Measles, Mumps, Rubella... Forgotten but NOT Gone

There is no decision more personal than whether or not to immunize one's children. Information regarding the safety and effectiveness of today's vaccines is readily available but is overshadowed by opinion and hyperbole offered up by celebrities and others. In light of significant recent outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases all over North America, it's a good idea to explore the issues. Nurses Announcements Archive Article

To immunize or not to immunize... that is the question. When I was growing up, there really wasn't any controversy - when we were in certain grades, we were all lined up at school and the public health nurse either gave us a shot in the arm or a little pink drop of sugary liquid on a plastic spoon. I have a nice, circular scar on each of my upper arms just below my shoulders that signify my immunization against smallpox, the only disease to have been declared eradicated from the Earth. When my children were small they each were given their shots according to the vaccination schedule of the time. It's what we did. Then came Andrew Wakefield.

The study published by Mr Wakefield purported to link immunizations with the development of autism and it set the world on its ear. The fact that this study has been debunked scientifically a number of times seems not to penetrate the consciousness of a growing group of parents who feel that herd immunity will protect their children. The principle of herd immunity is simple: if enough of a herd of any species is immune to a microbe the odds of an outbreak of that microbial disease are extremely low. And should an outbreak occur, it rapidly diminishes as the number of susceptible hosts drops. Well, guess what... the herd isn't immune any more.

Outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases like measles, mumps, rubella, pertussis and varicella have been documented all over complacent North America. Combined with a falling immunization rate, high-speed intercontinental travel allows these diseases to gain a toehold and then they are free to run rampant through populations with low or NO herd immunity. Communicability begins before the infected host becomes symptomatic, so spread is difficult to contain once it begins. Measles had been declared eliminated in the Americas in 2002, with small sporadic outbreaks annually; there were 85 cases on the continent in 2005 and as many as 253 in 2010. But in 2011, the WHO American region reported the highest number of cases seen since the disease was reported eliminated. My city has just recorded its second measles case in as many weeks after years of zero cases and we've had two infants with congenital rubella admitted to our PICU in recent months.

"So what's the big deal?" people say. Health care has changed since the 50s and 60s, and kids don't die of vaccine-preventable diseases any more. Right? Wrong. Children and adults DO die of these diseases, although the number is small and complication rates remain manageable. For now, at least. Even so, people still believe that it's all hype and not really anything to worry about. They forget about the children and adults who are unable to be immunized, not for lack of wanting it but because of other health issues. Children with cancer, blood dyscrasias, organ transplants and certain neurological disorders cannot be immunized against certain diseases. Adults who have been inadequately immunized as children for whatever reason are also at risk. And it's this population who are at risk for dying from chicken pox. Or measles. Or to become sterile from the mumps. Or to have a baby with severe anomalies from congenital rubella. It's not a joke.

In the course of researching my family tree I have come across entire families wiped out by pertussis and measles, and others by typhus, cholera, or scarlet fever (infections that while not vaccine preventable, have been essentially eradicated by modern-day antibiotics and sanitation practices). I'm always deeply saddened when I find them, and I fear that if the current complacency and disdain for immunization continue we may find ourselves right back there.

As pediatric nurses we have a unique opportunity to help make this better. We have many teachable moments in the course of our workday where we could reinforce the message that not only are vaccinations safe and effective, but also that parents aren't only protecting their own children, they're protecting those they encounter out in the world who aren't lucky enough to be able to protect themselves. We can remind them that no one knows what the future might bring and that someday they may find themselves with a child who can't be immunized. I remember a family that had 5 children. None of them were immunized because the mom was opposed. Their fourth child became critically ill and needed a heart transplant. The discussions with this mother were intense and, on some level vaguely threatening when it was pointed out that the child would surely die if one of the siblings brought home a vaccine-preventable disease after going through a transplant. She asked for some time to research things and in the end agreed to have all of her children immunized.

My challenge to you is to examine your own thoughts and feelings about vaccinations from a scientific rather than an emotional perspective. Then I challenge you to formulate your responses to parents who are on the fence about having their children immunized so you have them ready when the opportunity arises. Our future is counting on you.

Specializes in School Nursing, Public Health Nurse.
Yes, all medications have potential side effects. And if doctors are doing their jobs, both ethically and legally, they are informing their patients of the potential side effects so that patients can decide for themselves whether or not the benefits outweigh the risks. Lest we forget, patients have a right to self-determination, and parents of children have that same right to decide for their children. The difference between vaccines and other medications is that everyone recognizes and accepts that FACT about other medications, but some would strip patients of that right when it comes to vaccines if they could.

