Mandatory overtime?

misswhitney · Nov 11, 2011

My facility has to give us at least a 7 day heads up about mandatory overtime. I think its mainly because we are a huge hospital with the capabilities to float staff to make up for those missing. I like the extra money but when I have to work 4 days a week, it can take a toll.

kat,rn · Nov 11, 2011

we have had to do 24 hrs of call per 4 week schedule for about a year now. and we can almost bet we will be called in b/c we have been so short. It has nearly killed my unit and alot of the "good" and experienced nurses have left and a bunch have gone part time. They don't want to do alot of new hires b/c they are afraid the census will drop. Pay is very good but it is not worth losing time with family.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Nov 11, 2011

The laws concerning mandatory OT vary facility to facility, union to union contract state to state.

EDnursetobe · Nov 11, 2011

I'm not sure how overtime can be made mandatory from a legal standpoint, but I don't know. I hadn't heard of this.

if they called me last minute, I probably wouldn't pick up the phone.

how do you make plans? what if you were out at dinner and had a beer and then they called you in? are you supposed to just go in anyway?

kat,rn · Nov 11, 2011

at my job when they post the schedule they will have the needs marked with stars for how many people can sign up on certain days. they give you so many days to sign up for the alloted amount of hours. we must answer if they call us on the on call time we signed up for. we get paid a small amount while on call wether we are called in or not then if we are called in we get time and a half.

Jenni811, RN · Nov 11, 2011

Mandatory to come in if they call you??

I'd say "F off" if they mandated that.

Wise Woman RN · Nov 11, 2011

No mandatory overtime, which is a good thing. Not having enough staff is a bad thing. Not attempting to get help at all is a really bad thing. Not aknowledging that acuity needs are increased, and saying, "Oh, well, deal with it," is a really bad thing. Using guilt to bring in staff who are already cooked beyond done is cruel and nasty. Making sure that there is adequate staff for every shift is a wonderful thing, because it is so beautiful and rare, like flawless diamonds.

nurseprnRN, BSN, RN · Nov 11, 2011

if you're not unionized and this continues, call your state dept of wages and employment. there have been court cases where the mandates and threats of "we'll charge you with patient abandonment!!!" have been scotched because the longstanding pattern of mandates indicated there was no serious attempt to hire staff. a pattern of inadequate staffing is a management problem, not an emergency.

Wise Woman RN · Nov 12, 2011

Management makes the decisions about what is an adequate staff, not the people who are actually working on the floor. They are the ones who determine if the nurses can, in fact, handle all that needs to be done, acuity notwithstanding. If a request for more help is made, which is more frequent than not, the response is, "we don't have anyone." I think that this is one big reason why people don't pick up extra shifts; they know that they will be entering into one of the seven levels of Hades. And we all need our jobs. I can understand, though, why they only work their schedule, and nothing else. They are all TIRED.

ajt575s · Nov 12, 2011

I think I should have been more specific. I mean mandatory overtime (which we call "being mandated") in that you are already there, getting ready to finish your shift and leave, then you get a call from the supervisor stating that you are "mandated" and are forced pretty much to stay another 4 hours, if you worked a 12. If you have to come in and work again that night/morning, it's too bad for you, because they don't seem to care.

If they were calling me at home and I wasn't actually at work, I could just avoid the call. This is happening more and more frequently, and you can see why it destroys employee morale. It's very difficult for nurses with children especially, because they aren't given enough notice to make arrangements to pick up their kids or anything.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Nov 12, 2011

i'm not sure how overtime can be made mandatory from a legal standpoint, but i don't know. i hadn't heard of this.
if they called me last minute, i probably wouldn't pick up the phone.
how do you make plans? what if you were out at dinner and had a beer and then they called you in? are you supposed to just go in anyway?

about being called in....if you are placed on call you have a contract;r agreement to return to the facility as you are being paid to be at the hospitals beck and call.

you need to do a little research. if you are not relieved by an other professional and can leave that patient safe you may not leave....if you do leave it can be considered negligent and abandonment

mandatory overtime

a statement from the american association of critical-care nurses (aacn)

background

mandatory overtime is identified as a workplace issue and a patient safety issue. mandatory overtime is the practice of hospitals and health care institutions to maintain adequate numbers of staff nurses through forced overtime, usually with a total of twelve to sixteen hours worked, with as little as one hour's notice. with mandatory overtime nurses are unable to refuse the required extra hours due to 1) fatigue, or 2) feeling that she/he would be unable to deliver adequate, safe patient care. this does not include overtime mandated in an unforeseen emergency, such as a mass casualty situation, or a sudden snowstorm. "on call" time is not included in this definition, unless the nurse's on call time is immediately before or after a scheduled shift, and it would force him or her to work a double shift.

