Never understood nursing

Nurses General Nursing

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I know this is my first post on your forum, and I am a guest here. But I hopefully can get some answers to a problem that has seemed to plague me since I started practicing in medicine. I am hoping that you will be honest enough to tell me why things have gotten to where they are. And by the way, my wife is an EM nurse. That is how we met.

I started in emergency medicine 10 years ago in NY. I spent 10 years prior in EMS, and also did a residency in EM for two years after graduating PA school. I have a fairly decent background. Right out of school, I worked in 4 EDs. One hospital in Brooklyn, on my first day, the charge nurse and two others came up to me and said "You are the new PA, let's get one thing straight, we have 4 year degrees, you have a 4 year degree, you are no better than us. You need labs drawn, x-rays put in, IV started, you do them yourself. It's bad enough we have to do them for the doctors, we are certainly not going to do them for you". They were called into the ED directors office the next day. They brought the union who threatened to have the whole hospital walk out if the director had anything to say to the nurses. Then at another hospital in NY, I had nurses tell me and the docs what procedure they would "allow us" to perform on our patients. They ripped up my prescriptions right in front of me and told me when they would not "allow me" to give out narcotics. In Virginia, large level 1 trauma center, they refused to do UAs on most patients. They didn't feel the test to be important. I had them tell me if my UA was so important, "are your legs broke, why can't you get it from the patient and walk it down to the lab?" They played passive aggressive for years, not giving my cardiac patients nitro or morphine for up to 2 hours consistently, answering "I heard you, put the chart in the rack and I will get to it when I get to it". Of course they refused to allow me access to the Pyxis to get the meds myself. I had them yell at me whe I wrote parameters for Cardazem for BP. They told me I was to assume ALL nurses know parameters and how dare I question their knowledge. They then told me they will question all of my orders for at least one year until I prove myself to them. That seemed to be a reoccurring theme in most ED.

I have war stories that I could go on for at least 10 pages. I have just touched the tip of the iceberg. So after almost 10 years of this and 10 emergency departments, I got to the point that I started to hate nurses in general, and thought that this is what I could expect for the rest of my career. Then of all places, I came to Las Vegas. I asked about the nurses here. I was told the same as all of my other hospitals (no one ever tells you how bad things really are as you would never take on a new position there if you knew). But to my surprise, it has been the best experience I have ever had. They are so nice, so professional. There are no power struggles. We all work together. What a difference when I get up every day to come to work.

So what gives? I have never seen a profession where so many are hateful, unprofessional, uncaring about their responsibilities (patients) and could care less about how little they are performing their jobs. This did not appear to be the minority in any of the places I had previously worked. Have I just had the bad luck to have picked 8 out of 10 of some of the worst places?

He might have brought it against himself with something that he did or said but can you say 100% for sure, not one of us was there. So for you to say that he brought it against himeself would be a generalization. I have seen nurses disrespect someone simply because they do not "like" the person for whatever reason. Just because it is something that you have not seen, even with all your years of experience,does not mean it does not exist. I am not saying he is telling the truth because I know all stories have three sides. All I am saying is why attack him since that is what he expects from nurses anyway. Why give him the benefit if he is lying!

Read the last sentence again: "I can't help but think that he brought that part on himself."

You're right, we weren't there. I never said that this is definitely what happened. And I have seen nurses disrespect someone because of instant dislike too, but not a group of nurses at the same time.

Specializes in Hospice, ED, Med/Surg, Peds, Geriatrics.

Been reading these forums for several years but hardly ever post because the answers are always so good already!!

First off, let me say to Sunshine Sweetheart that I find your post very refreshing. Keep up your positive, upbeat and awesome attitude. Your patients and employers will be very lucky to have you!!!

I felt compelled to jump into this one though; I've seen many EDs both as a medic bringing them in and the nurse receiving them. From my humble perspective, there seems to be "one" cranky type in every ED. Now, this may not be the correct behavior but I personally have learned to steer clear and sweet talk the heck of that person. Sometimes, they can be infectious and the whole staff will have that sort of attitude for a shift or two and then other times, if you have a really upbeat charge person or something like that, the "negative nancy" is pretty ineffective.

What I've learned in nursing is that it's really tough out there; we all put on our scrubs each day meaning to do well that shift. No one means to go to work and create havoc. Tolerance, patience, boldness to call each other on yucky behavior, and a general good attitude can get most of us through even the worst of shifts. Oh yeah, some pizza and diet coke!!!

Thanks for tolerating me as a very new poster!!

Specializes in ICU, Tele, Dialysis.

Hi eveybody. My cousin was a PA out on the east coast, and she has had some very similar stories. I used to get phone calls from her all the time. She has since come to the midwest and loves it, no further problems, but the parts about the nurses stating you have to prove yourself, she had that same thing happen. Maybe it's some kind of regional/cultural thing. I've gots lots of family out east and the culture is certainly different than it is here in the midwest. Just one possibility.

Specializes in CVICU.
Read the last sentence again: "I can't help but think that he brought that part on himself."

You're right, we weren't there. I never said that this is definitely what happened. And I have seen nurses disrespect someone because of instant dislike too, but not a group of nurses at the same time.

