need advice from rns that became pas or nps

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We know np program is intense but not as intense as pa school do you think the dnp program will change this?

At thatguy understand how you feel. But a doctorate of nursing is a doctorate in healthcare which gives the person the privilage to be called doctors. Im not sure if there is a doctorate in physican assistance because i believe if PAs went to school more than they do now they might aswell call it med school. Since PAs study in the field of medicine. But nursing is a whole different approach in healthcare. Just like dentist optomitrist pharmacist and physical therapist.

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At thatguy understand how you feel. But a doctorate of nursing is a doctorate in healthcare which gives the person the privilage to be called doctors. Im not sure if there is a doctorate in physican assistance because i believe if PAs went to school more than they do now they might aswell call it med school. Since PAs study in the field of medicine. But nursing is a whole different approach in healthcare. Just like dentist optomitrist pharmacist and physical therapist.

I never said anything about calling themselves "doctor." I could care less what one calls himself. The PA statement is true. They, by the way, study medicine, and the first PA-DO program was finally affirmed and will be starting up soon. Keep in mind that PA school is essentially years two and three of medical school. Until then, with whatever the degree, you won't see a PA going by the title of doctor in any clinical setting. Pharmacists don't generally go by "doctor" either.

However, I should say if you pull back a curtain, wearing a lab coat, and walk in on a patient stating "Hi, I'm Dr. Smith" then I belive the conception will be that you are a physician. How is that going to be corrected? "Hi, I'm Dr. Smith, one of the nurses here?" Do Ph.D. nurses not work in clinical settings? I doubt they're introducing themselves as Dr. So and So.

The whole point of my reply was to share my opinion on the futility of DNP programs with this being an open discussion board. If anything the existing MSN programs need to be refined into a more scientific and clinical program, yet again this is my opinion.

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I value your opinion btw how long is the pa-do program after bachelors becauaw if its 4 years i might as well go to medical school. But pa is a profession of its own. I highly doubt they would remove their master program. They might remove the bachelora program though

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I value your opinion btw how long is the pa-do program after bachelors becauaw if its 4 years i might as well go to medical school. But pa is a profession of its own. I highly doubt they would remove their master program. They might remove the bachelora program though

I personally feel like the PA and NP midlevels should both be obligate masters-level career fields. I also feel like the NPs could learn some from PA academics. Despite NPs and PAs often being used interchangably one has to agree that a PA program is superior, and historically one could not become a PA without having first worked as some other type of healthcare professional so the argument that RNs having RN experience prior to enrolling in a NP program is moot. Obviously, both professions are evolving to allow more and more direct entry students. Like many nurses here protest that many PAs over on the physician assistant forums protest that in their field as well.

I think there was a push to require all PAs to have master's degrees. Like nursing, at one time you could become a PA with a mere certificate or associate's degree.

That said, the PA-DO program is new and the number of students is small. I'm sure the experience level of the PAs to enroll will be substantial. I believe the premise is also such that graduates will enter primary care residencies. This is not a short process or a shortcut to becoming a doctor which should be pointed out in case anyone reading this is looking for loopholes or easier paths to becoming a physician. There is already a three year DO program at LECOM emphasizing primary care, and I believe graduates are funneled into an FP residency. A school in Texas has developed a three year medical school as well, and I'm thinking the PA-DO program is Texan in origin as well.

They'll be PA, some I'm sure with master's degrees (if not all), and they'll still have to take the standard premed prereqs, MCAT, obtain the volunteer/community service experience, letters of rec., etc. Nothing will change. The med school admissions process is considerably uniformed.

I have heavily considered the PA route (have put in time as a paramedic thus I have the requisite experience), and I have communicated substantially with PAs. I'm not moving out of state for a scholastic program so no PA for me. That must mean I don't want to be one that badly. ;) Then again, I'm satisfied with where I live and what I do now for that matter, yet I feel an urge to learn more about healthcare and I dare say "medical stuff." Yes, we know nurses don't do medicine, but disease is disease.

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Specializes in Adult primary care, college health.
Despite NPs and PAs often being used interchangably one has to agree that a PA program is superior

Um, I'm not sure that one actually DOES "have to agree" that a PA program is superior to an NP program. One may have a preference for one model of education over another, but that doesn't make one inherently and/or objectively "superior" to another.

