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Measles, Mumps, Rubella... Forgotten but NOT Gone

Pediatric Article   (30,429 Views 162 Comments 868 Words)
by NotReady4PrimeTime NotReady4PrimeTime, RN (Moderator) Nurse

NotReady4PrimeTime is a RN and works as a RN, CNCCP(C).

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There is no decision more personal than whether or not to immunize one's children. Information regarding the safety and effectiveness of today's vaccines is readily available but is overshadowed by opinion and hyperbole offered up by celebrities and others. In light of significant recent outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases all over North America, it's a good idea to explore the issues. You are reading page 7 of Measles, Mumps, Rubella... Forgotten but NOT Gone. If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

Spidey's mom works as a RN.

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As a school nurse I really appreciate this article! Luckily we don't have that many vaccine exemptions in my county. I find the whole anti-vaccine argument a bit amusing. There's all this "research" by parents and yet they take the word of some books or "articles" over medical professionals who have spent years learning about the human body. Yes autism rates are on the rise, but people fail to understand that our understanding of autism has changed over the years as well. More children are being identified as autistic and receiving the proper treatment instead of the olden days when they will just label that kid as the "strange kid down the block" or what have you. Same for ADHD. My mom got diagnosed with ADHD in her 30's. Back them people would think of my mom as just a Chatty Kathy and not have a medical condition. I get that not all of the anti-vaxers believe in the autism link, but unless you come at me with a double-blind study from a legitimate peer-reviewed journal please try again.

California passed a law regarding exemptions attempting to make sure that parents got good medical information before an exemption could be granted. The point was to make sure parents had to make a medical appointment with a physician or other provider and listen to them talk about why not vaccinating your child is bad science. We don't have many folks asking for exemptions here fortunately.

It is AB2109. PBE FAQs

(I'm adding this link for you Kenderella)

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/08/26/paul-offit-threatens-religious-and-philosphical-vaccine-exemptions-a-respose-by-suzanne-humphries-md/

Edited by Spidey's mom

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coughdrop.2.go has 3 years experience and works as a Public Health Nurse.

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California passed a law regarding exemptions attempting to make sure that parents got good medical information before an exemption could be granted. The point was to make sure parents had to make a medical appointment with a physician or other provider and listen to them talk about why not vaccinating your child is bad science. We don't have many folks asking for exemptions here fortunately.

It is AB2109. PBE FAQs

(I'm adding this link for you Kenderella)

In Vaccines We Trust? Paul Offit threatens religious and philosophical vaccine exemptions. A response by Suzanne Humphries, MD | International Medical Council on Vaccination

Lol that article! And the pictures! Yes there are extremist on both sides of the aisle and as much of a pro-vaccine person I feel yes parent have the right to refuse vaccines for their kids. The problem is where they get their information from. Like that website....

I also love our new PBE law in California! I also appreciate that School Nurses can opt out of having to direct the educational session with parents. Our public health department can do the consultation with a physician for about $35 and have the form signed. I've heard a couple of parents have changed their mind during the session. Also, signing the back of the blue card was just way to convenient for parents who just didn't want to make the appointment. Especially during the TDAP law changes. That's when most of the exemptions happened. Now they have to go anyway!

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please, find. there is other work by Klenner. also, paulings vitamin C studies "couldn't be replicated" ...because his hypothesis wasn't followed, could it be the same here?

I remember this study in one of my biology classes. However, this study has yet to be duplicated in large clinical trials and isn't well received in the medical community. I wish I still had the links effectively critiquing that study.

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coughdrop.2.go has 3 years experience and works as a Public Health Nurse.

12,767 Visitors; 709 Posts

please, find. there is other work by Klenner. also, paulings vitamin C studies "couldn't be replicated" ...because his hypothesis wasn't followed, could it be the same here?

I assuming you meant "method" not hypothesis. Hypothesis is an educated guess and the method is what you use to determine the legitimacy of a study. And just because someone publishes a study doesn't mean it's accurate. May I bring up Andrew Wakefield?

So I went to pubmed and did some a search of ascorbic acid and poliomyelitis. What I did find was a couple of studies about scurvy and misdiagnosis of polio because they have similar signs and symptoms. Obviously vitamin c improved the health of the children with scurvy. Studies I did find about monkeys infected with polio and given vitamin c did not improve. I'm not saying this Dr. Klenner fudged his data but there is a reason why the medical community has not widely accepted his vitamin c studies. I also looked in to Dr. Klenner and all his work is on how vitamin c should be used to treat a wide variety of diseases. Here is a paper on viral pneumonia with treatment of vitamin c. "Could it be that, by maintaining a high blood level of this vitamin, all body tissue is allowed to return to normal in spite of the existing fever and the presence of the specific organism, and that, acting as a respiratory catalyst, it enables the body to build up adequate resistance to the invader?" Come on!

Virus Pneumonia and Its Treatment With Vitamin C

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If you want to exercise your right to not vaccinate your children, that's fine. I don't think that they should be allowed in school to put other children at risk.

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Spidey's mom works as a RN.

5 Likes; 4 Followers; 76,168 Visitors; 11,279 Posts

Lol that article! And the pictures! Yes there are extremist on both sides of the aisle and as much of a pro-vaccine person I feel yes parent have the right to refuse vaccines for their kids. The problem is where they get their information from. Like that website....

I also love our new PBE law in California! I also appreciate that School Nurses can opt out of having to direct the educational session with parents. Our public health department can do the consultation with a physician for about $35 and have the form signed. I've heard a couple of parents have changed their mind during the session. Also, signing the back of the blue card was just way to convenient for parents who just didn't want to make the appointment. Especially during the TDAP law changes. That's when most of the exemptions happened. Now they have to go anyway!

Yeah, that was the point. Making it hard for those parents who simply didn't want to take the time to get their kiddo immunized-hoping that requiring parents to make an appointment with a medical provider to get the exemption would just be too much of a bother and they'd get the kids immunized. But, they added Credentialed School Nurses at the end of the list for medical providers. Most of us say we do not have the time because school nurses here only work part time and cannot get all the mandated stuff done anyway so how would we have time to make appointment with parents (who rarely show up for an IEP!) and talk with them. I'm swamped with H&V and careplans for kids who have illnesses or take meds.

I'm also not a fan of the government mandating us . . . .but parents do have other options if they truly don't want to immunize their kids. Private school and home school are options.

We have to tell the parents that if there is an outbreak of . .say . . chicken pox at school (due to folks not vaccinating) then their unvaccinated child has to stay out of school for a couple of weeks. Most parents both work and wouldn't want that to happen. Who'd watch the kids for two weeks?

I assuming you meant "method" not hypothesis. Hypothesis is an educated guess and the method is what you use to determine the legitimacy of a study. And just because someone publishes a study doesn't mean it's accurate. May I bring up Andrew Wakefield?

So I went to pubmed and did some a search of ascorbic acid and poliomyelitis. What I did find was a couple of studies about scurvy and misdiagnosis of polio because they have similar signs and symptoms. Obviously vitamin c improved the health of the children with scurvy. Studies I did find about monkeys infected with polio and given vitamin c did not improve. I'm not saying this Dr. Klenner fudged his data but there is a reason why the medical community has not widely accepted his vitamin c studies. I also looked in to Dr. Klenner and all his work is on how vitamin c should be used to treat a wide variety of diseases. Here is a paper on viral pneumonia with treatment of vitamin c. "Could it be that, by maintaining a high blood level of this vitamin, all body tissue is allowed to return to normal in spite of the existing fever and the presence of the specific organism, and that, acting as a respiratory catalyst, it enables the body to build up adequate resistance to the invader?" Come on!

Virus Pneumonia and Its Treatment With Vitamin C

Thank you - Pubmed is my go-to place for research as well and I read those same studies. Like I said, I spent a happy hour this morning reading. I love medical research.

On a break but that break is over now . . . .:wavey:

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one reason is cost. or lack there. I think I am using hypothesis correctly, if you are trying to replicate a study you must perform it with the same parameters, not select your own and then say it doesn't work. And what trouble do you have with his wording? from a different time.

