New LPNs going to EC....why not?

[luv4nursing]

Hey everyone,

Im a soon to be new LPN (graduating in a week thank goodness!) and I have read in several threads and heard from many people that they dont advise new LPNs to get their RN through Excelsior.

The reason it bugs me is that through local traditional programs, the generic RN students get less clinical experience in two years than we got in one year in LPN school. I have also observed that at OUR clinical site(Im not saying generally, this is only my experience), the ASN and BSN students would be seen sitting all day long in the nursing station or simply following a nurse while us LPN students were in there actually working day in and day out. I also have heard other nurses talking about how the new RNs nowdays are clueless and seem like they never went to school a day in their life. I think its because they do so much theory they dont get a good grasp of what the one on one patient care is all about.

There are very few duties RNs do that LPNs cant, its mostly just a matter of a little more education/theory. Most LPNs who go to traditional ASN programs have said they are suprised that there really isnt a whole lot more to it, they only go into most of the same things in more detail. And as far as clinicals, they are a breeze after already taking LPN clinicals. I dont see much of a difference between LPN to RN online and RN to BSN online. You have already received the foundation. You learn the most when u actually get out there and work as a nurse, not in school. There are new RN grads out there with much less clinical experience than LPN school gives, yet everyone says you need to gain experience before going to Excelsior. I know the CPNE will be more challenging, but I dont see it as impossible. Most generic ASN programs dont require experience for their LPN to RN bridge, and EC doesnt specify this either.

Can someone please offer me another point of view? I just cant understand why this is. Not trying to start an argument here, Im genuinely interested in other opinions.

[DYatesRN]

Why did you say all of those things?

"I did the program and can't go back to change that now, but certainly think LPN to RN programs really need a little more structure regarding clinical requirements that will sit well with all boards."

I did the program too and also cannot go back and change it. Had I known at the time I'd enrolled that all of these people out here would be questioning my fitness to be an RN and possible barring of licensure in certain states, I wouldn't have done it. My partner wants to be an RN and wanted to do it the EC way like I did but I showed him the hateful rhetoric on this very board and told him that he needed to do it the traditional way because I wouldn't want him subject to the same hostility.

I also would like to see LVN-RN programs that would sit well with all boards.

"While we may not find much info regarding data related to EC grads performance after licensure, I remain confident that the California board banned them partially on hospital complaints of sub-performance."

Why do you remain confident of this? Do you see what I mean by your speculation? What grounds do you have to be so confident in CA's almighty ruling? You find nothing on your own, yet blindly believe EC grads are substandard because the CA BON made a ruling.

"Maybe all of us don't plan or care to live or work in Texas."

Well I'd hope not with an attitude like that. I never said anything about everyone coming to Texas, nor would I want any northern, east or west coast attitude invading here. I moved here to avoid it.

"I am certainly glad that you promote the college across the board, that is welcome advertisement for them."

Did I not just say that I've had my own misgivings about EC in my most recent post? You have a lot of nerve saying that "perhaps you've misread posts" when it's clear that it's you who have misread them.

Pay attention to what somebody posts before you start reflecting your hateful attitude about your own life choices.

I'm trying real hard to be nice before the moderators decide that if anyone has an opinion worth talking about that they will shut the thread down for some "cooling off period."

I'm happy that you have an opinion and it's time we started talking about what really bothers people about EC grads instead of dancing around it.

I do not have a *hateful* attitude regarding my choices. I have said it before and will say it again. I chose EC because my children were priority over the college I was to attend. I understood well in advance before enrolling that these views were out there. I have also stated over and over that I am fortunate for the opprortunity that EC afforded me. My point on these boards over and over have been to promote informed choices before delving in. Some students here knew about various ruling prior to enrolling but enrolled anyway later to regret it. I knew. I think you are fast to judge people. You don't know me from Joe so don't cast feeling on me that I don't have. Without EC I would not have been able to stay at home and continue my same job while earning a degree--but hindsight tells me that traditional would have been the way to go. I am done exchanging posts with you...if one does not agree with you then you start getting nasty. Where is your proof that there are not cases of underprepared EC grads out there??? If you can't find it, it doesn't necessarily mean that it can't be found somewhere besides where you are looking. You are arguing the same thing from the opposite prespective--also with no "solid" proof. Something besides money motivated CA to make this decision that EC clinical was not enough...yes, I *speculate* from this statement of *not enough clinical time* that some unprepared EC nurses were making errors. I never said it was that they were "hurting and killing" patients, but belief it may be more to unable to preform to a primary standard (that could include time management, patient safety, basic knowledge on machines commonely used, etc). I obviously don't share your view so I will move on. Bickering this is rather silly in light of all the problems the world has today. If you are happy with your choices like I am, then I am happy for you! :)

