Need help please

[Tinkerz]

I am looking for some advise, my sister IMO is an addict. She goes to ER all the time and different doctors all the time. She goes to ER for migraines, then it was back pain, then kidney stones, now it's all 3! She was going twice a week to ER sometimes even twice a day. She has insurance with a co-pay so it's cheap for her to go. My husband and I checked how many pills she was taking while she lived with us. It was at least 15 hydrocodone a day, and and sometimes perocet on top of that and an ER visit for a shot. In 2 weeks she went to 5 or 6 doctors and 2 ER. One ER doctor gave her 30 hydrocodone and 15 percocet and a shot all in one visit. Another doctor gave her 56 hydrocodone (why not 60?) is there a limit on how many they can give? Anyway when confronted she denied everything and we never showed her the proof.

Is there anything we can do since she is in denial? Call the hospitals maybe? She goes to different doctors so we can't call them. One of the last times she went for a shot they gave her the shot, she got in her car drove to get her pills and was back before her ride showed up to get her.

We are very very worried about her, but she is an adult. Is there anything we can do?

[sissiesmama, ASN, RN]

Unfortunately drug seekers always find ways to get drugs. I suggest talking to her. But until she wants to change, there may not be much you can do.

From my experience, several of our clients have become addicted to pain meds. They jump from ER to ER to Dr. To Dr. and think they are getting away with it. But they are being watched, and eventually they get arrested for drug seeking.

I would mention to your sister that she might be being tracked. That may stop her behavior.

DA - That was my thought exactly!! I know here in Louisiana where I live, the Rph strictly monitors the scripts. If they have even an inkling that something is up, they call Metro Narcotics (our local narc task force type of law enforcement. But like you said, we have seekers, or doctor hopper, that type, and on one of our main streets in town, there are so many pharmacies you wouldn't believe it. Like less than 1/8 of a mile you have Walgreens, Rite aid, CVS, Wal mart, and also a grocery and a discount store who also have pharmacies. Easy access, until they are discoovered.

One of my old co workers not too long ago was seeing 4 different MD's in the office. Here our Rph faxes the MD office for a refill authorization. This lady got her phatmacies mixed up, and she didn't know which was which. They thought something was amiss and called all 4 of the MD's. @ of her MD's fired hwe as a patient. One thing I have heard prople say it that if they have insurance on script, they have the info on file at one place, then go to the next one and lies about having any and just pays cash for whatever she can get at the time.

Anne, RNC

[BrnEyedGirl, BSN, MSN, RN, APRN]

It is illegal to take prescription meds in any way other than what is prescribed. Therefore, it is illegal to go to Dr A and get 60 Hydrocodone, be told to take one every 4 hours as needed, then go to Dr B, not tell Dr B that 8 days ago you received a Rx for 60 hydrocodone, and get 60 more, then go to ER and not mention the 120 hydrocodone and get 60 Oxycodone...etc.

This is breaking federal law not state law and yes they do track this stuff! It is a very slow process, but the insurance co is watching, the pharmacies, and the hospitals. She will eventually get caught, hopefully before she kills herself or someone else.

[DA314]

I would let her hit rock bottom. Sometimes saving people from themselves is not what is best for them. Letting people fall on their faces is sometimes just hwat they need.

I know it is hard to see someone you love going through this, but you cannot control the actiosn of another adult. All you can do it offer her guidance and emotional support.

Good luck!

[sissiesmama, ASN, RN]

You are right that even just the Tylenol by itself can screw her liver up. I was just curious, has she having these behaviors for a long time, or come up more recently? With prolonged use as with anything else, she will have multiple system problems if her body can't metabolize the drugs as fast as she is consuming them.

I do hope she gets help, before her actions cause injury or death to her or anyone else.

Anne, RNC

[classicdame, MSN, EdD]

It is also illegal for healthcare providers to discuss the patient without written permission, so be aware.

[DA314]

It is also illegal for healthcare providers to discuss the patient without written permission, so be aware.

Be aware of what? This person is talking about her sister, whom none of us know. I'm assuming that she isn't also the health care provider for her sister.

[cherrybreeze, ADN, RN]

My point was mostly that things are hard to prove. Yes, they're tracked, proving them is a whole other ball of wax. Like I mentioned, my ins co was on top of what I was getting/taking....but so were my docs. The amounts never exceeded what was prescribed, and they we concerned about scripts from different MD's....some were ER docs, some were surgeons (of various specialties, and throw partners in to the mix)....I always submitted things through insurance, and I always went to docs within my group. These things will STILL raise red flags, although I was diligent and never did anything wrong.

[Tinkerz]

I guess she does need to hit her bottom, and after reading all your post it sounds like anything that I was thinking might help may actually land her in jail and that's the last thing I want. I just can't understand why her insurance company hasn't stopped this. Let me say that I do believe she is in pain, but I believe the pain is due to withdrawal when she runs out.

In another way this really makes me mad, because my back really hurts and my husband and I are self employed, I haven't seen a doctor because we don't insurance and I don't want to make it pre-existing before we get insurance. So, it hurts most of the time. I just don't do as much as I used to because I can't, and it's people like her that make insurance so high.

Thanks again for all your support and I hope her bottom doesn't kill her.

[sissiesmama, ASN, RN]

I guess she does need to hit her bottom, and after reading all your post it sounds like anything that I was thinking might help may actually land her in jail and that's the last thing I want. I just can't understand why her insurance company hasn't stopped this. Let me say that I do believe she is in pain, but I believe the pain is due to withdrawal when she runs out.

In another way this really makes me mad, because my back really hurts and my husband and I are self employed, I haven't seen a doctor because we don't insurance and I don't want to make it pre-existing before we get insurance. So, it hurts most of the time. I just don't do as much as I used to because I can't, and it's people like her that make insurance so high.

Thanks again for all your support and I hope her bottom doesn't kill her.

Yes, you are right about the insurance thing. If she has it and gives the information to more than one, I think one of the pharmacies will most of the time refuse to fill the script. These in our state also call then, I think, and report them. I'm really surprised they are still fixing her up.

Good luck to you - Anne, RNC

Oh, by the way, I wanted to say she is really lucky to have someone like you trying to help her.

Anne

[Tinkerz]

You are right that even just the Tylenol by itself can screw her liver up. I was just curious, has she having these behaviors for a long time, or come up more recently? With prolonged use as with anything else, she will have multiple system problems if her body can't metabolize the drugs as fast as she is consuming them.

She has been doing this for years, but off and on I think.

Now (at least while she lived with us) she has done nothing else. She works from home, or she used to, but she won't answer the phone or return business phone calls. She stayed locked in her room at least 20 hrs a day. She came out to go to the doctor and ER, and really thats about it. It's very sad she has no life. Also 2 yrs ago she had gastric bypass surgery, she went from 270 to 115 lbs. she has lost too much weight, she looks terrible!! I do wonder if having had that surgery makes taking some drugs more dangerous.

[cherrybreeze, ADN, RN]

I should have added this, also.....she really does have to hit bottom for herself. Until that happens, she just will not see what she is doing to herself. It's an unfortunate reality regarding addicts. If they don't see the problem, they can't want help, and they need to want to help themselves.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this, and I hope she sees what she is doing to herself (and to you!) and can accept some help, and soon.

[twinmommy+2, ADN, BSN, MSN]

I think the best way to handle someone like her is to be blunt and confront her with the information you have on her. If you have proof, show her the proof in a loving way so she knows that you know. You and the other family members have to be a united front against this so she can see she doesn't have a choice but to stop it.