Nationalized Healthcare and Nursing Salaries

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Specializes in Critical Care.

Do you know why teachers get paid so little? The gov't has a monopoly on their salaries.

I've heard several people talk about nationalizing healthcare. S. Gordon plugs the concept at the end of 'Nursing against the Odds'.

But here's the question. And maybe it's selfish. But when every hospital is run by the gov't, don't you think that they'll also 'nationalize' a salary. Do you think that salary is going to be the highest common denominator? Or the lowest?

When EVERY hospital pays 16.50/hr, what will your choices really be? You think that's unrealistic? What is medicare paying DRs? A ton of money - if they take on a ton of pts and don't give any of them the time of day. But if you want to be ethical - dr's make peanuts under medicare.

"I'm sorry but the deficit you know - the only way you can get a raise to 17/hr is if you agree to take 8 pts each. And you have to sign a contract agreeing to this forever. And btw, you are a critical national resource, so you can't strike."

Oh sure ,there'll be regional 'costs of living' but that'll just make it worse if you don't live in NY or LA. Because where do you think they're gonna make that money back in salary 'averaging'? It means NY/LA gets 20/hr while Ark/OK get 14.

Oh, and just like teachers, you'll have to prove your competency. Some 'crat in D.C. won't let you practice unless you pass his 'stump the chump' test.

I was just throwing it out there for comment.

How will nationalizing healthcare effect nurses? Is it something we should really advocate? Or advocate against?

~faith,

Timothy.

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Specializes in tele, stepdown/PCU, med/surg.

Timothy, what a COSTCO size can of worms! :)

Personally, if healthcare was nationalized, I'd feel better about this country we live in for various reasons.

I'm not into nursing for the money itself. And if it did decrease wages, I would start a home business selling on eBay...(sorta kidding).

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Nationalized healthcare would be a big mistake, IMHO.

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I've spent most of my life living in countries where healthcare was nationalized. While I certainly see the advantages of healthcare for all and feel that our healthcare system could use a little updating, nationalized health care is not for me and my reasoning has nothing to do with how much money I will or will not make as a nurse!

Amanda

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Well, I was a teacher, and Timothy isn't too far off in his assessment of how they are paid, but it does vary from state to state. There is no national salary in the US. I think that everyone should have access to the health services they need, but I'm not sure how this could be accomplished with a national healthcare system, because you would probably have to standardize the salary for all employees, and some places are way more expensive to live in than others. Hmmmm...What do the Canadians think? If I understand right, there is a national system there. How is the Canadian salary?

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Specializes in Burn/Trauma ED.

Are you guys under the impression that we make more than teachers do now? Where I live new nurses make a little more than new teachers, but teachers' salaries advance much quicker and higher. And of course, this is for working 9 months of the year.

I really appreciate that people who said they are against national healthcare offered no rationale for it whatsoever.

My argument for national healthcare centers around 2 points:

1. Roughly 20% of every dollar spent on healthcare in this country goes to people/processes who handle billing for various insurance companies/agencies. So, we could potentially get a 20% reduction in costs right off the bat with a single payer system.

2. It's cheaper to pay for someone's anti-hypertensives than it is for them to come into the ED and get seen for a BP of 220/150. Same thing for insulin vs DKA and a million other scenarios.

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Specializes in Burn/Trauma ED.

Just in case no one believes me that teachers make more than RNs on average, you can get the facts straight from the Dept. of Labor:

http://www.bls.gov/ncs/ocs/sp/ncbl0727.pdf

Average Hourly salaries:

RN: $27

Teacher: $31

And just for reference, MDs clock in at an average of $58/hour.

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I really appreciate that people who said they are against national healthcare offered no rationale for it whatsoever.

I didn't offer support for my stance because I simply don't feel like researching statistics at the moment and didn't want to just toss anecdotes out there - but since you're asking - I've personally experienced the abdurd waiting times for treatments that you've read about in countries with socialized medicine, for things as serious as ovarian cancer. I literally watched a woman wait three weeks for an u/s to evaluate suspected ovarian cancer. It's ridiculous. Another woman that I know well flew to the US for treatment because it was quicker than waiting for life-saving treatment in her native country. She was fortunate that she had the financial resources to do so.