As for the stats on vaccines on the HRSA website, you have misquoted some information. There is NO data for vaccines ADMINISTERED, only data for doses DISTRIBUTED, which can be quite a difference. Doses distributed includes vaccines that go to warehouses, vaccines that expire, those dropped or have otherwise become contaminated, etc. So the number is naturally inflated with no way to know how many have actually been administered.

Further, cases that were dismissed tells me nothing since cases of ALL types are dismissed in court all the time due to a lack of evidence at the time it is presented. Some cases are re-filed when adequate evidence is available; some are dismissed because they weren't filed in the required time-frame but not because they lacked evidence; others are likely dismissed for other technical reasons. Dismissal of a case does NOT equal no injury from a vaccine in all cases.

Yes, the court made the determination in these cases. HRSA and the CDC are the last groups that one would expect to admit an injury linked to vaccines. Do you think that they have not consulted tons of doctors and scientists in these matters??? They would not admit to ANY injuries if they could get away with it (and did so for a long time), so if they can see a link between vaccines and injury, that's good enough for me.

As for the increase in autism cases, nobody is claiming that they are ALL due to vaccine injury!

Yes I misquoted. However, even if HALF of those doses were administered and the rest wasted there is still not even close to less than half a percent of compensated cases. And last time I checked the court does not do outside consulting with scientist and doctors for specific cases. It is up to each side to bring in experts to testify. I've known judges to do outside research but not to call upon specific people to testify for more knowledge in a case. And no one said vaccines do not cause injury. The issue is vaccines are being treated as a horrible, forced upon, government funded operation that does more harm than good. What we have been trying to state is that vaccine leads to more good and than bad when it comes to public health and safety.

Personally, I think I'll stick with the sources that are solid and verifiable, thanks. I'm sure others will agree.

You've stated that those who choose not to vaccinate have NO DUTY to explain themselves to ANYONE. I find it strange that you've chosen to bombard this thread with your posts doing what you state you are under absolutely no obligation to do - "explaining" yourself. Seems to me that it's more to your own benefit, to justify it all to yourself. You certainly aren't going to change the thinking of anyone here. We know the facts.

That's right; I DON'T have a DUTY to explain, which is completely different than CHOOSING to explain. The ONLY reason I even mentioned it was because so many were hounding the OP to provide links to her research to "prove" herself. And NOTHING that I posted was in any way an attempt to change anyone's mind. And lest you think otherwise, I have not even begun to post everything that lead to my personal decision. I posted enough to show support to OP, and to attempt to dispel the ASSUMPTION that non-vaxers have no edumacation, can't critical think, that we be to ignernt to put to thawts tagether! Also dispel the notion that the only source of our information is Dr. Wakefield and Jenny McCarthy, thank you very much!

You certainly have the right to continue to follow the sheep and believe mainstream medicine. I expected nothing less.

You must be referring to the pre-nursing student, not the op. The op is not anti-vax.

I didn't notice anybody "hounding" the pre-nursing student. The thing is, though, that if one comes in here and makes claims, it's only reasonable to expect that individual to offer sound evidence for her/his position. This is required for the maintenance of scientific integrity.

Specializes in School Nursing, Public Health Nurse.
See, these are the kind of assumptions that irk me! Who says I trust my doctor's opinion on ANYTHING? I am a fairly intelligent person; I question EVERYTHING and then decide for myself. I may ask for my doctor's opinion on a topic, but that doesn't mean that I follow lock-step with her opinions or recommendations! I rarely do something without first getting opinions from multiple sources, as do those I know who don't vaccinate, or who don't follow traditional treatments for certain illnesses.

One of my sisters, a niece, and brother-in-law are medical doctors; the same sister and her husband are also chiropractors; another sister is an RN; a different sister is a PA; a nephew holds an MS degree in biology, and NONE of them vaccinate! Then there's myself with a BSN--hardly an illiterate bunch. I know doctors personally that I work with who do not vaccinate, and I know of many more who do not vaccinate. If vaccines are so safe and not "truly" harmful, one has to wonder why so many people in the medical field choose to NOT vaccinate THEIR children, even if they feel that they must recommend vaccines to their patients or risk being sued???

