":saint: .. and before the advent of reality

... allow me to second your comment lawrence:wink2: :wink2: .. would've been cool if my parents had their own hospital :lol2: .. then again, it'll probly close due to lack of nurses and doctors :lol2:

Yap, very odd indeed. All I can say is the solution being brewed by Duque and Galves-Tan would only further lower the morale of doctors (esp. new ones) and would even make them more determine to get out of this country ASAP.

Definitely, not the way to go.

I am having 2nd thoughts on the medical tourism thing too. Would this only make the rich doctors even richer and the average doctors poorer?

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.. i think that had been going on for quite some time (i.e., transplants).. though only recently has the government joined in, marking our country's specialty in plastic surgery, cosmetic surg (bariatric i think), ophtha and dentistry...

The difference was that before, only big high tech private hospitals and some specialty government hospitals were involved..

.. The tertiary government hospital i'm interning now had just recently started to showcase their specializations.. but i doubt any foreigner would be coming over for surgery:devil: ..

i've got nothing against medical tourism, its a good idea :rolleyes: in all fairness :sofahider :beer: .. We were once told that its a way to keep the doctors from going away, that something is being done and we're needed... maybe its a good thing for those who're already specialized (and had trained abroad, say, the u.s maybe :yeah: ).. but if you're just like me, at the very bottom of the food chain.. and an opportunity comes banging in your ears :mad: :icon_bigg ...

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I think one of MY concerns is if "hypothetically" speaking - a code blue situation occured in say an ER amongst "Doctor" RNs- ( Erased for purposes stated)

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I think one of the concerns is if "hypothetically" speaking - a code blue situation occured in say an ER amongst "Doctor" RNs- How would they "instinctively" respond? -As an RN or a Dr.? I think that we have all had our share of Dr.s "Egos" and though I beleive that one can transform oneself to becoming anything they want to be-If One thing will get in the way of this transorfmation- it will be a "Doctors" ego! I can also imagine the Litigation and liability risks a US hospital faces, if a dillema were to occur! Wouldnt that make a great "ER" TV episode?! Pinoy Dr. , now RN going above and beyond the call of an RN as a Doctor!

Sorry, but in all of my years of working as an RN in the US, and they are too many to count, I have never come across this. And I have worked with nurses that were physicians in their country way before it became a fashionable thing to do. And just so that you are aware, physician training in many other countries is quite similar to what we do in the US as nurses.

In the critical care areas, there are already standards in place or protocols in most ICUs that give us standing orders on what to do, same as for the ER. So we do many things without the physician even there. Same thing for the Emergency Dept. And on the floors, you will have an entire team there before a minute or two passes, in most cases. And I am sure that we are alot more aggressive than you are in many of the facilites where you are.

In fact, I know that we are. You will need a full orientation to working in the US, it is quite different than from what you are used to. And if anything, with language differences, and they do exist, even in English, it wil take time to get acclimated to working in the US.

Every single doctor that has come from the Philippines as an RN is too busy absorbing all that they can about the new culture. And they are aware that if they overstep their licenses, the Scope of Practice, of their state, they can also lose their licenses much quicker that it took to get it.

So, all that you are doing is setting up a hypothetical issue that has never occurred. Please be careful in what you "think" up. It doesn't work over here. And can be considered demeaning to those that work hard to get to where they are today.

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I would just like to add that the curent phenomenon of migration of skilled and highly educated workers/professionals from the Philippines is very wide spread across all professions. From "domestic helpers", teachers, nurses, doctors, engineers, mechanics, lawyers and the very latest of w/c are the commercial airline pilots here.

This phenomenon maybe "hot" right now but this has been going on for decades now in the Philippines. Teachers becoming "domestic helpers" in HK, singapore and other countries just to make money to send their kids to school and then their kids all grown-up with good degrees still can't find decent jobs in the Phils. What to do? Do these now grown-up kids let their future kids experience the same thing? It seems to be a never-ending cycle. No progress.

