MD's professional handwriting skills

[hppynurse2]

Have you ever wondered if physicians took a special course in handwriting skills???? I have. Many times I would get orders to copy onto the mars that were grossly illegible. My co-workers and I would pass the orders around trying to figure them out. Sometimes just tilting the paper to the left would reveal the answers. Sometimes turning it completely upside down would make the whole sentence clear. Am I the only nurse with this problem? or are there others? It is fun at times to make your own coclusions:trout:

[PANurseRN1]

I agree, Roy. Boys aren't expected to have good writing skills, therefore, they're given a pass when their writing is illegibile. If writing skills were gender based, how could you explain the atrocious handwriting of one of my female co-workers and the very neat writing of one of our male surgeons?

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

sorry steph - but i honestly think such "studies" are hogwash.

they do little but perpetuate gender stereotypes. i could extrapolate your "study results" and claim that "since boys have better math skills, girls have no business being pilots."

in my line of thinking they are no better than those who claim "female orientals are the worst drivers".... based on observing the driving habits of all female oriental drivers in chicago.

handwriting is not "gender specific". imo - handwriting is "upbringing", "schooling" and "personal investment" specific.

being a boy doesn't predispose you to bad handwriting in as much as being a girl predisposes you with great reading skills. there are a thousand other things that affect these behaviors - which are far more responsible for the eventual outcome than something like gender, race, etc.

not everything is genetic or gender linked. it isn't all nature.

cheers,

i'm mostly having fun with you . . . . . :monkeydance:

all three of my older kids went to private school plus i homeschooled them prior and all learned handwriting. my #2 son just struggled with it - it was a year of what he would say he remembers as torture. never measuring up. so, we bypassed the handwriting "torture" and put him on the computer. not that he didn't have to write things - but the computer sure took the edge off and he could relax and actually enjoy school again.

i don't like generalizations . . . as you should know.

what i do believe in are gender differences. and i know from teaching my own kids and doing research that some kids take longer than others to grasp a concept or skill. be it sports or academics.

one of the first books i read about teaching was that it was better for boys to start school later . . . that if they start kindergarten at 6 or 7 instead of 4 or 5, they might not start out at the grade level of other kids their age but they quickly catch up because they are ready, emotionally and intellectually for learning.

as the seattle study conducted by berninger et al. showed, legible handwriting affects students' work in other areas of the curriculum, such as composition. this is true of both young children and older students. for example, the authors report that boys' vulnerability to handwriting problems explains a gap between boys' and girls' writing ability in junior high:

the initial superiority of junior high girls in compositional quality disappeared when effects due to handwriting were partialed out (berninger et al., 1997). thus early intervention directed to both handwriting and compositional fluency may maximize compositional quality in the later grades, especially for boys.

http://www.zaner-bloser.com/html/hwsupport4.html

this article talks about how important handwriting skills.

steph

steph

[jamato8]

If I can't read it I call them. I had one that I asked a couple of other nurses if they could read the order and then my clerk, who can read anything and nobody could read it. I called the doctor who got mad. I told him no one could read his order. I think it embarrassed him because he wrote clearer from then on.

[Mimi2RN, ASN, RN]

It's wonderful when the docs finally learn to chart in Elmer Orders. The other option we have is standardized Admit orders, as they can go down and check off what they want, and we don't have to decipher anything.

[randybayrn]

Our hospital is now all paperless and Docs must type in their own orders. Yeah!!

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

It's wonderful when the docs finally learn to chart in Elmer Orders. The other option we have is standardized Admit orders, as they can go down and check off what they want, and we don't have to decipher anything.

Hi Mimi! We have standard orders for some things like pneumonia. But most of our orders are handwritten. One doc has beautiful writing - he always puts "Thank You" at the end of his orders. 3 of the docs are terrible but it is like I've learned another language - I can decipher it.

steph

[jill48, ASN, RN]

:yelclap:

Our hospital is now all paperless and Docs must type in their own orders. Yeah!!

[DutchgirlRN, ASN, RN]

Nurses do it too in their notes. I seriously think it may be an unconscious move to avoid responsibility for what is written.

You're joking right?

In effect, the nurse or unit secretary composes the orders to be things they consider to be within the range of normal, because they are in fact illegible.

Not where I worked. If we didn't know for 100% sure what it said we called the doctor and we made plenty of calls to doctors for illegible orders. I heard for years and years that the doctors were going to be made to do orders on the computers. Great idea, never happened. I am now retired from the hospital. Happy in Home Health!

[Roy Fokker, BSN, RN]

What I do believe in are gender differences. And I know from teaching my own kids and doing research that some kids take longer than others to grasp a concept or skill. Be it sports or academics.

Hi Steph,

If you conducted that study in India, China and South Africa, I'd guarantee you, you'd get different results each time.

Again - being a boy or a girl doesn't pre-dispose you to better handwriting skills, or math skills, or comprehension skills, or economics. Regular, diligent practice; does. There are studies that say men are better adapted at making spatial judgements - I could infer from this that women make worse drivers, right?

Saying "boys have a harder time with handwriting" is no different a generalization than saying "girls are smarter than boys". It is gender stereotyping.

I guess I do disagree with you on the subject.

cheers,

[TrudyRN]

Our hospital has a policy that RNs don't have to pick up orders they can't read. We are allowed to write on the order, "needs clarification..MD notified" Dated and timed of course. Needles to say, we have very little problems with MDs illegible handwriting. Most of the time they show it to you after it is written to make sure that you understand it.

This is what should happen. Doctor makes sure the nurse can read the orders.

The approach you describe of notifying the doctor could be problematic if a patient suffers harm because of a delay in getting clarification.

I do, BTW, applaud your approach of putting the onus back on the doctor, where it belongs. However, a jury might think the nurse should not be totally absolved of responsibility by simply having notified the doctor that clarification is needed.

How do you do this notification? Do you leave a message with the doctor's secretary or nurse? Is it on a recording machine or voice mail or email or fax or have you actually spoken with a live person, gotten that person's name and title, and spelled out the exact nature of the problem?

Does the nurse wait indefinitely for the clarification?

Or is there a time limit, maybe 1 hour, after which the nurse must contact the doctor again and try again to get the clarification?

I'd want to document that the N. Sup was also notified that you were waiting for Dr. Bonehead to call with clarification on Mrs. Smith's orders. After a pretty short wait, I'd want to get the Sup involved in trying to get that clarification. :balloons: :monkeydance:

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

Hi Steph,

If you conducted that study in India, China and South Africa, I'd guarantee you, you'd get different results each time.

Again - being a boy or a girl doesn't pre-dispose you to better handwriting skills, or math skills, or comprehension skills, or economics. Regular, diligent practice; does. There are studies that say men are better adapted at making spatial judgements - I could infer from this that women make worse drivers, right?

Saying "boys have a harder time with handwriting" is no different a generalization than saying "girls are smarter than boys". It is gender stereotyping.

I guess I do disagree with you on the subject.

cheers,

Girls are smarter than boys . . . . .

Seriously Roy, I'm not so far into generalizing to say what you think I'm saying.

steph:icon_hug: