Nevada NCLEX (New) Requirement Physical Assessment Course for Foreign Graduates

[jinxedminx]

hello, although i come here often, i'm not a very active poster because i saw how bad some arguments end up. but i felt this information was very important to share with all of you. i am a bsn graduate from the philippines and i recently applied for the nclex-rn in nevada. yesterday, i received a letter from their bon stating my application is "denied with an educational option". based on my ces report, they are requiring me to complete a physical assessment course at a board approved nursing program in the us with a grade of "c" or higher. and once i send them the transcripts/documentation showing completion, i will be allowed to take the test.

this came to a surprise to me because i have relatives and friends who are also bsn graduates from the philippines and didn't have this problem. and the most recent ones that applied were around 2009-2010. they are already licensed and working. their curriculum was almost identical with mine wherein physical assessment was integrated into the rle (related learning experience) and fundamentals of nursing practice subject (most especially throughout my second year). maybe it should have been clarified in my ces report. but i highly believe this is a newly mandated and/or they are becoming more strict. either way, i am more than willing to comply with it. i'm aware that in most if not all us nursing programs have physical assessment as a separate course.

this may not be a problem for all foreign graduates who took physical assessment as a separate subject. in the philippines though, when i graduated two years ago, i believe most nursing programs didn't have it separated. but after i left, i know that in my school, and perhaps others, they made changes in the curriculum possibly making it a separate subject. so recent graduates may not have to encounter this same problem.

i consulted my aunt regarding this since she is active in the nursing education system. she holds a doctorate in nursing and is currently teaching in the masters program in her school in new jersey. apparently, this physical assessment course requirement has also been recently mandated in the new jersey board of nursing. and in her school, foreign graduates applying for the nclex go there to complete that requirement. only difference though in their state, they just need to show a certification for that course, there is no grade. i believe this requirement is relatively new.. possibly for all states or eventually will be for all states regarding foreign nursing graduates... or maybe just those with a ces report? but anyways my main point of this post is to ask:

do any of you know of a school where i can take just this physical assessment course? preferably in southern california or the nevada area. if there are approved online courses, that would help very much as well.

has anyone received the same requirement?

do you think this will be an additional requirement for the ca bon for foreign nurses?

to give a background, i am a us citizen, born and raised in ca, but took my tertiary education in the philippines. like many of you, i encountered the concurrency problem when i tried to apply for the nclex in ca. and it broke my heart because i am from here and my family lives here. but my mother's advise, who is also a nurse, was to just apply to nevada and eventually fulfill the requirements of ca (since no one has actually succeeded in doing that just yet). the completing of a physical assessment course seems more possible so i guess it's not so bad. but it does suck how it becomes more and more difficult. i'd also like to know:

are there any updates regarding a school in ca where we can complete our ob and med-surgical requirements for the ca bon?

since it is so hard to find a ca school that accepts foreign grads wanting to only take two subjects, will the ca bon allow us to complete the requirements in other us state schools?

do any of you know if holding a master's degree in nursing in another state will qualify the foreign graduate to be licensed in ca? i think it was mentioned before but i'd like to clarify this if it's true or not.

i actually have a lot to say regarding the concurrency problem in ca. but maybe i'll save it for later, since i don't want to stray too far away from the main topic.

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

I am sorry as US citizen you found no value in a US education. Unfortunately your education is limiting your career choices. As a US student most take the NCLEX as soon as the graduate and pass, the facts are the Internationally Educated Nurses fail at a very high rate ( which means the graduates don't meet the basic US standards).

Masters Degree, I would see if you could enroll entry level since no MSN program will admit with a RN. There are many programs in CA.

[jinxedminx]

I'm sorry, but where did you get that I found no value in a US education? That's a pretty harsh assumption.

Thanks, this is actually one of my options since I get to still stay in CA. Do you know if it is a fact though, that the BON will credit a masters program as fulfilling the requirements of concurrency for OB and Med-Surg? I also believe I have the option to enter a MSN program in another state as long as I accomplish being a licensed RN in that state. I'm trying to find a physical assessment course first though, to meet the Nevada BON's requirements since it seems the most achievable; Other foreign graduates were able to successfully meet that requirement in other states. But they were only required to present a certificate. Nevada needs a physical assessment course with a grade.

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

I'm sorry, but where did you get that I found no value in a US education? That's a pretty harsh assumption.

Thanks, this is actually one of my options since I get to still stay in CA. Do you know if it is a fact though, that the BON will credit a masters program as fulfilling the requirements of concurrency for OB and Med-Surg? I also believe I have the option to enter a MSN program in another state as long as I accomplish being a licensed RN in that state. I'm trying to find a physical assessment course first though, to meet the Nevada BON's requirements since it seems the most achievable; Other foreign graduates were able to successfully meet that requirement in other states. But they were only required to present a certificate. Nevada needs a physical assessment course with a grade.