[RN34TX]

I do not have a *hateful* attitude regarding my choices. I have said it before and will say it again. I chose EC because my children were priority over the college I was to attend. I understood well in advance before enrolling that these views were out there. I have also stated over and over that I am fortunate for the opprortunity that EC afforded me. My point on these boards over and over have been to promote informed choices before delving in. Some students here knew about various ruling prior to enrolling but enrolled anyway later to regret it. I knew. I think you are fast to judge people. You don't know me from Joe so don't cast feeling on me that I don't have. Without EC I would not have been able to stay at home and continue my same job while earning a degree--but hindsight tells me that traditional would have been the way to go. I am done exchanging posts with you...if one does not agree with you then you start getting nasty.

I apologize if I went too far in my posts, I really though that this was just an exchange of opinions and ideas here.

Your posts have been nothing short of angry and I can't figure out why.

We are debating about EC, it's not personal.

You don't owe me an explanation as to why you chose EC to get your RN and then turned around and did nothing short of bad mouthing them while you continue to collect an RN paycheck that you wouldn't have if it weren't for EC.

That's your choice.

I have a few negative things to say about them as well and have said that I agree with you on some of your views but I wouldn't be where I am today if it weren't for their program.

I'm concerned about everything that's going on as well and although I don't regret my decision, had I known about any of the negative feelings and board rulings over EC, I probably wouldn't have done it and would have stuck it out in a traditional transition program.

Have you been negatively affected by the recent events such as being denied licensure in a certain state or denied employment because of your EC degree?

If not, then I'm not getting what you're so upset about.

I'm sorry if I was that offensive but I thought that this was nothing short of an exchange of ideas and opinions, I didn't mean to make you feel defensive about why you chose EC for family or other personal reasons.

[DYatesRN]

I apologize if I went too far in my posts, I really though that this was just an exchange of opinions and ideas here.

Your posts have been nothing short of angry and I can't figure out why.

We are debating about EC, it's not personal.

You don't owe me an explanation as to why you chose EC to get your RN and then turned around and did nothing short of bad mouthing them while you continue to collect an RN paycheck that you wouldn't have if it weren't for EC.

That's your choice.

I have a few negative things to say about them as well and have said that I agree with you on some of your views but I wouldn't be where I am today if it weren't for their program.

I'm concerned about everything that's going on as well and although I don't regret my decision, had I known about any of the negative feelings and board rulings over EC, I probably wouldn't have done it and would have stuck it out in a traditional transition program.

Have you been negatively affected by the recent events such as being denied licensure in a certain state or denied employment because of your EC degree?

If not, then I'm not getting what you're so upset about.

I'm sorry if I was that offensive but I thought that this was nothing short of an exchange of ideas and opinions, I didn't mean to make you feel defensive about why you chose EC for family or other personal reasons.

I am not really defensive just disappointed in the college as well as the attitudes of some of the graduates. Nursing instructors in my local area feel that this program is one that flunked students go to for their degree. This was stated to me by a local instructor. The college needs to continue to buckle down on who they admit and try to work out some kind of clinical rotation to make the degree in better standing. Much damage was done to their integrity by the CA ruling as well as several of these companies recruiting individuals on the promise of a quick degree--this is what makes EC sound like a diploma mill. I don't not promote the college, as it can makes dreams come true if no other route is available, but I don't say go do it either--at least not until the college wins some integrity back...and I think they are trying. I have nothing further to post to you other than have a great day! :)

[txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN]

Texas Board of nurses told me the same thing when I called. That they were considering banning the program....Now this has been several months ago..

I recently read where Wyoming is now questioning EC. An EC student on another board mentioned that she called the Wyoming board and asked them about EC, their response was not to enroll at this time as Wyoming and several other boards have been in contact discussing the issue. Colorado is going to come down with a ruling I fear--I just got licensed there and when I called they said they are still allowing EC grads but things may very well change in the near future. I investigated it further by visiting the wyoming board web site and clicking on the July meeting. You can read where EC visited them giving info about the program.