I've actually had the opportuntity to precept both PA and NP students. PA students come to their intensive 5 week rotation with a year of intensive classroom teaching about EVERYTHING, and then aren't in classes at all for the second year of their program. NP students are (in a good program, at least) learning in the classroom alongside relevant clinical rotations throughout the entire 2+ year program.

They're different models but each has been proven to provide an appropriate foundation for each role. I've had mediocre and awesome students from both PA and NP programs.

(And, not for nothing, but I'm not exactly sure how many people you thought were going to agree with you that PA programs are superior to NP programs on a Nurse Practitioner discussion board...)

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Um, I'm not sure that one actually DOES "have to agree" that a PA program is superior to an NP program. One may have a preference for one model of education over another, but that doesn't make one inherently and/or objectively "superior" to another.

I've actually had the opportuntity to precept both PA and NP students. PA students come to their intensive 5 week rotation with a year of intensive classroom teaching about EVERYTHING, and then aren't in classes at all for the second year of their program. NP students are (in a good program, at least) learning in the classroom alongside relevant clinical rotations throughout the entire 2+ year program.

They're different models but each has been proven to provide an appropriate foundation for each role. I've had mediocre and awesome students from both PA and NP programs.

(And, not for nothing, but I'm not exactly sure how many people you thought were going to agree with you that PA programs are superior to NP programs on a Nurse Practitioner discussion board...)

The model doesn't have anything to do with it. The level of involvement, detail, and exposure does. A PA program simply has more classes directly concering anatomy, physiology, pathology, pharmacology, diagnostics, biochemistry, etc.

I'd like to see a study showing outcomes of a student experiencing diactics alongside practicals versus completing didactics before any practicals are attempted. That'd be good information.

Regarding not having NPs open to my opinion, which is just that, well, any good professional is self-critical.

I never asserted that one practitioner was better than the other. ;)

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Im doing dnp just to get dr. In front of my name though i dont believe PAs are superior than NP. I eill admit their program is way more intense then the NPs. I know it doesnt make sense.

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Specializes in Adult primary care, college health.

Hm, it's hard for me to judge as I haven't been through a PA program, but while there's certainly a level of intensity to most PA programs, the NP programs I've been familiar with (either as a student or a preceptor) have been no walk in the park. And whatever's happening in that one year of classroom teaching, the PA students who come to a rotation with us after their didactic work is complete are generally not any further along in their understanding of the fundamentals of diagnostics/pathophys/pharm/etc than the NP students. The students that have stood out have been those that bring previous experience and knowledge to their programs, regardless of whether they're PA or NP students.

To be clear, I don't in any way want to be interpreted as PA-bashing here, as I have a ton of respect for both PAs and PA programs, and I really value the collegial relationships I have with many PAs. I just think that making sweeping generalizations about one educational approach being objectively better or worse than another is problematic.

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Im doing dnp just to get dr. In front of my name though i dont believe PAs are superior than NP. I eill admit their program is way more intense then the NPs. I know it doesnt make sense.

Right now you're just 18 and your mind will change about 1.8 million times before that option comes around. Just focus on getting into nursing school first. And btw, the goal should be to become an outstanding health care provider. A DNP shouldn't be sought after as just a way to get 'Dr.' in front of your name.

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woah your an NP at age 30. Thats really nice i want to be that young and have my doctorate of nursing by that age. Your information was important and i value your opinion. thank you

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Specializes in Emergency, MCCU, Surgical/ENT, Hep Trans.

Jon, WHAT was the original advice you wanted from the NPs? The argument here is losing readers.

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Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

Agree - I can't figure out what the argument/discussion/debate is about?

As to being called "doctor" if you are a DNP, well, let me tell you because I am an APN (MSN-prepared) and pts are confused enough about mid-levels, let alone if you come in saying you are "doctor" so and so.

And....no you don't have time to explain that you have a doctorate in nursing - you are BUSY!

However, if you are misrepresenting yourself or the pt is confused and believes that you are an MD, well, all I can say is that the lawsuit will read "Dr. NP, defendant" and that won't be too much fun nor will it be worth it.

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