I thought I would share with you my experiences as a straight, white, non-political, low 30's - male in nursing. To avoid doxxing myself, I'll just say that I'm in a top 10 student getting my NP. I want to be very clear, I'm not saying men shouldn't go into nursing, I am saying you should understand what you're getting yourself into. Also, these are just my experiences and you could have a totally different experience.
I have an undergraduate in computer science and completed an ABSN program because I thought I'd like to work with people. The actual nursing portion of my program was great; fundamentals, pharmacology, and pathophysiology are all important classes to master. Unfortunately these courses represented a minority of the coursework. The majority of the coursework was spent essentially preaching socialism to us under the veneer of "community health" and "ethics". Now I get it, I was a little order when I went into nursing and I have a different perspective. But every single community health or ethics class was about how evil capitalism is and how there should be a government program for everything. Full disclaimer, I voted for Hilary Clinton twice and politics isn't my thing. The bias was so overwhelming and they didn't even try to hide it. I realize that socialism / communism is fashionable with the younger crowd, but I wish I would have learned about actual community health or ethical issues in nursing.
Race Issues. Yet another disclaimer, race couldn't mean less to me. We had several lectures and guest seminars from prominent people in campus leadership tell us that it wasn't possible to racist against white people because white people have all the power. It was just ironic because that statement came from a dean at an IVY league school that is a person of color. We had a few students that were obsessed with race. We would be learning about cardiac issues and the medications that you use to treat the conditions. For those that don't know, African Americans typically don't respond well to Angiotensin Receptor Blockers (ARBs) and are typically placed on calcium channel blockers. This one girl in class went on about how it was systemic racism and prior experiences being a slave that causes African Americans to have poor cardiac health. The professor went along with it.
To summarize my ABSN experience, I learned that it was never the patients fault for their own poor outcome. The poor outcome was entirely due to being oppressed because of their race or sex; or there isn't a government program available for them to utilize. The lack of a government program to help afford a generic medication that costs less than $5/90 day supply is probably due to racism.
I'll post about my experience in NP school later, but as a male I'd be aware of the following before I signed up for nursing school.
If I could describe nursing school in one word it would be gynocentric; if you gave me two words, I'd say extreme SJWs.
If you are science minded, put in the extra work and go to medical school. Trust me, I have friends that did this and the majority of your time is spent learning actual medicine. I had a semester long "evidence based practice" class where we learned that grounding yourself can improve your mental health. Grounding, as in grounding yourself to an electrical outlet or going barefoot in the grass. I've taken several classes on electricity and magnetism in my undergrad. "Grounding" yourself will do absolutely nothing but we learned pseudo-science instead of medicine.
If you are a-political or heaven forbid lean conservative; learn to keep your ideas to yourself. I got much better grades on assignments when I learned how to write like the reincarnation of Karl Marx.
Group work can be a very social thing. Group work in computer science focused on results and objective goals, does your code compile? Did your robot fall over and die? Nursing group work is about how people feel about the work. It's less objective and more subjective.
Your program will be mostly run by women and very effeminate men. My program has a prom every year. In all fairness, my computer science department would order bunch of kegs once a month for the students.
I'm not saying don't go into nursing. Nursing is a great profession and it's very rewarding. If I had to do it over again, I would have taken the additional year and applied to medical school.
I'll share more about my experience in NP school so far at another time.
Even we’re seeing with coronavirus it’s disproportionately affecting minorities and they’re dying from it at higher rates because of uneven quality of medical care.
WOW!. I didn't realize that a virus can be racist. You are telling me that if a white man and a black man go into the hospital with the exact same comorbidities, that (A): the virus is racist and will kill the black man and let the white man live or (B): all healthcare staff are racist and the black man gets inferior care?
I want to advocate for people who don’t get their voices to be heard regardless of color, because I know what it feels like not being heard. You’re not just a healthcare provider you’re an advocate you gotta know about the issues in order to do that.
You honestly believe that we (white healthcare staff) actually give inferior care to our black patients?
You honestly believe that we (white healthcare staff) actually give inferior care to our black patients?
Your privilege is speaking VOLUMES. Open your eyes you see all the protesting happening right? This country is being turned upside down. It’s systemic racism. People aren’t out there risking their lives for nothing. It’s not my job to explain or convince you of anything. Your allowed to walk around in your ignorance if you please it’s a free world and all of us have free will. Truly, have a good day!
Your privilege is speaking VOLUMES. Open your eyes you see all the protesting happening right? This country is being turned upside down. It’s systemic racism. People aren’t out there risking their lives for nothing. It’s not my job to explain or convince you of anything. Your allowed to walk around in your ignorance if you please it’s a free world and all of us have free will. Truly, have a good day!
Hi Bobognnp,
I am interested in hearing more of your point of view. I have been following all of the goings on and I just keep hearing statements and facts thrown out with out any deep root causes analysis. I also don't hear any specifics about what needs to be done to fix these alleged notions of maltreatment. Are you going to respond to his questions/points or are you just going to throw out political slogans and Ad Hominem attacks at him. He produced specific questions to refute you're broad and generalized statements. Please respond to his points with specific facts. Educate me and enlighten me.
First of all, I truly say this with all the respect and courtesy as I can from one human to another. I didn’t attack anyone as I specifically made a point to be polite I even wished him a good day at the end of my message. I know it’s hard to tell tone or connotation over a message board. I wasn’t being sarcastic at all. I was being sincere. Being ignorant is a choice and that’s okay because like I said we all have free will. Ignorance isn’t an insult it simply means lack of knowledge it doesn’t mean stupid. No one expects you to have knowledge of the minority experience if your not a minority. So therefore you are ignorant, defined specifically in this case as a lack of knowledge of the “minority experience” in America’s capitalistic healthcare system. So that’s why it’s ignorant to claim that this experience is unfounded or to deny them. That’s true ignorance especially when you can never be in that position. Secondly like I said it’s not my job to educate or change anyone’s opinion. That’s your job, to educate yourself. And it’s your choice to choose to either remain or not to remain ignorant. The great thing about the age we live in is we have a multitude of information at our fingertips. Look up systemic racism in healthcare you’ll find many infographs, statistics, scientific journals, peer reviewed papers, books and other informational resources.
First of all, I truly say this with all the respect and courtesy as I can from one human to another. I didn’t attack anyone as I specifically made a point to be polite I even wished him a good day at the end of my message. I know it’s hard to tell tone or connotation over a message board. I wasn’t being sarcastic at all. I was being sincere. Being ignorant is a choice and that’s okay because like I said we all have free will. Ignorance isn’t an insult it simply means lack of knowledge it doesn’t mean stupid. No one expects you to have knowledge of the minority experience if your not a minority. So therefore you are ignorant, defined specifically in this case as a lack of knowledge of the “minority experience” in America’s capitalistic healthcare system. So that’s why it’s ignorant to claim that this experience is unfounded or to deny them. That’s true ignorance especially when you can never be in that position. Secondly like I said it’s not my job to educate or change anyone’s opinion. That’s your job, to educate yourself. And it’s your choice to choose to either remain or not to remain ignorant. The great thing about the age we live in is we have a multitude of information at our fingertips. Look up systemic racism in healthcare you’ll find many infographs, statistics, scientific journals, peer reviewed papers, books and other informational resources.
Hi Bobognnp,
Actually I'm multi-racial (I pass for white, at the end of Summer, I can pass for Native or Latino) and my wife is a woman of color and is an immigrant. I know very well what white privilege is and I know what implicit bias is. I have watched it and experienced it with my own eyes, especially when with my wife while traveling and living in rural parts of the US. I lived several years overseas and I know I was treated differentially because I was a white American, like I was a big shot or something special. My wife was instantly treated better by staff when they would learn she was my wife. One minute she was a local, the next minute the wife of an "important white American." I have also been given several jobs over other candidates because I was hired or appointed so the company or agency could meet diversity hiring goals. I have had racist jokes told around me, because people forget what I am (I blend in), but then they suddenly remember who I am married to (Faux Pas). Its kind of funny the awkerdness of it. I did an honors undergraduate program and my senior thesis was on improving law enforcement and minority relations, specifically African-Americans in urban environments. My graduate work and specifically my graduate project I designed a program for elderly Native Americans who did not have access to preventive medical or nursing care. I know the issues at a deep level and Ito this day I keep up with peer reviewed research and policy matters in these specific areas to this day.