This migration also has been going on for a long, long time in other countries.

We must heard of professionals on one country working as a cab driver (for the mean time) in another. But there's nothing wrong with it. It's good, decent, honest living. We must do whatever we can for ourselves and our family. .

There are many factors but the main reasons are economic: poor wages, poor working environment, very little carreer advancement and whatever the gov't says; there are really no job opportunities for everyone because the gov't haven't embraced globalization yet. If there are, then why do all professionals and skilled workers are going out? Some even have to "re-invent" themselves, such as doctors, and other professionals shifting to nursing and some even go to "call centers" and "Medical transcriptionist" eventhough they have a degree from another course. Everyone has to do what they have to do to survive ( as long as its decent, honest work) and no one has the right to say don't do this or don't do that.

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I think one of the concerns is if "hypothetically" speaking - a code blue situation occured in say an ER amongst "Doctor" RNs- How would they "instinctively" respond? -As an RN or a Dr.? I think that we have all had our share of Dr.s "Egos" and though I beleive that one can transform oneself to becoming anything they want to be-If One thing will get in the way of this transorfmation- it will be a "Doctors" ego! I can also imagine the Litigation and liability risks a US hospital faces, if a dillema were to occur! Wouldnt that make a great "ER" TV episode?! Pinoy Dr. , now RN going above and beyond the call of an RN as a Doctor!

I really don't know what you mean by Dr's "Egos". In any hospital, whether its in the Phils. or another country the nurse and the MD always work hand-in-hand.

You will be working with american doctors. I hope you don't treat the american MDs the way you treat Fil. MDs behind their back.

In community/rural medical centers, the nurse and the MD even share resposibilities to keep the community center afloat. We can't say that i'm not going to do that or it's not in my job description and both are under-paid and over-worked. Can't blame any of them if they don't want to abuse their body anymore for very measly pay. And a staff RN who REALLY worked in hospitals in the Phils. whether its rural, gov't or private will sympathize with the MDs, esp. the house or resident MDs because they know and feel what they are feeling. Usually, the ones who look down on MDs shifting to RNs are the ones who aren't really involved in the day-to-day activities of the hospital. The staff RN and the house residents are really the ones keeping the hospitals afloat here in the Phils. (so they symphatize w/ each other and they had enough).

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I think one of the concerns is if "hypothetically" speaking - a code blue situation occured in say an ER amongst "Doctor" RNs- How would they "instinctively" respond? -As an RN or a Dr.? I think that we have all had our share of Dr.s "Egos" and though I beleive that one can transform oneself to becoming anything they want to be-If One thing will get in the way of this transorfmation- it will be a "Doctors" ego! I can also imagine the Litigation and liability risks a US hospital faces, if a dillema were to occur! Wouldnt that make a great "ER" TV episode?! Pinoy Dr. , now RN going above and beyond the call of an RN as a Doctor!

wow! i guess you are one of those who frown on MD's becoming RN's huh.....anyways, MD's becoming RN's is generally frowned upon in the medical circa here in manila but for them to shift to RN's,all have forgotten their Dr. Ego pride you were mentioning.....

now what is wrong with going way above and beyond the call of an RN as a doctor in the ER? you mean you dont have the conscience to save a LIFE even if you what you know would save one? what if you see a pregnant woman in advance labor in a shopping mall? you would not help her just becoz you are not in a hospital? would you still think of the lawsuit you might face? then why be a nurse in the first place?

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It has been going on for years just has become more common place. But if the government decides that too many doctors are leaving the country, they can put a hold onto that.

Nurses were always trained in excess to be able to have many go off and send money home, but I do not think that they ever considered that so many doctors and dentists would be making the switch.

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yes, the gov't can ban doctors from shifting to nursing but i bet it won't be as effective as allowing these professionals to decide on their own to stay. policy should be on how to make the local health sector a thriving venue for medical careers (not a bog of thankless jobs with dismal pay). i guess for this matter, you gotta inspire than impose o'wise heightened disenchantment is bound to make these people all the more wanting to get out.

