MD can't walk across the room to get a chart

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Feb 21, 2006

As long as nurses put up with the abuse/rudness, they will put up with abuse/rudness.
It's the image of nursing that must change. Painful to read, but the truth.
Educate yourself!!

No one here is saying to put up with it! :uhoh3: Far from it, just different ways to deal with people like that.

And i DO educate myself, thank you. :stone

SmilingBluEyes · Feb 21, 2006

Excuse me Sue, but I don't see alot of "putting up with" anything in this thread here. Let's face it, most hospital administrators could not give a darn about the plight of nurses and the abuse heaped on us---and those same managers and administrators are not gonna back us up when we ask for help here. So, some of us take up for ourselves in a way that may work. Educating ourselves is very important, but means less than a hill of beans when we cannot get support from the top, when we do draw the boundary lines for abusive and/or rude physicians or patients and family members.

I have read all those books and more about nursing, its history and current issues. Means nothing t'all to the abusive physician I had to deal with last week.

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Feb 21, 2006

This is how ignorant I was as a junior nursing student. Doctor Big Deal walked into the station where I was occupying the only chair. She sat down on the counter and stared at me. I looked back at my chart. A moment later I heard her sigh, but right then I happened to notice something of interest in the chart. I looked back at the doctor, read her name tag, and then said, "Dr. Big Beal, can I ask you a question about this child?" I then asked her about whether the child had been evaluated for the possibility of William's Syndrome , and she asked, "Which chart do you have?" We went on to discuss the child for a few minutes, and only stopped when my clinical instructor showed up and beckoned me to follow her. I relinquished my seat, and stood up and followed my instructor. Next, I got a nice talking to about how to treat doctors, when to rise from your seat, etc., etc. I ended up getting asked by that MD to go on rounds with her a few times after that. And all that b/c I was just too naively ignorant to be aware of the social dynamics going on at our first meeting.

Unless God Himself is my clinical instructor, NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, will make me get up just because someone has MD behind their name.

I wouldn't have argued with the instructor - I know when to pick my battles! - but I know enough to NOT stand up JUST BECAUSE someone is a doctor.

not now, RN · Feb 21, 2006

If I know a doctor is in the facility (LTC) I have no problem taking a minute to pull all his/her charts and line them up on the counter for them. Then I go back to my med pass (they always show up during my med pass). If I want to ask them a question I do. If they want to ask me a question all they need to do is look for the med cart and ask.

Only one MD will request that you walk with him as he visits his residents but he's so nice and very open to what you have to say that I don't mind.

I'll give up the seat when they need it and I'm sitting around, eating or on the phone. I hate writing in or reading a chart when I'm standing so I figure that everyone else does also. But I do that for everyone. LVN's (where I work) are known to kick CNA's out of the chairs at the nurses station. I'm the only one who let them stay and sit on the counter (usually late at night when everyone is asleep) or on a stool.

JeanettePNP, MSN, RN, NP · Feb 21, 2006

Bottom line is that patients don't benefit from doctors and nurses having little turf battles all the time. Lines have to be clearly delineated as to what is professional expectation of both doctors and nurses, what's part of the job description and what isn't.

SueBee RN-BSN · Feb 21, 2006

I don't care what the managers, or admin has to say about nurses standing up for themselves. Abuse, and rudeness must be dealt with directly, and I mean directly. Don't act busy, and go away for long time to avoid a rude request. Don't say something to correct the doctor, and then walk away. This is passive-aggressive behavior. Stand up for yourself, and look them in the eye. All everyone has on nurses is fear. Fear of being fired, or talked to, or written up. So what, are all of you not worth being treated with respect? Where is it written in stone that nurses have to put up this crap? I myself correct this stuff on the first try, and trust me I don't put up with abuse, and I'm not mean about it either.

I have lost a battle against abuse. At one hospital I worked at for 4 days, some of the MD's were violent. I left. I could have been hurt, or I could have found myself in jail. This is when a nurse must protect his/herself.

Don't wait around for management/admin to support you. Don't wait for someone to tell it's ok to stand up for yourself, that day will never come.

The doctor may bring patients to the hospital, but without the nurses the patients can not stay.

