I was cruising the hospital websites as I do everyday as a new grad and came across this:
The Department of Nursing at Massachusetts General Hospital is running a New Graduate RN ICU Residency Program for six months from April 2011 to September 2011. RN residents will be hired and trained to work successfully in an intensive care setting.
Qualified applicants MUST have:
- a Baccalaureate of Science Degree in Nursing
- a current MA RN license
- less than 10 months of professional RN experience in a healthcare setting
- completed a clinical practicum in an ICU or experience in a patient assistive role in an ICU.
RN Residents will be eligible for benefits and paid a salary of $11.44 per hour. The schedule will be 40 hours per week with five 8-hour shifts. Day/Night rotation with weekends and holidays required.
11.44 an hour? They can't be serious...can they? They pay their CNAs more!
I guess I'm having a hard time understanding how internships really differ from clinicals. We already spend lots of time in school doing clinicals, including a final semester or quarter of really intense training. How does this differ from an internship?
I do take issue with you comparing nursing to getting a PhD. It's 2 completely different things. A lot of people choose to go into nursing as a second career (myself included), and went into it initially with the idea of having a stable income, among many other benefits. I had already spent many years being poor. The idea of sucking it up to be poor for "a little while" is a little insulting when I already made sacrifices just to get through school.
I don't feel that I had nearly enough time in clinical or skills lab. I did an ABSN program. I think this also puts me at a distinct disadvantage to those who did 4 year BSN degrees. You guys have lots more clinical time. I think the whole new grad issue is related to the state of hands on education (or lack thereof) in nursing school. And let me also put this out there. There is a real lack of nurses who are willing to precept students. why? Because they don't get paid enough!!!!! If we came out of nursing school ready to quickly handle simple tasks (I didn't), we'd be a better work force!!!
So all of you experienced nurses posting about how tough it is to be a new grad, when your manager asks if you will accept a student to precept, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO SAY??????
I forget that the system is different in the US. Here in Canada, we have strong nursing unions. The majority of facilities across the country have no choice but to offer decent wages to all nurses. I'm sure they would pay less if they could. But the starting pay is fairly standard. Which is why I find this wage outrageous, because that would not be offered, or accepted up here. Thank goodness for unions.
Wow, that is crazy!! I would just keep looking until I found a real RN job. This amt of money is ludicrous for the job we do. Yes I am an experienced nurse and it has been a long time since I was a new grad, but the job is just too stressful for that low compensation. I could go be a cashier at a store with no stress, no worry of making a horrible mistake, no ones life in my hands, no one's urine, feces, vomit, ect on my clothes for that pay.
Specializes in Psych, Chem Dependency, Occ. Health.
Just out of curiosity... to all of those who believe that this is just as it *should* be:
Did you receive a paltry training wage when you obtained your first job?
No. I started at $24.00/hr in 2004. However, there was not a glut of nurses. Starting salaries and even salaries for those of us with years of experience will be dropping if nurses start jumping on $11-$12/hr. This goes way beyond a new grad program. As they pump out more and more nurses they can just keep lowering the wages. We are an expense they are always looking to cut. They must be happy dancing that so many people think $11.44/hr is better than no job at all. This is exactly what businesses want workers to think, feel and believe. $11.44 an hour sounds fine for 6 months, but what happens when all you get after that is $16-$17/hr(or less)... can you pay your mortgage and your loans on that living in MA? Once they can get you to work for $11-$12/hr, they know they can get you to take $17/hr. I'm not saying it is good or bad but this is where floor nursing/bedside nursing is going(advanced practice nursing is not far behind either!). Maybe our wages were in bubble like housing and this is just more of a normal reflection of what we should be making. Either way the downward trend in wages isn't good for any of us.
I think the opportunity is fantastic, I think what these programs are going to do to starting wages for new grads and wages for experienced nurses is a shame but it was bound to happen. It is simple economics, supply and demand.
I spoke to someone today who has first hand information about this residency. From what I was told, MGH is opening a new ICU this year and the new grad residency is an effort to offer new grad positions in the fall that otherwise wouldn't have been offered due to costs. They could easily save money by hiring experienced ICU nurses only. The residency is taking the place of the New Grad ICU program that has been offered in past years. They will be taking 40 nurses into the residency and they've been told there is a good chance at getting hired at the end. The hours are dayshift Monday through Friday for the whole 6 months. People can say what they like about the pay rate, but the spots are filling up and 40 new grads will likely have permanent ICU jobs come the fall.
I'm even earlier in my nursing career than the rest of you -- I've just applied to nursing school and am waiting to hear back. Nursing is a career change for me, and I'm so excited and eager to get started. However, I know that despite the purported national nursing shortage and projected future shortages, nursing grads in the Boston area where I live are having a heck of a hard time finding employment. This scares me a lot, but I am set in my decision to become a nurse and willing to take the risk of starting school now because this is what I really, really want to do.
Is $11.44 an hour a very low wage? Absolutely. If I were a new grad today, would I want to get in? Heck yeah, you betcha! Sure, my first choice would be to get into an ICU at a normal new nurse's pay, but I'm pretty sure that opportunity doesn't exist around here. MGH is offering the chance for new grads to start working and learning skills -- in an ICU, no less! -- and the possibility of a full-paying job down the line. It's sad that the pay is so low, but it's a fantastic opportunity in this area at this time.
The fact is that there's a lousy economy out there, and there are a ton of new nursing graduates competing for a handful of jobs around here. And from what I've heard from seasoned nurses, you really don't know much about nursing coming right out of nursing school. It takes a while for a new nurse to become good at nursing, and this period of learning is expensive for hospitals. I think it's a good thing that MGH found a way to get so many new nurses the training they need; I only hope an option like this is out there when I graduate.
No. I started at $24.00/hr in 2004. However, there was not a glut of nurses. Starting salaries and even salaries for those of us with years of experience will be dropping if nurses start jumping on $11-$12/hr. This goes way beyond a new grad program. As they pump out more and more nurses they can just keep lowering the wages. We are an expense they are always looking to cut. They must be happy dancing that so many people think $11.44/hr is better than no job at all. This is exactly what businesses want workers to think, feel and believe. $11.44 an hour sounds fine for 6 months, but what happens when all you get after that is $16-$17/hr(or less)... can you pay your mortgage and your loans on that living in MA? Once they can get you to work for $11-$12/hr, they know they can get you to take $17/hr.
Exactly. The overall implications are a little scary in the long run, especially if 'internships' like this do end up becoming more common. The overall effect is that wages can and may get suppressed because they know people will be willing to work for less.
So the economy is bad...and new grads (and nurses alike) are expected to suck it up and eat dirt? And be grateful? I'm not buying it. While it is expensive to train new grads, don't be fooled. These hospitals are major corporations, and still making a profit. If they can't afford the costs, then take it from the big CEO's making say 200 grand a year. Not the little guys, who can barely survive on 11 dollars an hour. Its ludicrous that people would ever think that an RN should/ would work for that pay. If it were me, and MGH was the only option, I would move. No question. But of course, when people are desperate, they will believe that this hospital is truly doing them a "favour".
Specializes in Med/Surge, Geriatrics(LTC), Pediatricts,.
DisneybearRN, most who have "been there done that" have done just that, been threw the low paying positions just to get the experience and their foot in the door of that sought after position. No different than Dr's who do volunteer work in programs such as the "Dr's without boundaries" so they can resume build, and in most times, do something for the good of humanity, rather than always looking for the price tag on things. If you start off at the top of the ladder, you have no place to go but down. As far as paying back loans, there is the six month grace period for majority of loans, or the payment plan of making payments while still in school, means you have to work fulltime and go to school fulltime, making many sacrifices to obtain your goal, but if you really want it baddly enough, you'll do it. You'll find a way to make it happen. Experience is the thing on the resume, not how much you made, or expect to make, that goes on the application for the job. But in order to get to the application process, you have to build a resume worth HR's time to read. I can hear many scoffing at "volunteering" about now, but what looks better on a resume? That you volunteered your time, did a missionary trip, or some such, or sat home by the phone waiting for that gem of a position to be called for? And what pays back the loans faster? Doing some volunteering, and work yourself into the job, or sitting by watching everyone else go to work? Many prestegious hospitals are doing this same program, mostly to see if you have what it takes to be part of their team.
I have never questioned whether this could be a good opportunity for learning. I have ONLY questioned the pay scale. I cannot afford, have the time, nor have any desire to volunteer for 40 hour weeks. I have always worked and will continue to do so. I have a new grad position lined up so I am not interested in this anyway. No one wants to discuss the pay, which almost everyone says its low, and then goes off on a why it is such a good opportunity, what a great experience, new grads are basically losers, whatever. The intent of this thread was never about questioning that. If they offered a measly 6 dollars more I wouldn't have even created this thread! We have covered a lot here, most of it off topic, but I have enjoyed reading everyone's responses. It has turned into quite a hot topic, so something is definitely interesting about this offer. For me, I need to make a decent wage now, not in six months. if I couldn't find a nursing job, I would do something else until something came up, or if nothing did, I wouldn't work in nursing! No big deal. As I said, I will be starting a job at more than 11.44, so I am covered. I can tell you that if my only option was to start at 11.44, or if that becomes the norm I wouldn't have considered nursing. I am sure that many new grads and potential people considering nursing will feel the same way. Remember I said many, I know all positions are filled before I get told that again. While I value the wisdom of those that have been in nursing a longer time, I was always focused on the impact of 11.44 on new grads and those that might be considering nursing. That is the discussion that I wanted to have, but so few really want to have it. For those that want to take "advantage" of it, good for them. I just think that a new precedent might be starting here, and it may or may not be a good thing in the long run. Time will tell, because no one on here, including myself can predict the future. I just wanted to discuss its possible impact and the fact that the program really could have offered a little more cash. I think it is time I began another topic! Keep the passion and dialog going, and never forget that we were all new grads at one time! Peace Out!
Hey, congrats on the new job! You have one at least one more employment opportunity lined up than I do. And thanks for launching a fascinating discussion.
pexx (will work for pennies)
I have a new grad position lined up so I am not interested in this anyway...Time will tell, because no one on here, including myself can predict the future. I just wanted to discuss its possible impact and the fact that the program really could have offered a little more cash. I think it is time I began another topic! Keep the passion and dialog going, and never forget that we were all new grads at one time! Peace Out!
Alvindudley
52 Posts
I don't feel that I had nearly enough time in clinical or skills lab. I did an ABSN program. I think this also puts me at a distinct disadvantage to those who did 4 year BSN degrees. You guys have lots more clinical time. I think the whole new grad issue is related to the state of hands on education (or lack thereof) in nursing school. And let me also put this out there. There is a real lack of nurses who are willing to precept students. why? Because they don't get paid enough!!!!! If we came out of nursing school ready to quickly handle simple tasks (I didn't), we'd be a better work force!!!
So all of you experienced nurses posting about how tough it is to be a new grad, when your manager asks if you will accept a student to precept, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO SAY??????