[RN34TX]

I am not really defensive just disappointed in the college as well as the attitudes of some of the graduates. Nursing instructors in my local area feel that this program is one that flunked students go to for their degree. This was stated to me by a local instructor. The college needs to continue to buckle down on who they admit and try to work out some kind of clinical rotation to make the degree in better standing. Much damage was done to their integrity by the CA ruling as well as several of these companies recruiting individuals on the promise of a quick degree--this is what makes EC sound like a diploma mill. I don't not promote the college, as it can makes dreams come true if no other route is available, but I don't say go do it either--at least not until the college wins some integrity back...and I think they are trying. I have nothing further to post to you other than have a great day! :)

I agree with 99% of those statements.

I will lend advice and support to anyone who has already made up their mind that EC is the best choice for them but I don't encourage it for anyone who can feasibly go the traditional route in light of recent events and attitudes toward the program.

Had all of this been going on at the time I'd enrolled, I wouldn't have done it. In fact I was already graduated by the time I even caught wind of any of this stuff. The program was looked favorably upon in the 4 different states that I'd worked in up to that point and most of the RN's I'd worked with out east thought it was a waste of time to go through a traditional program if you were already an acute care LPN and encouraged me to do EC.

The only statement that I disagree with is your instructors comments about EC being the place for failed students to go to get their RN.

I would definitely say that I would have had a lot easier time going through clinical rotations getting my insulin checked off and giving baths and meds than going through that awful CPNE.

[RN34TX]

Texas Board of nurses told me the same thing when I called. That they were considering banning the program....Now this has been several months ago..

When I called they told me that they were only reviewing the program because of CA's decision. I called after their board meeting with EC and they told me that they had decided to not place any restrictions on EC grads and to continue licensure as usual and that it is no longer being reviewed.

Who knows.......

Colorado has been threatening it for going on two years now so who knows......

[HuggyPuglet]

I agree with 99% of those statements.

I will lend advice and support to anyone who has already made up their mind that EC is the best choice for them but I don't encourage it for anyone who can feasibly go the traditional route in light of recent events and attitudes toward the program.

Had all of this been going on at the time I'd enrolled, I wouldn't have done it. In fact I was already graduated by the time I even caught wind of any of this stuff. The program was looked favorably upon in the 4 different states that I'd worked in up to that point and most of the RN's I'd worked with out east thought it was a waste of time to go through a traditional program if you were already an acute care LPN and encouraged me to do EC.

The only statement that I disagree with is your instructors comments about EC being the place for failed students to go to get their RN.

I would definitely say that I would have had a lot easier time going through clinical rotations getting my insulin checked off and giving baths and meds than going through that awful CPNE.

Now I am more confused than ever. I guess it would be nice to hear from Excelsior grads themselves, and what their experiences have been.

I met with an Excelsior rep recently. Costs are plenty high, but then so are traditional colleges. Team that up with the costs of driving to various hospitals for clinical rotations, books and trying to balance a full time job (a NECESSARY full time job) with school, and EC seems (or seemed) the way to go.

Does ANYone here have the real story?

[Spazzy Nurse, RN]

Heyyoooo, EC grad here.

I met with an Excelsior rep recently.

Just make sure it's an actual EC rep and not a rep from a 3rd party who wants to sell you study systems. A lot of times they act like they are from EC itself.

Costs are plenty high, but then so are traditional colleges. Team that up with the costs of driving to various hospitals for clinical rotations, books and trying to balance a full time job (a NECESSARY full time job) with school, and EC seems (or seemed) the way to go.

Exactly what I thought. The cost was actually cheaper in the long run since I wouldn't have been able to work FT, have a family, and go to a traditional program FT.

[RN34TX]

Now I am more confused than ever. I guess it would be nice to hear from Excelsior grads themselves, and what their experiences have been.

I met with an Excelsior rep recently. Costs are plenty high, but then so are traditional colleges. Team that up with the costs of driving to various hospitals for clinical rotations, books and trying to balance a full time job (a NECESSARY full time job) with school, and EC seems (or seemed) the way to go.

Does ANYone here have the real story?

What real story are you looking for?