Listen, I've lived in Europe for most of my life and it's wonderful. There are things about socialized medicine that is amazing and great - but those waits are literally a killer and I prefer living in a country where I have a little more control over my health, even though it is ridiculously expensive. I don't disagree with your two main points, but the problems in this country are so much bigger than saying, "Nationalize health care, that's gonna fix it" cause it won't. Not even close.

You've got to address insurance companies, overpriced supplies (seriously, $500 for scissors that may or may not have been used during surgery that will be sterilized and used again, that's absurd), people who refuse to take advantage of preventive services (you can get any childhood vaccine you need free in my area, they'll even come to you, yet we have the highest rate of unvaccinated children in the nation), overuse of the system, and of course, litigation.

Amanda

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I really appreciate that people who said they are against national healthcare offered no rationale for it whatsoever.

For anyone who thinks nationalized healthcare ( a.k.a. socialized healthcare) is the best route, just take a look at the Medicare system and ask yourself "do I want bigger and more government?"

I'll post more of my thoughts later...gotta go buy more guns before the anti-gun nuts succeed in taking away that constitutional right.:redlight:

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It isn't that simple Timothy. In Canada for instance, nurses are generally unionized and they negotiate their contract with the health authority. The wages vary depending on the province, just like they vary depending on the state down here. Wages for experienced nurses get up into the $36 an hour range for base rates, which is quite comparable to here and the cost of living was lower.

I've been a patient in both countries and nursed in both as well. As a nurse, I like California right now. As a patient, I MUCH prefer Canada.

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Specializes in PeriOp, ICU, PICU, NICU.

I can't imagine what else the gov't would 'control'. Not sure I am up to the national healthcare idea.

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in canada for instance, nurses are generally unionized and they negotiate their contract with the health authority. the wages vary depending on the province, just like they vary depending on the state down here. wages for experienced nurses get up into the $36 an hour range for base rates, which is quite comparable to here and the cost of living was lower....

just to further add, many provinces have one nurses' union for the entire province, so individual health authorities do not negotiate separate contracts - wages do not vary between health authorities. in bc the starting wage for an rn is $25.49/ hr. this is for a first year rn. by the 9th year it increases to $33.46. charge nurses/supervisors/educators/specialty nurses start at a higher rate. bc rates are the third highest in the country, so other provinces will be higher or lower. if nurses work in a non-unionized setting, the pay tends to be lower. we have very good benefits: medical and extended health, dental, sick time and vacation (144 hrs/yr for ft), special leave (marriage, compassionate), etc. our contract is up for renewal in march.

universal health care means that...everyone pays their premiums for health care (which are relatively cheap). health care is never denied because of your inability to pay a monthly health insurance premium. for example, if a regular family paid $60 (not sure of the exact amt.) a month for health insurance, and the suddenly through job loss could not afford the monthly premium, there is a mechanism in place to continue to receive insurance for a reduced amount. a friend was unemployed a while ago, had very little money coming in, and he received his medical insurance for $1 a month!

i am fortunate that i did not even need to apply for some of my benefits because my husband has full coverage through his employer. i was sick in late dec/early jan. four trips to see my dr at the clinic, lab tests, and prescriptions (zithromax, clarithromycin, levofloxacin). cost to me was zero. (prescrptions paid through extended health benefits) not a dime out of my pocket. just went for a complete physical and have to have more lab work, xrays, and ultrasound. cost to me again, zero.

yes, we can have wait lists for some tests and elective surgeries. but, if my appendix burst in an emergency, i know i would the needed surgery. i know health care is expensive, a healthy chunk of our tax dollars goes to support our health care system. but tell me how our system is not a good one, when anyone can see a physician or enter hospital when needed, whether you are rich or poor. some of you have posted about amounts out of your pockets in the thousands for needed surgery. i can't imagine.

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