That fact you choose to go to school outside of the USA, in my opinion shows that you did not find value in a US Education otherwise you would have attended school in the US.

A MSN obtained after a BSN does not have OB and Med Surg modules since it is assumed that you have completed that in your BSN. Plus you have to a current nursing license to enter a MSN program

An entry level MSN would have the basic Med, Surg, OB, etc.

Why is having a grade attached to a course such a road block? Also are you prepared to practice in NV since you will be limited where you can practice.

[steppybay]

"i actually have a lot to say regarding the concurrency problem in ca. but maybe i'll save it for later, since i don't want to stray too far away from the main topic."

to jinkedminx: i know you said you rather save your comments in regards to the ca concurrency problem for later, but why not just let us know your thoughts today? maybe there might be something in your comment that might be of help to us that are struggling with this exact issue, thanks! don't leave us dangling, lol.

good or bad, it doesn't matter, it's a public forum anyways.

[jinxedminx]

Oh no not at all, You jump to such conclusions and I haven't even mentioned my reasons. You don't even know anything about me. If this conversation was in person, it would come off as offensive to say to someone you just met. Although some have negative reasons, you shouldn't generalize US citizens who go abroad for their education as having no value in a US education. We all have different reasons but I believe it is far from belittling a US education. In other fields, their reasons would relate to their career choice for ex. becoming a Japanese translator, or a lawyer specializing in international law or some go abroad because of a course that isn't available here. Some are just plainly fulfilling their dream to study in a different country. I value both the US and Filipino education that I have attained. And although I did not take my nursing education here, I respect the education here.

It's funny 'cause usually it is foreign education that is looked down upon. I have family and friends who attained their nursing education here and abroad. And all of them are equally accomplished. I don't look down or highly on either or. Some of the foreign educated ones have even been for a long time nursing educators and have been contributing to the US education to help maintain its standard. The elder ones are mostly educated in the Philippines, my mother included. She was part of the first wave of recruited nurses that were needed to solve the lack of nurses in America during her time. And for decades, there was never a problem similar to the current concurrency problem for Filipino educated nurses, not until last year.

I respect the CA law that although old, is being now enforced for IE nurses. I see their good intentions and I am more than willing to comply. But it can't be denied how there are inconsistencies and it could have been executed better without raising suspicions of discrimination. Also, it is undeniable their solution is difficult to accomplish and almost impossible (limited foreign student slots in schools and, for most, financial limitations). The best we can do is try to help one another. Yes, being US educated would have made things easier but no one should be made to feel bad for where they were educated, especially just because of this new challenge.

I would have preferred to not share anything too personal but my reasons to study in the Philippines had nothing to do with undervaluing US education nor had it to do with trying to opt for a cheaper tuition (But for those who did, there's nothing wrong with that. It makes me feel upset that there are people who hold the misconception our nursing education is of any less quality because of the cost. It is the mushrooming of diploma mill, money focused nursing schools that ruined our credibility-thus the low NCLEX passing rate- and bad people who tried to get away with false documents. There are many successful nurses in America and all over the world who began with a Filipino or non-US nursing education). I came to the Philippines around my preteen years for the main reason to spend more time with my grandparents and family there. My grandma died within the year I came. And my grandpa died a few years later. And although I was supposed to come back here for college, while I was there, I was inspired to become a doctor in my father's alma mater. It was also the alma mater of my grandfather and several of my relatives (my dad, grandpa, and some relatives are doctors and the other relatives are nurses). It is known to be the best medical school in the Philippines and holds one of the highest passing rates for the local nursing exam. So I enrolled in nursing as my premed course.

During my third year, when my parents came to visit, I saw how old they were getting and how they also had the responsibility to put my sister through med school; it was that time that she voiced it out. My father married late and he shouldn't have to retire late nor should my mom. And i didn't want to spend another 5 years away from them. I made a decision that I thought would benefit everyone, which is to go straight to pursue my nursing career here and later on shoulder my own med education if ever I decide to continue it. And it was also during college that I learned about there being specialties in nursing.. I learned that some of my aunts had done so and a cousin of mine that time just finished her education as a nurse anesthetist here in the US. This enticed my interest in pursuing a specialized nursing career instead. I personally discovered in college I enjoyed the work of a nurse more than a doctor. Although, I am still open to the possibility of going back to med school later on.. but with the current tightened restrictions for IE nurses, they said perhaps it's a sign that I should go now to med school.. but I'm still having doubts if I still want to and I don't want to give up just yet my career in nursing. As of now, I'm focused on being an RN and all other dreams are temporarily on hold. It is hard and feels almost impossible but it is still quite possible, especially if I decide to practice in another state like Nevada. Even fulfilling the requirements for CA is still possible, it will just take more time. And hopefully over time, there will be more opportunities for IE nurses to fulfill it without retaking courses that weren't affected by the concurrency issue.