http://www.aacn.org:88/wd/practice/content/publicpolicy/mandatoryovertime.pcms?menu=practice

http://www.labor.ny.gov/workerprotection/laborstandards/workers_rights/mandatory_ot_home.shtm

many states are developing laws to address mandatory ot for medical workers

http://www.lni.wa.gov/workplacerights/files/policies/esa11.pdf

pennsylvania bans mandatory overtime for nurses and health care employees

pennsylvania nurses and health care employees achieved a major victory with the passage of house bill 834, the "prohibition of excessive overtime in health care act." this new legislation bans mandatory overtime for pennsylvania nurses and other direct-care providers. governor rendell signed the bill on october 9, calling the measure "long overdue."

the law prevents health care facilities from using mandatory overtime to manage chronic understaffing. it allows them to use mandatory overtime in some situations, however, including natural disasters or in the cases of unforeseeable absences.

the ban will go into effect in july 2009. the legislation allows the department of labor and industry to assess fines of $100 to $1,000 for each violation of the overtime ban

http://www.psea.org/general.aspx?id=2914

abandonment

the board receives many telephone calls from individual nurses and as well as institutions requesting clarification of the issue, abandonment. many times these calls are followed with written complaints against an individual nurse alleging that abandonment of patient(s) has occurred. in an effort to clarify this issue and to address a recommendation from the sunset review examiners, the term abandonment has been defined. in addition, the essential variables that the board of nursing examines during an investigation of a complaint of abandonment has also been included. because of the uniqueness of each nursing situation, the following is a general framework the board of nursing utilizes when investigating the allegation of abandonment.

abandonment: occurs when a licensed nurse terminates the nurse-patient relationship without reasonable notification to the nursing supervisor for the continuation of the patients care.

the nurse-patient relationship begins when responsibility for nursing care of a patient is accepted by the nurse. nursing management is accountable for assessing the capabilities of personnel and delegating responsibility or assigning nursing care functions to personnel qualified to assume such responsibility or to perform such functions.

the term abandonment - what it is not:

the issue of abandonment, what exactly the term means, and what represents abandonment becomes cloudy when issues of staffing and reassignment of staff are involved. the issue is further complicated when the exchange between the supervisor and the licensee include implied or overt threats such as, "we will charge you with abandonment if you don't do this.@ this example illustrates the nursing supervisor's lack of understanding and knowledge of their own accountability as a licensed nurse whose practice is also governed by the nurse practice act and his/her responsibility as a agent of the employing facility.

http://www.state.mn.us/mn/externaldocs/nursing/patient_abandonment_091704013646_abandonment%20faq2.pdf

nurse's duty to a patient

all nurses, regardless of practice setting or position title/role, are required to adhere to the npa and board rules. the "core" rules relating to nursing practice, however, are rules 217.11, standards of nursing practice, and 217.12, unprofessional conduct. the standard upon which other standards are based is 217.11(1)(b) "...promote a safe environment for clients and others." this standard supersedes any physician's order or facility's policy, and has previously been upheld in a landmark case, lunsford v. board of nurse examiners, 648 s.w. 2d 391 (tex. app. -- austin 1983). the concept of the nurse's duty to promote client safety also serves as the basis for behavior that could be considered unprofessional conduct by a nurse.

patients under the care of a nurse are vulnerable by virtue of illness, injury, and/or the dependent nature and unequal power base of the nurse-patient relationship. persons who are especially vulnerable include the elderly, children, the mentally ill, sedated and anesthetized patients, those whose mental or cognitive ability is compromised, and patients who are physically disabled, immobilized, restrained, or secluded. it is this dual-vulnerability (patient status and nurse's power base) that creates the nurse's duty to protect the client. the distinction between a nurse leaving employment versus a nurse violating a duty to a patient through leaving an assignment is often confused. the first is an employment issue, the other is potentially a licensure issue.

http://www.bon.texas.gov/practice/position.html#15.6