New LPNs going to EC....why not?

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Hey everyone,

Im a soon to be new LPN (graduating in a week thank goodness!) and I have read in several threads and heard from many people that they dont advise new LPNs to get their RN through Excelsior.

The reason it bugs me is that through local traditional programs, the generic RN students get less clinical experience in two years than we got in one year in LPN school. I have also observed that at OUR clinical site(Im not saying generally, this is only my experience), the ASN and BSN students would be seen sitting all day long in the nursing station or simply following a nurse while us LPN students were in there actually working day in and day out. I also have heard other nurses talking about how the new RNs nowdays are clueless and seem like they never went to school a day in their life. I think its because they do so much theory they dont get a good grasp of what the one on one patient care is all about.

There are very few duties RNs do that LPNs cant, its mostly just a matter of a little more education/theory. Most LPNs who go to traditional ASN programs have said they are suprised that there really isnt a whole lot more to it, they only go into most of the same things in more detail. And as far as clinicals, they are a breeze after already taking LPN clinicals. I dont see much of a difference between LPN to RN online and RN to BSN online. You have already received the foundation. You learn the most when u actually get out there and work as a nurse, not in school. There are new RN grads out there with much less clinical experience than LPN school gives, yet everyone says you need to gain experience before going to Excelsior. I know the CPNE will be more challenging, but I dont see it as impossible. Most generic ASN programs dont require experience for their LPN to RN bridge, and EC doesnt specify this either.

Can someone please offer me another point of view? I just cant understand why this is. Not trying to start an argument here, Im genuinely interested in other opinions.

Are you aware that NC 2 can be waived if you completed an NLN accredited program w/ a B or higher average within the last 5 years?

Ok..dumb question here...but what's an NLN program?

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Tele, Peds, LDRP.

NLN is national league of nursing

enjoying the input, keep it coming

PS my last day of LPN school is Friday and Im SOOO EXCITED!

I need a rest for at least a few months anyway so that will give me some time to make up my mind what is right for me. One thing impacting my decision will be where I get a job....if its in a clinical setting versus home health then Id be more likely to go with EC.

Also, I like the explanation of evaluator versus instructor...makes perfect sense. The traditional program wouldnt be so hard, while with EC Id surely be sweating bullets. Just thinking of how I felt with my clinical instructors watching over my shoulder in the beginning of LPN school gives me chills! lol

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NLN is national league of nursing

enjoying the input, keep it coming

PS my last day of LPN school is Friday and Im SOOO EXCITED!

I need a rest for at least a few months anyway so that will give me some time to make up my mind what is right for me. One thing impacting my decision will be where I get a job....if its in a clinical setting versus home health then Id be more likely to go with EC.

Also, I like the explanation of evaluator versus instructor...makes perfect sense. The traditional program wouldnt be so hard, while with EC Id surely be sweating bullets. Just thinking of how I felt with my clinical instructors watching over my shoulder in the beginning of LPN school gives me chills! lol

You are smart to consider all these things. Several times during my EC studies, I wished I had attended a traditional program. This was especially true during the CPNE. Old fashioned clinicals would have been cake compared to that stress.

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Specializes in LTC, Hospice, Case Management.

I agree with much if not all of what RN34TX stated. You really need a year or two minimum of LPN experience to learn and to gain confidence in yourself and your judgement - you will definiately fail the CPNE without this! My personal example during CPNE.. I got a 40 something male w/ 1 day post op appendectomy and had to do abd. assessment. I had already established this guy was a whimp (pardon my being unpolitical correctness) and was doing his damndest to rattle what he perceived to a be a nursing student - (when doing his radial pulse early in assessment told the CE that my holding his wrist made him nauseated, moaning/groaning like I had killed him). Imagine having to palapate this guys abdomin :uhoh3: . Anyways, I started with upper left quad and stated to pt and CE that i am GENTLY palpating - as soon as I touched him he jumped like I had punched him in the gut. I stopped, calmly explained to the CE and pt that I would not continue with palpation as I felt this would cause pt undue pain and (emotional)distress, CE immediately agreed and we moved on. I think if I was a brand new nurse I'm almost sure I would have just kept going because that's what i was "suppose" to do. Experience says quit - the guy will obviously complain of pain anywhere I touch and the closer I get to surgical site the more tramatic it will be for him - nothing to to gain by continuing. My point is I didn't let this patient rattle me (had LOTS OF UNCOOPERATIVE PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS ) and I didn't let the situation rattle me either. You just can't react to this when your new. Traditional schools help to teach you this, but with EC - you'd better already have it.