I do apologize if I got your words mixed up and I did not mean to offend you if I did! I just think that we should not accuse the poster of lying, as some others have, because as I said before we are feeding into his perceptions. I do like the fact that some of the other posters have asked the OP what can they do to change his perception and try to help him understand that nursing as a whole is not like that. If he is telling the truth then those nurses do need to be "talked" to. Regardless of how a person may treat you the patient should not suffer because of it. You do what you can do for the patient and deal with the problem when time premits. If he is lying then he has something against nurses and what a better way to get them fired up than to post on the nursing forum and sit back and laugh.

soo.. we've all been exchanging ideas, sharing stories, expressing opinions and clarifying details for a few days now, so i think it's time to ask a big question.. do you understand nurses yet? have we actually managed to explain anything or clear up any confusion?

i ask, because the thread seems to be going in circles a little, and i don't really know if we're getting anywhere.

if not, perhaps you'd tell us what you still don't understand, so that we can work on un-confusing you.

and yes, for those of you paying attention, after saying i wasn't going to come back, i noticed a surge in activity and i got sucked right back in. :imbar

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bless

Specializes in Psych.
Digging under the surface here, it sounds like you are a bit surprised that nurses actually have so much decision making power in the running of hospitals? Unlike the television shows ER and Grey's Anatomy where it is portrayed over and over that the doctors or some medical management are in direct charge of nursing, nursing is it's own self-governing professional body with just as much input as to how things run as the medical side is. Yea, nurses are COO's. Nursing is autonomous and collaborates with other disciplines for a common outcome - which should be, but is not always - delivering safe, cost-effective patient care (this is quite simplified).

Although you are stating that some nurses flat out refused to carry out orders, it is not at all unusual for an RN to vociferously question orders from anyone. We do have the knowledge and experience to know what might be better for a particular situation. It is against our professional code of ethics to not speak up when we feel a situation warrants.

Like the title of your thread, I think you really don't understand nursing. The behaviors of some who you've encountered are absolutely unacceptable, but I think you also need to accept that nurses are part of your team. Just because they may question orders does not mean they are steeping out of line or out of their scope.

Gotta cut this short - gotta go.

This is about recognition and respect. Have you talked about this with your RN wife? I'd be curious to know what she thinks.

:idea: Thank you for a well-written and realistic reply:idea:

OP, I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences but we're not all bad. I would say that a vast majority of us are very good at what we do and we're professional. I personally would never dream of treating ANYONE like that where I work. In my short career as a nurse thus far, I've met a few bad apples that really manage to stink up a whole floor. Usually, they're burnt out and tired but that gives no one an excuse to act unprofessionally and just plain cruel. Don't let the bad apples you've met sour your view of nursing as a whole. If you're ever out here in Philly, I'm sure you'll find the nurses are pretty cool.

And speaking of trolls......have you graduated from nursing school yet?

excuse me for not setting up my profile yet it was set to the default settings. i didnt realize id be crucified if i didnt do that right away

Specializes in A myriad of specialties.

Quoted by PACPhD: "They played passive aggressive for years, not giving my cardiac patients nitro or morphine for up to 2 hours consistently, answering "I heard you, put the chart in the rack and I will get to it when I get to it". Of course they refused to allow me access to the Pyxis to get the meds myself. "

How very unfortunate for you to have been treated so rudely and unprofessionally by so many nurses! No wonder you question if this is the norm. Yes, I think you've just had bad luck! A few(in your case, numerous)bad apples can(and guaranteed will) spoil the whole cart! Nurses who've refused to treat pts according to your orders should've been written up. Granted, one of our responsibilities is to "question the MD/PA" for clarification issues. The situations that you describe go beyond that. To refuse to give nitro or morphine to your pts for up to 2 hrs is neglect in my opinion.

I'm happy to hear that you finally found a great place of employment with professionals/equals; it sounds well deserved.

Specializes in Emergency.

OP, I've seen good and bad nurses and medical staff in equal amounts. The stories you relate are not unique to the nursing profession. As to your statement that you don't understand nursing, I agree with you. In reading your posts you sound to me like you think you are superior to nurses, am I right about this? Honestly? It is a sad commentary that nurses and medical staff can work side by side for years and never really understand each other. If you truly want to understand nurses then ask us some questions!

Specializes in OR.

The reason why I sounded the troll alert was that the OP has to have at least some intelligence to have graduated from PA school. Therefore, I have a really difficult time believing that he thinks that the vast majority of nurses are nasty people who don't care about their patients. The first post was so black and white and confrontational and seemed designed to tick people off("Never understood nursing" is a prime example)-which it seems he was sucessful in doing. There are people who are lazy, nasty and passive aggressive in ALL fields in healthcare:nurses, CNA's, PA's and let's not forget doctors, who IMHO, have cornered the market on nasty far better than nurses ever will. He also seems to be under the mistaken impression that he is able to write people up..That one made me chuckle, if anything. I am kind of mad at myself for even posting this and thereby feeding the troll further, but I'm done now and this misguided soul is going on my ignore list..Something tells me though, that I don't even need to do that, because I think he's had his fun.

Specializes in Med/surg, ER/ED,rehab ,nursing home.

I have been in Nursing since the early 1970's. The PA's I've met have been professional. Some for certain had the worst "I am God" attitude, just like some nurses. Where I have been employed on a med-surg unit for the last 16 yrs, where we have had a good and compassionate crew. Just last night our CNT mentioned she had called in on Sunday and Monday because she fell off a ladder painting her house. ( She is 50 ) She said she was able to do all of her usual hard work. But guess what, our charge nurse came to us and told us what had happened. We took over on her heavy load of turning and cleaning up of our patients. Guess again! When we call for assist, members of our team and the other team will come to the rescue. I have stayed at this job for 16 + years. No other floor in this hospital has the compassion for their co-workers who act on it like my floor. Those who come into the system JUDGEMENTAL, trying to knock what works for us, will either convert to being HUMAN, or will move on. Don't muddy the water. Perfection will not save the patient, but several good nurses using their common knowlege will. By the book is just a guide, not the law. The stab you in the back nurses seem to show up at the big university hospitals, where there may be more room to move up.

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