Interesting because I know a ton of people in the medical field that vaccinate their children. Where do you get that so many people with medical backgrounds do not vaccinate their kids? I personally do not know a single nurse, doctor, PA, etc. that is against vaccines. Even my neighbor who is Nurse and was afflicted by Guillain-Barré after vaccines in the military. All her children are vaccinated with all recommended and required vaccinations.

No one says you cannot question vaccines or other medications, but who are your "multiple sources" that you get your opinion from? None of it is evidenced-based. And evidence-based practice is the core of our profession. You can't throw that out the window for baseless conspiracy theories and conjecture.

Specializes in School Nursing, Public Health Nurse.

You certainly have the right to continue to follow the sheep and believe mainstream medicine. I expected nothing less.

I didn't realize my whole nursing education turned me in to a sheep and was only based on "mainstream medicine". I don't know what my professors were thinking when they told me to rely on peer-reviewed articles from legitimate sources to guide my nursing profession. Excuse me while I got throw my Perry and Potter out the window to learn the TRUTH!

Yes I misquoted. However, even if HALF of those doses were administered and the rest wasted there is still not even close to less than half a percent of compensated cases. And last time I checked the court does not do outside consulting with scientist and doctors for specific cases. It is up to each side to bring in experts to testify. I've known judges to do outside research but not to call upon specific people to testify for more knowledge in a case. And no one said vaccines do not cause injury. The issue is vaccines are being treated as a horrible, forced upon, government funded operation that does more harm than good. What we have been trying to state is that vaccine leads to more good and than bad when it comes to public health and safety.

You do know that the vaccine court is a special court just for vaccine injury cases, right? Anyone claiming a vaccine injury MUST first file a claim with the vaccine court. They are not allowed to sue in civil court until they have gone through the vaccine court and receive an unfavorable decision. Only then can they file a case in civil court, but that rarely happens because the expense and length of time that it takes to go through the vaccine court effectively discourages plaintiffs or makes it impossible because they have no more resources, unlike the DOJ.

HRSA and the DOJ are both involved in the vaccine court, and HRSA IS the defendant in these cases. HRSA and the DOJ DO use expert witnesses. I never said that the judge did or that it was his job to do "outside" consulting.

The number stated as doses of vaccines distributed also doesn't take into consideration that it includes ALL vaccine doses, not just those that are compensable by the vaccine court. But that aside, I get that you and others consider the number of children injured by vaccines to be few enough to be insignificant. I challenge you to consider honestly if you would still feel that way if YOUR child were to be seriously injured or die due to a vaccine. You don't have to answer that here, but I would like to know how many of other parents' children need to have a serious brain injury or die before it becomes significant to you. Seriously, where do you draw the line?

I fully understand what it is that you are trying to state. I don't agree.

You must be referring to the pre-nursing student, not the op. The op is not anti-vax.

I didn't notice anybody "hounding" the pre-nursing student. The thing is, though, that if one comes in here and makes claims, it's only reasonable to expect that individual to offer sound evidence for her/his position. This is required for the maintenance of scientific integrity.

Yes, I meant the pre-nursing student when I said the OP.

You may not have noticed, but at least one other person posting mentioned something to the same effect, so it isn't just me.

Specializes in School Nursing, Public Health Nurse.
I challenge you to consider honestly if you would still feel that way if YOUR child were to be seriously injured or die due to a vaccine. You don't have to answer that here, but I would like to know how many of other parents' children need to have a serious brain injury or die before it becomes significant to you. Seriously, where do you draw the line?

I fully understand what it is that you are trying to state. I don't agree.

I have thought about that. I don't have children now but I want to in the future. To be honest, I'm more concerned with the mental illnesses in my family and how that will affect the genes of my offspring vs. the possible severe reaction to a vaccine. If one or more of my future children has a severe reaction possibly caused by a vaccine I will be devastated, yes, but I know I took that risk for my child. I know deep down in my heart vaccines are one of the best things I can do for the health of my child. If my child is injured or dies after receiving a vaccine I wouldn't blame myself anymore than I would if I put my child in the car and there was a fatal crash. I can have a car crash anytime and likely anyone can have any type of a reaction to any vaccine. We can't predict the future. But people still drive. And people still get vaccines.

Interesting because I know a ton of people in the medical field that vaccinate their children. Where do you get that so many people with medical backgrounds do not vaccinate their kids? I personally do not know a single nurse, doctor, PA, etc. that is against vaccines. Even my neighbor who is Nurse and was afflicted by Guillain-Barré after vaccines in the military. All her children are vaccinated with all recommended and required vaccinations.

No one says you cannot question vaccines or other medications, but who are your "multiple sources" that you get your opinion from? None of it is evidenced-based. And evidence-based practice is the core of our profession. You can't throw that out the window for baseless conspiracy theories and conjecture.

I'll never understand why some people feel it necessary to state the extreme when trying to make a point.

First, I didn't say that there aren't doctors who vaccinate. I didn't even come close to saying that there aren't MANY doctors who vaccinate. There are probably even more doctors who vaccinate than those who don't, but just because you don't personally know any doctors who don't vaccinate doesn't mean they don't exist. Unless you mistakenly believe that every single doctor in the world vaccinates their children, common sense alone should be enough to tell you that SOME doctors don't vaccinate!

Second, I just told you about six people in my family who are either doctors or nurses who don't vaccinate. In fact, my entire family doesn't vaccinate; those are just the ones in the medical field. I also have personal knowledge of three doctors who I work with in the ER who don't vaccinate because they told me so. I have a list of pediatricians who don't vaccinate in my state alone, and have visited one personally. I searched for those because my granddaughter's mother agreed to hear the opinion of a pediatrician who doesn't vaccinate either her patients or her own children. So unless you are calling me a liar, they do exist and are out there if you CHOOSE to seek them out!

As for sources for opinions, are you saying that medical people don't count as evidence? If that's the case, then you have to discount all of your so-called evidence.

I have thought about that. I don't have children now but I want to in the future. To be honest, I'm more concerned with the mental illnesses in my family and how that will affect the genes of my offspring vs. the possible severe reaction to a vaccine. If one or more of my future children has a severe reaction possibly caused by a vaccine I will be devastated, yes, but I know I took that risk for my child. I know deep down in my heart vaccines are one of the best things I can do for the health of my child. If my child is injured or dies after receiving a vaccine I wouldn't blame myself anymore than I would if I put my child in the car and there was a fatal crash. I can have a car crash anytime and likely anyone can have any type of a reaction to any vaccine. We can't predict the future. But people still drive. And people still get vaccines.

That's fair. I don't think you can truly know how you will feel unless it happens, but at least you have thought about it. I don't think anyone should blame themselves for a vaccine injury when you are making the best decision you can with the information available.

But you didn't answer how many injured or dead children is an unacceptable number.

Specializes in School Nursing, Public Health Nurse.
But you didn't answer how many injured or dead children is an unacceptable number.

Really? You expect me to answer that? None is an acceptable number but it isn't realistic. There are statistical limits out there that stop medication and vaccines from being pushed out to the public during clinical trials or medication recalls after the stuff is already out there. There are no 100% safe vaccine or medication. Heck even birth control isn't 100%. How many injured or dead adults is unacceptable for women who take birth control and die by blood clots before we ban hormonal birth control? If hundreds of children were dying or having severe reactions from vaccinations every day then yes we need to take action. But if you want me to say that less than 1% of children dying from vaccines is okay so that a million more may live then fine yes. A few children dying from a vaccine to prevent more from dying or being affected by measles or polio is an effective treatment. If it we didn't accept that a small amount of people taking a foreign substance could have any type of reaction we wouldn't have any medication approved by the FDA.

Really? You expect me to answer that? None is an acceptable number but it isn't realistic. There are statistical limits out there that stop medication and vaccines from being pushed out to the public during clinical trials or medication recalls after the stuff is already out there. There are no 100% safe vaccine or medication. Heck even birth control isn't 100%. How many injured or dead adults is unacceptable for women who take birth control and die by blood clots before we ban hormonal birth control? If hundreds of children were dying or having severe reactions from vaccinations every day then yes we need to take action. But if you want me to say that less than 1% of children dying from vaccines is okay so that a million more may live then fine yes. A few children dying from a vaccine to prevent more from dying or being affected by measles or polio is an effective treatment. If it we didn't accept that a small amount of people taking a foreign substance could have any type of reaction we wouldn't have any medication approved by the FDA.

If you could have a crystal ball and know for certain which children would die from vaccines, would you be willing for it to be your child if that's what your crystal ball showed? Of course, there is no such thing, so then it becomes acceptable for everyone else to roll the dice and hope it's their child, not yours.