So who is ignorant for calling me ignorant and you know nothing about me? I am getting sick and tired of being treated like the Grand Dragon of the KKK because I was born with white skin and hazel eyes.
The white part of my family (Dad) were all Lutheran abolitionists from a "Slave State," they defected from the Confederacy and fought on the Union side in the Civil War. They spent months in a Union prison camp because they (The US Army) thought they were Confederate spies. They were finally released and went to fight in many battles. My great great great grandfather later married a freed woman and had my great great grandfather.
When can we talk about real issues, analyze issues without a bunch of political rhetoric and slogans, and develop real solutions based on data? There is a lot of brain power on this message board (I have been on and off here since it started years ago). Not all white people are evil.
Lets give this a try:
1. Maybe folks need to start eating better, 2. taking their BP meds, 3. monitoring their CBGs and dosing INS more accurately, 4. make their kids study and do their homework (Dr. Ben Carson anyone), 5. Make sex education and parenting classes mandatory for everyone...
and maybe
1. Take away the authority of the police to use lethal force on any misdemeanor or non-violent felony for anyone unless they have probably cause a violent may have occurred, 2. Make arrest warrants that are misdemeanor or non-violent felony arrestable at the discretion of the officer on scene and not the judge who signed it years before for a traffic court no-show, 3. Mandated social security payments including government paid health care to any family or child whose parent is incarcerated for a crime lasting longer than a year, 4. Mandatory home health visits by both an MSW and RN to do health monitoring for any person who has certain health risk factors score, and one of those risk factors would be certain races or DNA marker profiles or a zip code...
Here are some ideas based on data and non-biased observation not logical fallacy, give it a try...
Secondly like I said it’s not my job to educate or change anyone’s opinion. That’s your job, to educate yourself. And it’s your choice to choose to either remain or not to remain ignorant.
Ignorant people cant self-educate themselves to what they are ignorant to, by definition they don't know what they are looking for. This is not a point of semantics. You have been pretty carefree in casting judgment on everyone but when asked valid questions you basically just say "not my problem." So what's even the point to replying at this point?
I thought I would share with you my experiences as a straight, white, non-political, low 30's - male in nursing. To avoid doxxing myself, I'll just say that I'm in a top 10 student getting my NP. I want to be very clear, I'm not saying men shouldn't go into nursing, I am saying you should understand what you're getting yourself into. Also, these are just my experiences and you could have a totally different experience.
I have an undergraduate in computer science and completed an ABSN program because I thought I'd like to work with people. The actual nursing portion of my program was great; fundamentals, pharmacology, and pathophysiology are all important classes to master. Unfortunately these courses represented a minority of the coursework. The majority of the coursework was spent essentially preaching socialism to us under the veneer of "community health" and "ethics". Now I get it, I was a little order when I went into nursing and I have a different perspective. But every single community health or ethics class was about how evil capitalism is and how there should be a government program for everything. Full disclaimer, I voted for Hilary Clinton twice and politics isn't my thing. The bias was so overwhelming and they didn't even try to hide it. I realize that socialism / communism is fashionable with the younger crowd, but I wish I would have learned about actual community health or ethical issues in nursing.
Race Issues. Yet another disclaimer, race couldn't mean less to me. We had several lectures and guest seminars from prominent people in campus leadership tell us that it wasn't possible to racist against white people because white people have all the power. It was just ironic because that statement came from a dean at an IVY league school that is a person of color. We had a few students that were obsessed with race. We would be learning about cardiac issues and the medications that you use to treat the conditions. For those that don't know, African Americans typically don't respond well to Angiotensin Receptor Blockers (ARBs) and are typically placed on calcium channel blockers. This one girl in class went on about how it was systemic racism and prior experiences being a slave that causes African Americans to have poor cardiac health. The professor went along with it.
To summarize my ABSN experience, I learned that it was never the patients fault for their own poor outcome. The poor outcome was entirely due to being oppressed because of their race or sex; or there isn't a government program available for them to utilize. The lack of a government program to help afford a generic medication that costs less than $5/90 day supply is probably due to racism.
