New Grad Orientation Contracts

[Kaiyas]

I've seen older posts on this site about New Grad Orientation Contracts that require new nurses to stay on their unit for a set amount of time (up to 2 years) or else be forced to pay back orientation costs to the facility. Most of those posts told new grads to run as fast as they could away from the facility.

However, a lot of the places I've applied to all have those contracts. Is this becoming more common?

What happened to sign on bonuses in order to retain nurses?

To clarify, they require you to sign a "new grad residency" contract, which is 8-12 weeks of orientation. If you pass their orientation period you are required to work on that unit for 2 years (and in some cases required to stay at the facility for an additional year). Failure to do so, as stated in the contract, requires the nurse to pay back orientation costs of 10,000 dollars, which is pro-rated down slightly the longer you stay.

I understand that nurse retention is important, but this seems threatening and morale crushing. I completely understand having to sign a contract to pay back a sign-on bonus if you leave early, but having to "pay" for my orientation seems a little ridiculous. It makes me wonder what's wrong with the facility that would make nurses want to leave so badly that HR thought this contract was the only way to keep nurses working there.

Should I follow the older posts advice of running from these facilities or do I bite the bullet and just accept that this is what I have to do in order to get experience?

[Wuzzie]

I am stunned by the pervasiveness of the "suck it up, you're not valuable" attitude on this board.

I don't recall anyone here telling someone to suck it up when they are in a bad environment. Nor have I ever witnessed a member telling another that they have no value. Hyperbole reduces credibility. I also don't believe contracts, in general, are evil. As long as they are beneficial to both parties that is. The onus is on the person being presented the contract to determine if it's right or wrong for them. If they know they are using a job as a stepping stone and plan to bounce at the first opportunity then they really shouldn't sign the contract should they? I have little sympathy for those in that situation. On the other hand we all know that life sometimes gets in the way of our plans and sometimes we have to do things that might look a little shady from the outside. Unexpected moves, health crises, new babies. These things happen but these are the people that get a pass in my book. I expect we are going to fundamentally disagree on my next point but is it so wrong for an employer to expect a return on their investment? I certainly don't mean indentured servitude but a year of service in return for training?

You're right. Most nurses are good-hearted people. But just like everything else it's the ones who screw the system that make it bad for others.

[JKL33]

So tell me, do you think all contracts are just a means for "the man" to keep the people down? Because they're everywhere, not just in nursing.

That question broadens this discussion, I think.

No, all contracts probably don't represent a struggle against "the man," but other industries are certainly more used to both parties heavily negotiating contracts than nursing is, and I think that matters in this discussion.

By the time a new nurse is staring at a contract, s/he has been through the wringer and this is "the thing" standing in the way of actually getting on with the work one was trained to do. Our educational process makes sure that we understand our all-encompassing, massive ethical duty to patients; we are basically taught to think of ourselves in terms of our value to patients, employers, and society. Even the self-care provisions in the CoE are tied directly to the fact that giving a crap about ourselves helps the profession! VERY few of our educational conversations have to do with us as human beings who also deserve what we are to give to everyone else. I understand all of this is kind of a conversation for another day, but I bring it up because I think it has legitimate bearing here.

So you have a situation where someone isn't expected to negotiate a contract. I'm pretty confident that if someone came here and inquired about really getting in there and negotiating one of these new grad contracts they would either be torn to pieces, laughed at, mocked, and/or would essentially be told they have nothing to barter (no standing from which to ask for anything at all) - which is absolutely not true even if one is a complete novice. Nurses are needed to care for patients!!

At some point there is just a discrepancy when employers are wringing their hands about the nursing shortage while this contract thing is going on. I can't imagine a set-up more brilliant than proclaiming that experienced nurses suck, new nurses suck too, and there is a nursing shortage but we need contracts because the shortage is due to the fact that all nurses suck (various proofs of such to be made up on the fly).

I don't think I have a problem with contracts per se, only ones where you aren't expected to negotiate so that in effect it is really a document that protects one party's interests, not exactly a mutually-beneficial business contract.