Yes, thanks for clarifying. The MSN program does not have the required OB and Med-Surg to be licensed in CA unless it is entry level MSN. I hope others will be aware of that 'cos it can be misinterpreted that any MSN can cover the CA concurrency issue. I can choose to study my MSN in Nevada but it won't be accepted in CA unless it is an entry level MSN program. I can take my post-BSN MSN in Nevada but I can only practice in CA if I have found a school that allowed me to accomplish the OB and Med-surg courses concurrently.

The road block is not a course with an attached grade, it is finding a physical assessment

course that I can enroll in that provides a grade. That is why I am inquiring here if anyone knows or if anyone received a similar requirement. As of now, the schools I inquired do not have it or do not cater to a single course enrollment. I only found one school that provides the physical assessment course that an IE nurse can enroll in but it only provides a certificate, not a grade. I heard of online physical assessment courses but the ones I found so far are for post-grad credit.

[jinxedminx]

Hi steppybay! It's nice to know that someone would listen to what I have to say. Haha. As much as possible, I wanted to focus first on relaying information. But I guess no matter how much I tried to stay objective, it can't be avoided here to be inflicted to speak my piece of mind. Well, my second post... that's just a gist of what I have to say. I told you I have a lot to say. Lol. I'll try to get them all down soon. I've been following closely all the threads in relation to the CA concurrency issue and IE nurses and I haven't commented on them even though I would like to help encourage others in the same boat as me, but I wanted to avoid being caught up in any online arguments. But my gosh some comments, some are very ignorant and it is obvious they have a poor understanding of the OB/Med surg clinical case requirements in the Philippines. And some comments are just purely discriminative. This is a very difficult problem we are dealing with but the main purpose of sites like this is to have nurses help one another, not make comments that wouldn't help at all and make them feel worst. But a lot of it has mostly been encouraging and helpful and hopefully I can contribute as well.

[traumaRUs, MSN, APRN]

Have you asked the NV BON where the course could be taken? Must it be taken in NV? They probably have a list of courses and the colleges where it is available that they would honor.

[jinxedminx]

Have you asked the NV BON where the course could be taken? Must it be taken in NV? They probably have a list of courses and the colleges where it is available that they would honor.

I called earlier this week to inquire but they didn't give me a specific place. It turned out to me giving suggestions of the few schools I found that have a physical assessment course (but have not yet replied to me with regards to single class enrollment). And to my surprise, I was inquired about the details of the course like how it was taught, etc. Of course, I didn't know since in the first place I called to ask for info. Lol. I was hoping they would give me suggestions or at least by me mentioning a school, they would have an idea if they approve it or not to fulfill the requirement.

Nonetheless, I told them I would research further and call back. I brought up online classes but I don't think they are in favor of them unless it involves high tech interaction. And classes (even if they cater for that specific requirement for foreign grads in other states) that just give a certificate aren't approved unless they have some sort of evaluation test/s. What I interpreted, they generally approve any accredited nursing program (so out of NV should be ok) that will involve me to learn and some form of evaluation.

Kinda vague but I'm hoping it's a good thing since they seem flexible. But yeah, I'm still left with no prospective school. It would have helped a lot if they just told me directly but perhaps this is something new.

[steppybay]

Oh no, sorry to hear about this problem. Does this requirement need to be taken in NV? Or can you take in any other state (maybe CA) if they offer it? I was thinking maybe some other state offers it, even on-line, but whether or not, it gives you a grade, I'm not sure.

If it means having to move for a short time to that state, maybe you might have a friend or relative there or share a room?

[elkpark]

A Master's in nursing will not change anything for licensure, in CA or in any other US state. Any time you apply for RN licensure in a state, the educational program that matters is your original "pre-licensure" nursing program -- the program that prepared and qualified you for RN licensure in the first place. Nothing else you do educationally in your career will change or override that initial nursing program. However many further nursing degrees you complete in the US as time goes on, you will always be a graduate of your original PI program for licensure purposes.

[BennyRNCA]

I agree with elkpark comments as I am going into a MSN degree program. It so happens that I was helping a fellow international student who was denied in CA with his BSN and denied. I got my degree in CA.

If your original BSN degree does not meet the desired state's educational requirements, then, your "foundation" is not there. It will always go back to where you acquired your BSN degree (at least in CA).