Well you have to remember, what you're taught is based on the evidence that exists. And that evidence is that yeah, tax funded health care is proven to be cheaper with better outcomes in literally every single other country at our level of development. Out of the top 30 countries, we're the only one who uses a completely capitalistic approach to healthcare. And it's not a coincidence that we also have the highest rate of preventable diseases and mortality because of those diseases. How did you get through school honestly believing that we have a cheaper or better healthcare system? We're objectively one of the worst, an in a bunch of places THE WORST for any 1st world country. But apparently the US is special and is the one exception to every single rule when it comes to funding anything at all, and we're the only country that the only possible thing that ever possibly work is completely unregulated capitalism.
And the younger generations don't want socialism or communism. Having our country's tax money spent on the tax payers is not socialism, it's a part of capitalism.
The problem is that you completely missed the point of your community health class and instead got caught up on "OMG THEY WANTS COMMUNISMS!!"
Also, slavery could have contributed to common trends with black health today. Remember, these people were bred. And our racism problem is definitely a contributor to their health. Walk through any black neighborhood in the country and notice the massive difference between them and any white neighborhood. When you have entire communities physically out of reach of doctors, gyms, or even adequate grocery stores, what do you expect? You think they're going to be in perfect health like someone who grew up in an area that has everything they need to be healthy? You seriously think someone living in the slums is going to have the money for routine checkups and be able to eat a healthy diet instead of relying on Chicken King where they can feed their whole family for $10?
I wouldn't get your master's yet. I honestly don't think you're ready. If you're missing these painfully obvious connections and tossing it up to political bias and propoganda, I'm not sure you're going to grasp the disease process fully enough to actually handle being an NP.
Oh, and cellphones, cars, and computers, were all ultimately developed to the point that they're at today thanks to government funded research, most commonly through contracts to develop for our military. You literally have the internet because of the same principle you're arguing against for healthcare. Capitalism doesn't magically make things cheaper. That doesn't even make sense. Capitalism is the only one with capital. Outside of capitalism, cheaper or more expensive don't even exist.
I wouldn't get your master's yet. I honestly don't think you're ready. If you're missing these painfully obvious connections and tossing it up to political bias and propoganda, I'm not sure you're going to grasp the disease process fully enough to actually handle being an NP.
Oh boy, more passive-aggressive RN behavior. More ad hominem logical fallacy attacks. What in your opinion makes one ready for a masters degree? What is a masters degree? If you are looking at it from a leadership angle then you haven't worked for many of the nurse managers I have worked for or who worked for me. I think the OP guy is more ready for his masters than most because he spoke up and spoke truth to power.
11 hours ago, TheDudeWithTheBigDog said:
Also, slavery could have contributed to common trends with black health today. Remember, these people were bred. And our racism problem is definitely a contributor to their health. Walk through any black neighborhood in the country and notice the massive difference between them and any white neighborhood. When you have entire communities physically out of reach of doctors, gyms, or even adequate grocery stores, what do you expect? You think they're going to be in perfect health like someone who grew up in an area that has everything they need to be healthy? You seriously think someone living in the slums is going to have the money for routine checkups and be able to eat a healthy diet instead of relying on Chicken King where they can feed their whole family for $10?
More BS propaganda tripe. I grew up in those neighborhoods. Sure, folks don't have a lot of money. How does racism contribute to somebody's health choices. Another straw man argument. Health is a function of choice. I lived on my Mom's welfare check (WE WERE DEAD BROKE) for for most of my childhood until I was 16 then I left home. We had access to gyms, basketball courts and doctors. No, we didn't have access to high priced specialists but we had access to MSWs, FPs and mid-levles and had plenty of basic care and preventive care. The "food desert" narrative is a huge myth: https://news.uchicago.edu/story/food-deserts-not-blame-growing-nutrition-gap-between-rich-and-poor-study-finds
We ate like garbage because it was easy and we were lazy and eating healthy sucks. Stores closed because of something called "shrinkage" and they lose more money than they make in profit. It's very simple its called the invisible hand of competition. If it were that easy to change our taste buds and get off our butts and exercise then everyone would be doing it, no matter what the race. Are you saying there is a huge conspiracy to keep black people down and oppressed by making a huge group of potential consumers/spenders have heart disease, diabetes, alcoholism, lung disease and other highly correlated to diet and chemical intake related maladies? Why would anyone do that? What is the logic???? Nobody is in perfect health these days. It's not a white super race oppressor wanna be master race conspiracy, you can thank the guys that made the computer and cell phones and Youtube and processed food and TV dinners and fast food. Everyones hurting.