I'm sure someone will come along to say the effect of, "if you don't like it, go somewhere else." That's an option until it's not a very viable option any more, which is why I argue this issue based on the idea that I don't think new grad nursing contracts in their present forms are good for nursing overall.

I wholeheartedly agree with you about the thread posted the other day. That isn't how I was raised AT ALL. Loyalty/commitment are important to me - but as I navigate through life a little bit, I've decided that it must be mutual and is not something to which only one party can legitimately be held.

[Wuzzie]

I completely agree on the need for mutuality (is that even a word?) and I wouldn't bat an eye if a new grad wanted to negotiate this sort of contract or at least have an attorney look at it. But I still don't think it's wrong for an employer to expect a return on their investment. If I pay for something I want something out of it.

[JKL33]

I will add one more comment specifically about the other thread to which you refer - my personal vantage point would suggest that legitimate feelings of desperation (it's impossible to care for patients the way I know I should/the way I was taught, etc.) are way more common so far in history, than people leaving a position because, although this one is good, that one is better and since I'm all about me, I'm leaving.

We've had a new-ish nurse here or there where I watched this in slow-mo. They were excellent orientees (and my standard is high), very personable and capable. Lovely people whom I was sad to see go. They kept a smile on their face but ultimately decided to position themselves where the emotional give-and-take was a bit more even. I think this is really very common, and I think it has a LOT to do with shortages where they exist. There are lots of RNs out there. Where are they? Doing something where the give-and-take isn't so darn one-sided. I think that's "the" factor that is the underpinning of shortages, contracts, attrition....all of it.

[Wuzzie]

I will add one more comment specifically about the other thread to which you refer - my personal vantage point would suggest that legitimate feelings of desperation (it's impossible to care for patients the way I know I should/the way I was taught, etc.) are way more common so far in history, than people leaving a position because, although this one is good, that one is better and since I'm all about me, I'm leaving.

I think what's happening is that it used to be a rare thing for people to have the mind-set in your last sentence but it is becoming more and more prevalent. We've seen it here. I don't think anybody advocates for staying in a job that is so horrible as to cause emotional damage or legal risks, I certainly don't, but to drop a perfectly fine job because something that appears better comes along just doesn't sit well with me. It seems that we've gone down the "I"m going to screw you before you screw me" rabbit hole and now we are seeing the consequences.

[Susie2310]

By the time a new nurse is staring at a contract, s/he has been through the wringer and this is "the thing" standing in the way of actually getting on with the work one was trained to do. Our educational process makes sure that we understand our all-encompassing, massive ethical duty to patients; we are basically taught to think of ourselves in terms of our value to patients, employers, and society. Even the self-care provisions in the CoE are tied directly to the fact that giving a crap about ourselves helps the profession! VERY few of our educational conversations have to do with us as human beings who also deserve what we are to give to everyone else. I understand all of this is kind of a conversation for another day, but I bring it up because I think it has legitimate bearing here.

So you have a situation where someone isn't expected to negotiate a contract. I'm pretty confident that if someone came here and inquired about really getting in there and negotiating one of these new grad contracts they would either be torn to pieces, laughed at, mocked, and/or would essentially be told they have nothing to barter (no standing from which to ask for anything at all) - which is absolutely not true even if one is a complete novice. Nurses are needed to care for patients!!

I can't agree with you that by the time a new grad is looking at a contract he/she has been through the wringer. If you mean that he/she has endured nursing school and possibly a significant amount of debt, I agree with that, but there's a good chance he/she hasn't learned very much at all about actual hands-on patient care or critical thinking as applied to patient care during nursing school, as actual hands-on clinical patient care in student hospital clinical rotations is apparently not being taught in much depth in a number of programs now. It seems that some people don't even know what the Nursing Process is, let alone how to use it. New grads have a license, but are often not prepared to begin practice even as a novice nurse, and this is the fault of some of the nursing schools, not the facilities, who expect to hire a new grad licensed nurse who has at least been trained to function as a novice nurse.

