MGH is offering new grad ICU internship for $11.44 an hour?

nursing_girl1210 · Feb 17, 2011

can someone tell me where on the website i can go to get more information about this program? thanks.

nursing_girl1210 · Feb 17, 2011

nevermind, i found it. thanks

April, RN, BSN, RN · Feb 17, 2011

I would honestly recommend working on a PCU or specialty step-down at a livable wage and then transitioning into the ICU if that's what you want to do.

That's the problem. There's been very little hiring of new grads at Boston hospitals over the past few years in ANY department, not just ICUs. There are thousands of new grads and now "old grads" competing for very few new grad position. That's why this residency is so appealing to some. Yes, the pay is low, but it's a foot in the door for a permanent position at the end of the 6 months which would then pay the normal new grad rate.

Nurse Lulu · Feb 17, 2011

Most other professions (physicians, lawyers, etc.) have unpaid internships....and nursing will be heading that way as well..... I have already seen positions posted here i the midwest

joanna73, BSN, RN · Feb 17, 2011

Maybe I'm confused...perhaps it varies from state to state. But, where I did my BSN, we had mandatory clinicals for 4 years straight (unpaid). In the last semester, we were required to work full time hours, so four months, with a preceptor. By midterm, we were expected to assume the full patient load, with minimal supervision, in the final semester. Therefore, many of us have completed an internship, as part of the program. After becoming licensed, most people would expect a decent wage. Sure, maybe not even full RN pay. But something more reasonable than what that facility is offering.

Nurse Lulu · Feb 17, 2011

Thats not what Im saying, BSN clinicals to my knowledge, all have these types of hours. Those are part of education time. Even after that grads in other professional programs often take unpaid internsips for specialty programs or highly sought areas. Unpopular thought I know, but if the poster really wants critical care that is a choice they may have to make.

DisneybearRN · Feb 17, 2011

Wow! I really had no idea my first post would start such debate! I am really enjoying it. I just reread everything and even those that are defending this program so vehemently usually say the pay is low. Their answer is who cares, take it or leave it, you should be so lucky. My whole point was that the pay is low..we really do all agree if you were to reread this thread! I have also seen the idea that it is better than if they offered you nothing for this "priceless" training. Is it really all that black and white? I wonder. In my opinion, there is absolutely no reason why they could not offer the program to fewer people and pay a little more than a UAP! Why is that such an unreasonable suggestion? Why is it take it or leave it? Couldn't it be tweaked a little bit? I really wasn't going to write anymore on the subject because no amount of brow beating is gonna change my mind. The rate is too low and it can definitely can have repercussions on the nursing profession in my opinion. The most staunchest defenders here for the most part AGREE it is low and there really is no good defense of it in my opinion. Just offer it to a few less people! I am gonna start " The rate is damn low" party and run for office like that "Rent is too damn high" guy!

P.S. Passions are definitely running high on this, but I hope we can debate and keep it civil.

DisneybearRN · Feb 17, 2011

I also thought that nurses would have stood together on this issue. I unfortunately am sadly disappointed. Wouldn't it benefit nursing if we all strove for more money? I have read things like "they could have offered nothing, too bad..go do something else, stop whining, and if you don't think this is a great opportunity you are basically a fool!" All this from mostly people that are not new grads who are not affected by it. It might be an odd concept for us as nurses, but perhaps some empathy, or at least sympathy might be more useful. Don't we want nurses old and new to be happy? Doesn't that help us all out in the long run? Shouldn't we be constantly striving to make things better for us all? New grads are struggling, we need your support, as do we need to make sure that nursing stays attractive if the upcoming shortage is true. I also can't get my head around the argument that hospitals shouldn't pay for training their nurses. With the average cost of a college education for many hitting over the 40,000 dollar mark, it is unreasonable to think that new nurses can afford, nor are excited to take on unpaid or below prevailing wage internships. If that becomes the norm, I can really see a catastrophic nursing shortage in the future with hospitals having to close their doors. Like it or not, people are entering nursing for it's perceived prestige and financial rewards, in addition to wanting to "help people". The days of everyone entering because they have a "calling" I think are long gone. There will be plenty other ways to "help people" that will become more attractive and far less of a financial burden in the future should nursing lose its competitiveness. I really don't think that defending that wage endears anyone to nursing, especially suffering new grads right now. It may be an economic reality, but I really can't see how anyone can be happy with it! Those that are complaining about it, are either appalled or as I said could use a little sympathy. Those that are defending it I believe are not helping most of us who have to deal with this new reality. Please don't eat us! We are more to be pitied than censured!

kajh20 · Feb 17, 2011

Hmmm.... interesting development. That compensation seems way too low.

But it doesn't surprise me to see hospitals not wanting to pay "full price" for new grads who want special role transition programs. Those programs are expensive for the hospitals to run. I suspect we will start seeing many more hospitals either offering only a "training wage" for such programs -- or requiring signed contracts with "pay back provisions" to recoup their educational costs if the new grad leaves before working a certain number of hours.

In response to the above: RN internships/transistion programs initially cost the hospitals more to run but ultimately greatly benefit the facility thru recruitment + retention. It significantly costs a facility a tremendous amount of money when they fire/hire/rns LV. The NCSBN had an article re: requiring new grads to enter one of these programs due to the increased safety rates, retention + satisfaction, etc. Studies have shown that the RN's who have been thru such a program remain @ a facility for longer durations.