Please don't take this personally, but How about you pick up a book, read some peer reviewed studies, spend time in those communities on the ground, and make your own thoughts instead of spewing out regurgitated propaganda????
We don’t have anything remotely close to capitalism in healthcare with Medicare, Medicaid, VHA, and the other government run healthcare programs. I got through school, including dozens of engineering and math courses because I understand mathematics. If we are the worst healthcare system in the world, why do foreigners come to the US for healthcare?
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And the younger generations don't want socialism or communism. Having our country's tax money spent on the tax payers is not socialism, it's a part of capitalism.
The problem is that you completely missed the point of your community health class and instead got caught up on "OMG THEY WANTS COMMUNISMS!!"
That is rich, the younger generation absolutely wants socialism and a fair number want communism. Capitalism has absolutely nothing to do with that. Socialism and communism involve seizing the means of production, to various degrees.
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Also, slavery could have contributed to common trends with black health today. Remember, these people were bred. And our racism problem is definitely a contributor to their health. Walk through any black neighborhood in the country and notice the massive difference between them and any white neighborhood. When you have entire communities physically out of reach of doctors, gyms, or even adequate grocery stores, what do you expect? You think they're going to be in perfect health like someone who grew up in an area that has everything they need to be healthy? You seriously think someone living in the slums is going to have the money for routine checkups and be able to eat a healthy diet instead of relying on Chicken King where they can feed their whole family for $10?
Who exactly do you mean by “these people” and what exactly do you mean by “our racism”? I’m no sure how racist you are, but I want nothing to do with your racism.
What you’re describing is the soft bigotry of low expectations. You don’t need a gym to be healthy and there are lots of non-African individuals that live in extremely poor conditions. What you’re describing is being poor, not a persons race. It seems that you’re unwilling to place any responsibility on the patient for their health outcomes.
If there was demand in an area of a grocery store, someone would build one. If one has not been build, why don’t you put up your own money and solve this problem?
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Oh, and cellphones, cars, and computers, were all ultimately developed to the point that they're at today thanks to government funded research, most commonly through contracts to develop for our military. You literally have the internet because of the same principle you're arguing against for healthcare. Capitalism doesn't magically make things cheaper. That doesn't even make sense. Capitalism is the only one with capital. Outside of capitalism, cheaper or more expensive don't even exist.
This isn’t even English, but I’ll take a crack at this. Most research and development does not come from the government. The US Government owns ~30K patents from its research. Google alone has over 51K patents and that is just one company.
Capitalism does make things cheaper. It’s called the economies of scale. Every person not served by the market represents a loss of revenue. The goal of capitalism is to serve everyone at a price they can afford.
When you look at who is poor in America. The majority of them are minorities. And that’s a FACT. That’s why he mentioned those people. Also I am generation Z and I can tell you what me and my peers want. We want healthcare that isn’t based on capitalism. We want healthcare that isn’t based on profit. We want healthcare where the patient life matters more than the money. We want healthcare where the hospitals serve the ill not the insurance companies. We want these things because capitalism is killing us. I don’t know what you wanna call that socialism, communism or whatever and I don’t honestly think it matters either.
When you look at who is poor in America. The majority of them are minorities. And that’s a FACT. That’s why he mentioned those people. Also I am generation Z and I can tell you what me and my peers want. We want healthcare that isn’t based on capitalism. We want healthcare that isn’t based on profit. We want healthcare where the patient life matters more than the money. We want healthcare where the hospitals serve the ill not the insurance companies. We want these things because capitalism is killing us. I don’t know what you wanna call that socialism, communism or whatever and I don’t honestly think it matters either.
Have you tried socialized medicine? Look at the VA and ask yourself if that’s what you want. Government healthcare is inferior to a market based system in all but one aspect, cost. The government must contain cost by reducing care.
NICU Guy, BSN, RN
4,161 Posts
WOW!. I didn't realize that a virus can be racist. You are telling me that if a white man and a black man go into the hospital with the exact same comorbidities, that (A): the virus is racist and will kill the black man and let the white man live or (B): all healthcare staff are racist and the black man gets inferior care?