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I think one of the concerns is if "hypothetically" speaking - a code blue situation occured in say an ER amongst "Doctor" RNs- How would they "instinctively" respond? -As an RN or a Dr.? I think that we have all had our share of Dr.s "Egos" and though I beleive that one can transform oneself to becoming anything they want to be-If One thing will get in the way of this transorfmation- it will be a "Doctors" ego! I can also imagine the Litigation and liability risks a US hospital faces, if a dillema were to occur! Wouldnt that make a great "ER" TV episode?! Pinoy Dr. , now RN going above and beyond the call of an RN as a Doctor!

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maybe so but i think that the instance a doctor decides to become an rn, he has already thrown his "dr. ego" out the door, reset his buttons so to speak and re-learn to do things according to his "new" chosen profession.

if for some reason he suddenly breaks out of his new mold to save a life and was successful....bless his soul. the hospital wouldn't mind that, or would they?

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( Edited -erased ) The Nursing schools in the Philippines today are producing 10-20K RNs ( Or are projected to produce that many in the near term) in a country where there are only 20,000 Hospital Nursing jobs. I think the problem may be more 'systemic' in the educational process. I think most of you will agree that that is something we cannopt compromise and that new standards will have to be defined.

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Actualy, the hypothetical scenario actualy played out in real life, but the circumcstances were in a Hospital in Nevada, wherein a Filipino RN who was originaly a Doctor challenged the judgments of a Nurse Practitioner. So it is more than an 'urban legend'. Needless to say the said Dr- RN has been terminated and has lost his liscence as an RN, and is supposedely,possibly also being sent back home to the Philippines

i am very interested in this case. its good if you can post a link to this "actual" news

a RN challenging a Nurse Practitioner regarding proper treatment of a patient is considered taboo in the US even if it could save lives? any truths to this?

treating patients should not be based only on who is the higher authority especially in life and death situations. medical residents always question consultants in questionable treatments. sometimes, the higher authority overlooks a certain portion of his treatment and if this happens, could result in a loss of life. i personally see no problems for RN's questioning and suggestioning other treatment options to the nurse practioner. a free flow of ideas is a plus in the corporate and healthcare industry if they are to be competitive

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Specializes in Med/Surg/Med-Tele/SDU/ED.
Actualy, the hypothetical scenario actualy played out in real life, but the circumcstances were in a Hospital in Nevada, wherein a Filipino RN who was originaly a Doctor challenged the judgments of a Nurse Practitioner. So it is more than an 'urban legend'.
I have heard of this story too.

always a friend of a friend of a friend.

can never get the name of the actual person involved, what happened, and where he/she is now. nor which hospital, what department, and when.

sometimes the story says "ER," and the MD/RN "saved a life," but is "terminated" because he "stepped outside the bounds of the Nurse Practice Act," and the US MDs are not happy about it, so they kicked "him out of the hospital & revoked his license."

Needless to say the said Dr-RN has been terminated and has lost his liscence as an RN, and is supposedely,possibly also being sent back home to the Philippines.
Suzanne, can you comment on this?

It may be easy to terminate a nurse as an employee, but I don't think it's easy to revoke a license without due process--and I would expect such a case to be a cause celebre, which means it'll be all over the news.

I may be wrong...this is why I'm asking if somebody can point us to a reliable source.

The report indicated an investigation into the "nursing process" and nursing educational process in the Phils. It implied that there are "some" schools in the Philippines that "Fast track" , Doctors whose intentions it is to become an RN.
josie, can you give us a link to this report, or PM me the actual report?

I'm very interested in seeing this report.

I'm teaching now, and I think my school (& other nursing schools) will be very interested in seeing a copy of this report, as it impacts the Philippine nursing educational system.

I hope we can finally get to the root of this story.

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