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I agree with much if not all of what RN34TX stated. You really need a year or two minimum of LPN experience to learn and to gain confidence in yourself and your judgement - you will definiately fail the CPNE without this! My personal example during CPNE.. I got a 40 something male w/ 1 day post op appendectomy and had to do abd. assessment. I had already established this guy was a whimp (pardon my being unpolitical correctness) and was doing his damndest to rattle what he perceived to a be a nursing student - (when doing his radial pulse early in assessment told the CE that my holding his wrist made him nauseated, moaning/groaning like I had killed him). Imagine having to palapate this guys abdomin :uhoh3: . Anyways, I started with upper left quad and stated to pt and CE that i am GENTLY palpating - as soon as I touched him he jumped like I had punched him in the gut. I stopped, calmly explained to the CE and pt that I would not continue with palpation as I felt this would cause pt undue pain and (emotional)distress, CE immediately agreed and we moved on. I think if I was a brand new nurse I'm almost sure I would have just kept going because that's what i was "suppose" to do. Experience says quit - the guy will obviously complain of pain anywhere I touch and the closer I get to surgical site the more tramatic it will be for him - nothing to to gain by continuing. My point is I didn't let this patient rattle me (had LOTS OF UNCOOPERATIVE PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS ) and I didn't let the situation rattle me either. You just can't react to this when your new. Traditional schools help to teach you this, but with EC - you'd better already have it.

I disagree with the assumption that you need to be an expiernced LPN to pass the CPNE. I completed one year of traditional nursing school...got pregnant...oops...decided to finish my RN degree with EC after my baby was born. I was only a CMA and CNA going into nursing school. Passed the CPNE...tested with four long time experienced LPN's...two failed....on pretty basic aspects of care. There is not a high pass rate for EC students for the CPNE. I really think it up to the individual and how much time and determination one puts into preparing for it. Just my opinion :)

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In my post, the issue was not if one could *pass* the CPNE, but rather that one could hit the real floor and perform at a new grad RN level. While there are certainly exceptions to everything, I find it very difficult to believe that most brand new LPN's could do this. It takes time to become acclimated to your job, gain confidence, and gain a sense of making sound clinical judgements using critical thinking. There are things, and most things for that matter, that you can only gain through work and experience. I personally feel that EC has been getting a bad rep because so many people entered the program without enough clinical experience, hit the real world, and were basically an accident waiting to happen. They have tightened up on admissions but the next thing they need to do is require so many years experience before admit. This is a program that is based on what you already know and gives you credit for some of it...a new grad LPN, in my opinion, just doesn't have enough experience. You can pass exams sure--that's not the point--but can you function at the level of a new grad RN? Some can but most not....

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This is a program that is based on what you already know and gives you credit for some of it...a new grad LPN, in my opinion, just doesn't have enough experience. You can pass exams sure--that's not the point--but can you function at the level of a new grad RN? Some can but most not....

I'm not too sure on myself about a lot of things, but I am certain a new grad LPN, CMA or CNA is not going to be competent, even though they have passed tests and a clinical, to practice as a registered nurse. I know many have done it, but I have said this before, passing the CPNE does not make a person competent to be a nurse. California aparently feels the same way, as do a number of other states. EC graduates have now been banned from the state as a result of CNA's and CMA's a surgical techs with no nursing experience going through Excelsior's program and causing a lot of problems. This ruined it for everyone else, and EC can blame no one but themselves. The CPNE is a very structured and basic test, you study hard enough you will pass, likely the LPN's who failed did not fail from inexperience but were either unprepared or it or the stress level was more than they could handle at the time (or both).

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Specializes in Emergency, Family Practice, Occ. Health.

It been my experience that nurses that just graduated from a traditional RN program need at least a good 6 months before they are ready to be on their own without an experienced nurse to mentor them. I would be willing to guess also that most of the RNs from traditional programs couldn't pass the CPNE any better than the EC grads. The reason CA doesn't accept the EC grads is purely political. Nurses tend to eat their young and can't accept change. Remember that a great number of nurses out there have a certificate that they got while doing mostly CNA tasks in a hospital based nursing school. They got their RN and then learned to do the job. They had very little theory and didn't know why they did what they did but they knew HOW to do it. They decided this wasn't good enough and decided to require theory at the college level.

I just hope that everyone keeps there heads up and keeps on and remember that as long as you have a license, a pulse, and are willing to learn you will get the job you dream of and be darn good at it!

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I'm not too sure on myself about a lot of things, but I am certain a new grad LPN, CMA or CNA is not going to be competent, even though they have passed tests and a clinical, to practice as a registered nurse. I know many have done it, but I have said this before, passing the CPNE does not make a person competent to be a nurse. California aparently feels the same way, as do a number of other states. EC graduates have now been banned from the state as a result of CNA's and CMA's a surgical techs with no nursing experience going through Excelsior's program and causing a lot of problems. This ruined it for everyone else, and EC can blame no one but themselves. The CPNE is a very structured and basic test, you study hard enough you will pass, likely the LPN's who failed did not fail from inexperience but were either unprepared or it or the stress level was more than they could handle at the time (or both).

You and I are in agreement on the need for LPNs to have experience before attending EC. What I don't understand is why CA didn't just do what WA, KS, and OK have done and require some precepted hours as a GN. It seems they wanted to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

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I'm not too sure on myself about a lot of things, but I am certain a new grad LPN, CMA or CNA is not going to be competent, even though they have passed tests and a clinical, to practice as a registered nurse. I know many have done it, but I have said this before, passing the CPNE does not make a person competent to be a nurse. California aparently feels the same way, as do a number of other states. EC graduates have now been banned from the state as a result of CNA's and CMA's a surgical techs with no nursing experience going through Excelsior's program and causing a lot of problems. This ruined it for everyone else, and EC can blame no one but themselves. The CPNE is a very structured and basic test, you study hard enough you will pass, likely the LPN's who failed did not fail from inexperience but were either unprepared or it or the stress level was more than they could handle at the time (or both).

That's pure speculation at best.

The thing to keep in mind is that these discussions always seem to prompt people to say "I know this new BSN graduate from a traditional program" or

"I know an EC graduate" who started at their hospital and tells tons of stories about how they didn't know what they were doing, made many mistakes, etc. and they will immediately attribute this as a result of the program they attended rather than individual circumstances and differences to back up their claim that one program is better or more acceptable than the other.

The truth is that all schools will always graduate both highly competent and eager to learn grads as well as those who the rest of us wonder how they ever got through nursing school to begin with because they are so bad.

This is why everyone has stories about bad new nurses from every type of program. People always have and always will slip through the cracks regardless of how much theory or clinical they've received in their programs or how difficult they make licensing exams to pass.

I agree with being unprepared or nerves getting the best of you (as my nerves almost caused my own failure) as a big cause of failure but inexperience can also cause it so it is a lot of speculation.

As far as "EC graduates have now been banned from the state as a result of CNA's and CMA's a surgical techs with no nursing experience going through Excelsior's program and causing a lot of problems"

As much as I've heard the general comments like that out there, and I've posted it myself several times here asking if anyone has ever supervised, precepted, or even worked alongside EC grads and had problems with their performance, etc. and although people keep saying that they've "caused problems", only one account has ever been posted here by someone who had actual first hand experience with them and had negative things to say.

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Specializes in Mental Health, MI/CD, Neurology.
when doing his radial pulse early in assessment told the CE that my holding his wrist made him nauseated, moaning/groaning like I had killed him

:rotfl: Sorry to go off topic but this cracked me up. I think a lot of us get pain in the a$$ patients....... I had one who pretended not to speak English and squeezed her eyes shut while I was trying to look at her pupils.

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Supposedly, California has more than anecdotal evidence of the incompetence of nonLPNs/non paramedics who slipped through the cracks, and apparently it was enough to prompt them to get rid of the "problem." I do agree this is throwing the baby out with the bath water.

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