need help with unruly cna group

Nurses LPN/LVN

Published

to be brief, there is a group of unruly cna's on the unit. Management of all levels knows about it, relies on the lpn's to handle it, with no backing. 1 in management is part of their clique. Nurses are threatened by cna's that if they are written up, they will set up the nurses to be fired. It has been done before, 3 times so far. Need advice other than get another job as to what to do. Advice appreciated. Thanks.

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Specializes in Neurosciences, stepdown, acute rehab, LTC.

That's a tough one... Maybe have a meeting with other managers that aren't in the clique ? Bring it to administration ? This should be a group effort amongst nurses so you don't look like you're the only one who cares.

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that's the issue. It's only on one shift, at which time management isn't there to "have to deal with it". Several nurses and family members have gone to upper management, which ended up landing myself and 2 other nurses on the shift a stern talking to by management about how we talk to our cna's. We were like, "really? we say please and thank you, have not been mean..etc" yet we were seen as still at fault because the cna "clique" said we were mean for telling them to do their jobs. Example...could you please see that Ms. Doe gets her shower? answer..."I know my job I've been here 5 years I'm grown, don't tell me what to do..I'll do it when I see fit...your not my boss and we already had nurses like you fired so shut up." this is an every day occurrence. It is only happening on this unit. Float cna's are shocked at the behavior they see. They have gone to management. The second time we nurses did go to management we were told we were singling out certain people and it was a personality conflict. Seriously? I'm speaking for 3 nurses here at a loss of what to do. One of which is thinking of quitting to protect her license after being told by other float cna's that she was being set up by the clique to lose her job and potentially her license. Sorry about the long reply..just trying to paint the entire picture and feeling desperate. :/

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Specializes in Allergy/ENT, Occ Health, LTC/Skilled.

If administration isn't behind you, your screwed. Every facility I have been at, the policy clearly states that while we are to supervise the CNAs on our hall, we are not to dole out write ups or reprimands. That is the role of the charge nurse. If this is in your employee handbook, you need to find this, show it to them, and all nurses having this issue need to demand a change.

I am at a facility now that us nurses are NOT in charge of the CNAs, they have their specified CNA boss that they directly report to. We are simply co-workers. It is SOOOO nice. Because of this, the CNAs know we can't do anything, and they will report lazy or inappropriate co workers themselves.

Good luck!!

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Specializes in Allergy/ENT, Occ Health, LTC/Skilled.
that's the issue. It's only on one shift, at which time management isn't there to "have to deal with it". Several nurses and family members have gone to upper management, which ended up landing myself and 2 other nurses on the shift a stern talking to by management about how we talk to our cna's. We were like, "really? we say please and thank you, have not been mean..etc" yet we were seen as still at fault because the cna "clique" said we were mean for telling them to do their jobs. Example...could you please see that Ms. Doe gets her shower? answer..."I know my job I've been here 5 years I'm grown, don't tell me what to do..I'll do it when I see fit...your not my boss and we already had nurses like you fired so shut up." this is an every day occurrence. It is only happening on this unit. Float cna's are shocked at the behavior they see. They have gone to management. The second time we nurses did go to management we were told we were singling out certain people and it was a personality conflict. Seriously? I'm speaking for 3 nurses here at a loss of what to do. One of which is thinking of quitting to protect her license after being told by other float cna's that she was being set up by the clique to lose her job and potentially her license. Sorry about the long reply..just trying to paint the entire picture and feeling desperate. :/

mmmkay, not what you wanna hear, but find a new job, This sounds like a freaking circus, time to move on whether you want to or not.

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If management won't put them in their place, no one will.

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Specializes in LTC.

So, ummm, lemme get this straight: CNA's are "setting up" nurses to lose their job and possibly license? Exactly how are they going to accomplish that? The only ways that I can think of are neglecting residents themselves if not outright injuring them and blaming the nurse? (Abuse?) Not reporting changes in condition then saying they did?

Since staying there long-term doesn't sound feasible, I would write each and every CNA for every infraction (especially not showering people and insubordination) and hand them to someone in management that wasn't in the clique. When nothing is done, I would call the Ombudsman and report above the facility level. You're likely going to lose your job one way or another (quit or get fired) so might as well attempt to see to the needs of the residents before you go. I can't help but think of what kind of "care" and treatment those helpless folks are receiving.

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My first suggestion would be to have a CNA meeting. In said meeting, a discussion on what their job entails. Clear expectations. And their suggestion on how to best accomplish what they need to do.

With that being said, do not micromanage. If the CNA's know what it is they are to be doing, and the residents are all happy and well cared for, then I would stay out of the fray. The only time I get into any sort of questioning of my CNA's is when something is not done. I question why, and immediately ask for a suggestion on how to make it different going forward.

I love the idea of a lead CNA, however, that sometimes adds fuel to the fire as then the group gangs up on whatever CNA is the lead.

I would ask if I would be feasible to have 2 CNA's go down the line together. Partner them up. Make sure there's a posted schedule of who gets showers when, other stuff that needs to happen. You could rotate lead. And the lead is the extra set of hands, helps answer bells, that kind of thing.

I am the first one to say that CNA's know how to do their job, they do it well, and that I am around for questions, comments, concerns. However, I also need to be sure that the residents are cared for appropriately. I have instituted paperwork so that everyone is aware of what everyone else has done/is doing, and is a continuity of care that everyone can refer to.

There is report, and a brain sheet. I address everyone as "Miss________" I show respect because I find I get it in return.

There is always 1 or 2 in the bunch. And power struggles don't bode well with resident safety.

"Miss___________ (Pain in my behind) I understand you know your job. And I am so pleased that you are part of my team, as you really do a great job!! But Mrs. Jones was out yesterday and didn't get her shower. Do you have the time, or who does she shower for the best? Can you grab Miss___________ (please lord can we just get a shower done) and put her in before she gets dressed for the day?"

Because at the end of the day, if the residents are safe, happy, clean and well cared for, I don't get overly involved in how that happens--and respond to CNA blah blah is sooooo lazy stuff with a "what is your solution". Parts of the problem can be part of the solution. They all have the ability (and desire) to govern themselves. AS LONG AS they are not going out of scope or willful misconduct as far as neglect/abuse--then you have a legal issue on your hands and story for another thread.

So decide a specific plan of action, write it out, and go see upper management again. With a solution in hand. And JUST to be on the safe side (and every nurse should have it) get .

Best wishes.

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Specializes in Medical Surgical.

Sometimes the best way to deal with someone like this is to let them know it is not ok to speak to you like that. For example, if a tech were to say what you quoted to me I would likely reply "here are better ways to communicate than speaking like that. I will not tolerate you speaking to me that way again. This is a work environment and we need to respect each other. The patient in room 4321 has requested to take a shower before she goes to bed in the next hour, and I need you to help her so I can finish my med pass." If things don't improve start documenting every interaction and possibly look for a new job. That isn't just unruly, that is unprofessional, disrespectful, and childish. A grown person doesn't need to announce they are grown. Good luck.

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Specializes in sub acute, ltc, mental health/addiction.

If management wont address the issues and nurses are feeling "threatened" then WHY do you want to continue to work there? I know you dont want to hear get another job but seriously think about it.

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1. Look for another place because they're working under your license and don't need them trying to get you fired or worst put your license in jeopardy 2. If administration isn't on your side try to get cooperate involved 3. Mean time stand your ground make sure your patients safety isn't jeopardized, if need be exercise your right as a supervisor to discipline your subordinates as necessary but remember to pick your battles

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