We often read on here of new grads having to receive long orientations because they are so ill prepared to function providing even basic patient care at a beginning level. New grads as a group need a lot of training and support that has to be provided by their employer. I don't see that it is inappropriate for an employer to wish to receive a return on their investment in providing this training by requiring a commitment to being employed at the facility for a year or two, with a financial penalty for breaking the commitment. A new grad is providing their license, their good will, and their labor, but they are not providing much in the way of nursing knowledge or competence (yet).

On the subject of ethics, I'm not sure that a number of nurses are even aware of their ethical duties to patients. I often don't see this reflected in the patient care or attitudes towards patients/patients' families practicing nurses provide, and on this forum new nurses and often not so new nurses frequently seem to be oblivious of nurses' professional responsibilities, let alone ethical duties. These were definitely things that were inculcated into us when I was a student, but I have concluded that this teaching doesn't happen so much now. I can't see nurses as a group being profoundly affected by, let alone burdened, by their ethical responsibilities.

[City-Girl]

You could try running it past an attorney to get a good feel of whether its actually a binding legal contract. It sounds a bit like indentured servitude and I have to wonder why its so bad that they would require a commitment to stay, which is something you should consider before taking a job there. With that said, it's bad form to work at a job for less than 1 year and future potential employers would certainly take note of a job listing on a resume if it was less than 1 year, which could call into question your level of commitment.

[tara07733]

I will never in a million years believe that hospitals have decided to recruit new grads out of the goodness of their hearts. They have chosen this model of "talent acquisition" because they have assessed it to be more advantageous than trying to hire/retain experienced nurses or newer nurses that they themselves have trained. But they failed to foresee that new grads/newer nurses would find their corporate MOs just as unpalatable as experienced nurses and then not stay around. Oops.

Cry me a river.

Are the details of these contracts enumerated so that the new grad can evaluate whether the contract is being honored? I doubt it. Whether the contract is honored or not is only for the corporation to decide. The orientee is guaranteed nothing other than a job with the opportunity to be oriented in whatever manner the corporation sees fit. They take no accountability for toxic cultures, shortened orientations due to poor staffing, or patient loads that leave no time for teaching and learning - all things that may occur in increased likelihood in settings were contracts are the only retention tool anyone is willing to consider.

I'm thankful to have been a novice when this was not a common way of doing business with nurses. From my vantage point there is entitlement involved alright, but not on the part of tens of thousands of individual new nurses. Kind of like the adage about how if you think everyone else is a ________, maybe you're actually the _______?

Preach!!! I wholeheartedly agree.

[lilyann4356]

Of course employers should expect a return on investment. That is just good business. I just don't think it's right we allow them to demand it from employees if something doesn't work out. I even think it is reasonable to sign a contract agreeing to work for a set number of years, but a more reasonable consequence to quitting would be ineligibility for rehire or not getting a reference from the employer. I think it is scary to be at the mercy of an organization making an exception for you in extenuating circumstances like a health or family crisis.

I like the pervious poster's idea of thinking of it as a bonus and putting away money gradually as you work in case something arises. However, if something happens early on in the contact, it seems you would be in a pretty bad position.

[lilyann4356]

I don't think I have a problem with contracts per se, only ones where you aren't expected to negotiate so that in effect it is really a document that protects one party's interests, not exactly a mutually-beneficial business contract.

Yes, this is so true!

[Wuzzie]

I even think it is reasonable to sign a contract agreeing to work for a set number of years, but a more reasonable consequence to quitting would be ineligibility for rehire or not getting a reference from the employer.

You think that is better than paying a sum of money? Not being eligible for rehire or no reference from employer could significantly impact a person's ability to get a job! That could end up being much more costly then the original fine.

[lilyann4356]

oh, I don't know the answer. I assumed those things were also included in these contracts. Specifics of contracts is less important. I just want nurses to feel empowered and valuable, because they are valuable. I don't want new grads to feel powerless and like they have to sign contracts that protect only the employers interests because they need that first job. We have a duty to serve patients, I just think we should be careful about the mentality of extending that duty to include the corporations that employ us.