Everyone's career and life experiences are different but you definitely would do best to talk to EC grads in your area or at least your state and find out what their experiences have been.

For instance, if it weren't for the internet, I'd never had a clue that anyone had negative things to say about EC or that state boards were questioning the program because I've never had any of that in my nursing career.

I've never had trouble with getting a job and my co-workers and managers don't think of me differently or have anything negative to say about EC grads, and I've been a nurse in several different parts of the country and it was originally my RN co-workers who encouraged me to go through EC and not "waste my time" in some transition program.

In contrast, some of the postings here would lead me to believe that my license is about to get snatched from me or no one would ever hire me as an EC grad but that's definitely not reality as a nurse anywhere I've worked.

Then the same people will follow up with "Well maybe it's not reality in your state today but eventually they will stop licensing EC grads" as if CA is some catalyst of things to come.

I'm happy with the choice I made and encourage anyone who really can't realistically complete a full time transition program and support themselves and/or family to go for EC but for anyone who can do a traditional program, I say do it to avoid possible future trouble such as what happened in Kansas and those poor students and grads stuck in the middle for a period of time.

The most important thing to keep in mind is that either choice is definitely better than staying an LPN/LVN, even if you had to work as an RN in a different state than where you are now because it is literally the same job but better paying with more growth potential and career options.

If your state decided to not allow EC grads, you owe it to yourself and your family to move somewhere where better opportunities are available as an RN.

If in the future multiple states stopped allowing EC grads and I had to pack up and move to the last state allowing me to work as an RN I'd do it in a second.

I'd leave nursing all together before I'd ever again work for LPN/LVN wages and be stuck with only Med/surg or LTC career options. No way.

[HuggyPuglet]

Thank you all for your replies. You have been very helpful! :)

What real story are you looking for?

Everyone's career and life experiences are different but you definitely would do best to talk to EC grads in your area or at least your state and find out what their experiences have been.

For instance, if it weren't for the internet, I'd never had a clue that anyone had negative things to say about EC or that state boards were questioning the program because I've never had any of that in my nursing career.

I've never had trouble with getting a job and my co-workers and managers don't think of me differently or have anything negative to say about EC grads, and I've been a nurse in several different parts of the country and it was originally my RN co-workers who encouraged me to go through EC and not "waste my time" in some transition program.

In contrast, some of the postings here would lead me to believe that my license is about to get snatched from me or no one would ever hire me as an EC grad but that's definitely not reality as a nurse anywhere I've worked.

Then the same people will follow up with "Well maybe it's not reality in your state today but eventually they will stop licensing EC grads" as if CA is some catalyst of things to come.

I'm happy with the choice I made and encourage anyone who really can't realistically complete a full time transition program and support themselves and/or family to go for EC but for anyone who can do a traditional program, I say do it to avoid possible future trouble such as what happened in Kansas and those poor students and grads stuck in the middle for a period of time.

The most important thing to keep in mind is that either choice is definitely better than staying an LPN/LVN, even if you had to work as an RN in a different state than where you are now because it is literally the same job but better paying with more growth potential and career options.

If your state decided to not allow EC grads, you owe it to yourself and your family to move somewhere where better opportunities are available as an RN.

If in the future multiple states stopped allowing EC grads and I had to pack up and move to the last state allowing me to work as an RN I'd do it in a second.

I'd leave nursing all together before I'd ever again work for LPN/LVN wages and be stuck with only Med/surg or LTC career options. No way.

[DutchgirlRN, ASN, RN]

I was an LPN for 26 years before going through EC. I graduated 4 years ago. I feel I got a good education. The CPNE was very strict. I don't have a problem with LPN going through EC. They used to take CNT's also and I think that was so wrong. I do think you should have some floor experience before signing up with EC. In what states are they not hiring EC grads? I hadn't heard about this.

[luvanurse41903]

Help!!! I'm so confused!!!! I signed with the Chancellor's program for LPN to RN 5 yrs ago. Due to divorce, moving cross country, remarrying, and work, I have never actually started the program, it's all paid for. I've contacted them and they say I can still go through they're program...that's cool. Are ya'll saying that after I complete their program that I then have to go through EC program too, or can I take the CPNE? I am soooooooo ready to get my RN as LPN opportunities are becoming very limited here in NC. Would appreciate any feedback.