It makes me sick how nurses go on strike over pay & benefits, and continue to put up with degrading treatment. Go on strike over workplace abuse, and trust me the problem will be on it way to being solved. Workplace abuse is against the law. The last thing a PR department/MD's want is for this cat to come out of the bag.

If you have not read "Nursing Against the Odds" please do !!!! I'm not selling the book, it's just too good for any nurse to pass up.

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Feb 21, 2006

If you have not read "Nursing Against the Odds" please do !!!! I'm not selling the book, it's just too good for any nurse to pass up.

I've read it, and while i was in the beginnings of it, i thought it was great. By the time i finished it, and thought more about it, i realized the book left out a LOT of people, and i was not nearly as enthused about it as a result.

NYNewGrad · Feb 21, 2006

What I have found on my unit with docs and nurses is simple - you get what you give. If the particular doc in question respects us, works with us and is responsive to our questions/concerns, then we will go out of our way to help them. On the other hand, any negative behavior, lazziness, not returning pages, etc. will get tit for tat. This applies from attendings to residents to med students.

We had a really really nice 3rd year who was great with us. One day I saw him in the clean utility room looking for a toothbrush. When I asked him what he needed one for, he said - "oh, one of the patients asked if i could do mouth care." Because this doc had no airs about him and was ready to do it without thinking twice, I just told him to go do his things and I'll do it for him. He deserves that.

On the other hand, last week I had a surgical resident just about harassing me and calling me every 20 minutes to see where I was holding with transfusing one of his very stable pts with 5 units FFP pre-op. When the transfusion was done and the pt was finally ready to down to OR, doc calls me and tells me he needs PT and INR drawn stat. (Mind you the pt was on the transport stretcher already ready to go). He asked me can you quickly do it for me? I very politely said, "No, I cant, but you sure can." When he realized he'd have to pull his lazy self up from the OR he quickly regretted the way he treated me the whole day... This is the same doc whom I earlier in the day advised - if you want the transfusion to take quicker, you might want to call the blood bank yourself and bring up the bags of plasma here yourself. Yah, he actually did that...

The first years who come in with attitude are the worst... luckily we have very few of them...

SueBee RN-BSN · Feb 21, 2006

Bottom line is that patients don't benefit from doctors and nurses having little turf battles all the time. Lines have to be clearly delineated as to what is professional expectation of both doctors and nurses, what's part of the job description and what isn't.

This is very true. While the doctors are not taking a leadership role, the nurses must. This has to be done to protect our patients.

I don't view negetive interaction between doctors and nurses as turf wars, but as abuse, plain and simple, depending on the interaction. If a nurse goes to medical school he/she will learn a lot of new things, doctors know more than nurses do. If a nurse wants level turf it will be done in the classroom. Nurses are not fighting for turf, but respect.

That being said, there are things nurses know that doctors don't. All of this must be applied to the team approach for the good of patients.

SueBee RN-BSN · Feb 21, 2006

I've read it, and while i was in the beginnings of it, i thought it was great. By the time i finished it, and thought more about it, i realized the book left out a LOT of people, and i was not nearly as enthused about it as a result.

Who was left out?

tinderbox · Feb 21, 2006

It was my first day, first hour at a new hospital. This MD comes in to start her rounds, and she asked for this pt's chart. A case manager had it literally 10 steps away from the MD. She turned to the 3 nurses standing there taking care of nsg duties (me being one) and said, "Go get it". Me being the new one on the block, got the privilage of going to "fetch" the chart. Would the administration stand behind you if the MD made a big stink about refusing to retrive the chart, and what would/have you do/done about servant request?

Sheesh. How arrogant of her! I seriously would've just said pleasantly, "Oh it's right there" pointing towards the chart and then gone on with whatever I was doing. We're all professionals, doing important jobs for the patient. I am a new grad nurse since this past summer, and I absolutely refuse to treat doctors like the kings and queens of the hospital. Those roles are reserved for the patients, if anyone. :rolleyes:

tollern · Feb 22, 2006

I think it is very interesting the the doc in the OP was female. I have seen behavior like this far more often from female MD's than males. Seems almost like they have something to prove to female nurses....on the flip side, they are never rude to male nurses. Hmmmmm:angryfire :angryfire