It totally makes sense, and of course you can live off a low wage, student loans give option of paying a percentage of your income. Its sad that one would be as prestigious to say that they are a nurse + shouldn't make less than a specified amount. An RN is no better than a CNA, the CNA is the eyes + ears for the nurse-we all do what we have to do in order to get by or get where we need to be. Or perhaps you should've become a plumber where you may be more likely to role out of school into a high paying job, take a look @ what's been going on w/the economy + roll w/it. Or fight it + be miserable all b/c your pride gets in the way.

coffeegirl7 · Feb 17, 2011

I also thought that nurses would have stood together on this issue. I unfortunately am sadly disappointed. Wouldn't it benefit nursing if we all strove for more money? I have read things like "they could have offered nothing, too bad..go do something else, stop whining, and if you don't think this is a great opportunity you are basically a fool!" All this from mostly people that are not new grads who are not affected by it. It might be an odd concept for us as nurses, but perhaps some empathy, or at least sympathy might be more useful. Don't we want nurses old and new to be happy? Doesn't that help us all out in the long run? Shouldn't we be constantly striving to make things better for us all? New grads are struggling, we need your support, as do we need to make sure that nursing stays attractive if the upcoming shortage is true. I also can't get my head around the argument that hospitals shouldn't pay for training their nurses. With the average cost of a college education for many hitting over the 40,000 dollar mark, it is unreasonable to think that new nurses can afford, nor are excited to take on unpaid or below prevailing wage internships. If that becomes the norm, I can really see a catastrophic nursing shortage in the future with hospitals having to close their doors. Like it or not, people are entering nursing for it's perceived prestige and financial rewards, in addition to wanting to "help people". The days of everyone entering because they have a "calling" I think are long gone. There will be plenty other ways to "help people" that will become more attractive and far less of a financial burden in the future should nursing lose its competitiveness. I really don't think that defending that wage endears anyone to nursing, especially suffering new grads right now. It may be an economic reality, but I really can't see how anyone can be happy with it! Those that are complaining about it, are either appalled or as I said could use a little sympathy. Those that are defending it I believe are not helping most of us who have to deal with this new reality. Please don't eat us! We are more to be pitied than censured!

I don't think anyone was here to not want to help people-a point I made was that I had to work hard to get a job that was well paying, once i had experience. I graduated during the last nursing job shortage (1994). There were very few jobs for new grads. I was offered a pediatric internship in South Carolina making 8, yes 8 dollars an hour. I would have had to relocate, live away from my friends and family, and try to support myself on that. I turned it down because the pay was too low. I was disappointed, but couldn't financially do it. MGH isn't doing something new here-this same low wage for a training program beyond school was happening back then too. In a previous thread, I said I worked 3 jobs until I found a nursing job that paid an acceptable wage-and that was after I had a year of nursing experience. You as new grads aren't the first to go through this. Having gone through it first hand, I know what you are going through-but, unfortunately, this is the way it is right now, as it was in the mid 90's. It will turn around (hopefully) but in the meantime, my advice to any new grad, is jump at the chance to get what experience you can. It's invaluable to your career if you take the initiative to learn where you can get the opportunity. And if you can't afford it, I get that...completely understand where you are coming from, as i have been there. Good luck to you in your job search.

llg, PhD, RN · Feb 17, 2011

I was just reading about the benefits of internships (paid or unpaid) for graduate students in all disciplines -- and recalled my own experience as a research/teaching assistant for 4.5 years while in grad school. I made less than 50% of what I would have made working for a hospital (as a nurse with 12 years experience and an MSN) -- but that experience was what got me my first job as a new PhD. And the skills learned and practice in that assistant role are a significant part of my practice today.

Yes, I was poor for a while -- but I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. It was the best job I ever had. I loved it and learned so much that I value greatly.

Perhaps it's time for nursing to consider new models of education -- and of integrating new graduates into professional practice. Maybe we should look at how other professions do it -- such as medicine and law and engineering and the humanities ... etc. Many of those disciplines include interships (paid and/or unpaid) as part of the expected transition from student to professional. I believe we should have discussions of the various options so that a consensus can be reached about what level of pay is appropriate for people who looking to employers to "finish off" their education.

April, RN, BSN, RN · Feb 17, 2011

Disneybear,

Those of us who are supporting programs like MGH's ARE supporting today's new grads. The fact that those of us that already have jobs were paid the traditional salary doesn't really matter now. There were job opportunities for us then. They just don't exist right now. And as Ilg and coffeegirl pointed out, internships for RNs is not a new idea. I've seen way too many heartbroken new grads over the last few years that despite their grades, connections, and work experience can not find a job. Just look at the threads on this forum. New grads in MA are filling out hundreds of applications with no call backs. There just aren't jobs enough to go around. I'd much rather see new grads getting experience in an internship than sitting at home, looking for jobs day in and day out with no luck, and eventually going back to school for another career. So many people are going to nursing thinking it's economy proof, but the public is finally starting to realize that it's not the case. People aren't going to avoid nursing because they might have to do a 6 month internship after graduation in order to land a job. They are going to avoid nursing if they can't get a job at all... which is the case for many right now.