I assuming you meant "method" not hypothesis. Hypothesis is an educated guess and the method is what you use to determine the legitimacy of a study. And just because someone publishes a study doesn't mean it's accurate. May I bring up Andrew Wakefield?

So I went to pubmed and did some a search of ascorbic acid and poliomyelitis. What I did find was a couple of studies about scurvy and misdiagnosis of polio because they have similar signs and symptoms. Obviously vitamin c improved the health of the children with scurvy. Studies I did find about monkeys infected with polio and given vitamin c did not improve. I'm not saying this Dr. Klenner fudged his data but there is a reason why the medical community has not widely accepted his vitamin c studies. I also looked in to Dr. Klenner and all his work is on how vitamin c should be used to treat a wide variety of diseases. Here is a paper on viral pneumonia with treatment of vitamin c. "Could it be that, by maintaining a high blood level of this vitamin, all body tissue is allowed to return to normal in spite of the existing fever and the presence of the specific organism, and that, acting as a respiratory catalyst, it enables the body to build up adequate resistance to the invader?" Come on!

Virus Pneumonia and Its Treatment With Vitamin C

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BostonFNP works as a Primary Care NP.

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one reason is cost. or lack there. I think I am using hypothesis correctly, if you are trying to replicate a study you must perform it with the same parameters, not select your own and then say it doesn't work. And what trouble do you have with his wording? from a different time.

You are talking about method not hypothesis.

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Spidey's mom works as a RN.

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I couldn't find this thread all afternoon and was so sad! It wasn't in my bookmarks anymore. Searched for the OP and found it just now.

I'm glad I found it - this is an interesting topic. One close to my heart as a school nurse who worked L&D and ER for my first 9 years as a Registered Nurse. Plus, I love medicine.

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coughdrop.2.go has 3 years experience and works as a Public Health Nurse.

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one reason is cost. or lack there. I think I am using hypothesis correctly, if you are trying to replicate a study you must perform it with the same parameters, not select your own and then say it doesn't work. And what trouble do you have with his wording? from a different time.

First off, From Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

Definition of HYPOTHESIS: 1a: an assumption or concession made for the sake of argument; b: an interpretation of a practical situation or condition taken as the ground for action2:a tentative assumption made in order to draw out and test its logical or empirical consequences

3:the antecedent clause of a conditional statement

Definition of METHOD: 1: a procedure or process for attaining an object: as a(1): a systematic procedure, technique, or mode of inquiry employed by or proper to a particular discipline or art (2): a systematic plan followed in presenting material for instruction; b(1):a way, technique, or process of or for doing something (2): a body of skills or techniques

You replicate the method not a hypothesis. My hypothesis does not have to be the same to replicate a study. My hypothesis could be to determine if blah, blah, blah's original study can be replicated or whatever.

A replication study is a project that repeats—either precisely or in large part—the same research methods that were used in an earlier project. A replication study is typically designed to perform one of four functions: Assess the results of an earlier investigation in order to confirm or disconfirm the reported outcomes of that investigation. Repeat an earlier investigation at a later date in order to judge how stable the results have remained with the passing of time and to estimate the causes of any changes that occurred. Alter some aspect of the earlier methodology in order to discover what effect such alteration has on the outcome. Apply the earlier method to a different group of people or different set of events in order to learn whether conclusions derived from the earlier study apply equally well to those different people or events.

Replicating Others' Research : SAGE Research Methods

Second, I don't have trouble with his wording. And it's the 1900's not the 1800's so my comprehension is fine. I have a problem with his belief that high levels of vitamin C will somehow reverse the damage caused by a pathogen or organism to "boost" the immune system and allow the body to fight off the disease or invader.

Edited by coughdrop.2.go
go bold or go home

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BostonFNP works as a Primary Care NP.

18 Likes; 1 Follower; 3 Articles; 54,184 Visitors; 5,223 Posts

This really highlights the importance of research methods and scholarly research as part of the nursing curriculum at all levels.

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