Mandatory Flu shots

[CathyLew]

sooooo...what are your thoughts of mandatory Flu shots for health care workers? we got the ultimatum....get the shot or get the ax. So I got my first ever flu shot yesterday. just sitting arround waiting to get sick now!!!!!

[rnmi2004]

I made the choice to become a nurse.

My patients have the right to competent, safe care when they are in the hospital.

Studies have shown that immunized health care staff save lives.

I will place my patients' rights to have a immunized care provider above my "right" to refuse to be immunized with a dead virus that can not cause me to develop the flu to protect myself (and my patients) against a deadly illness.

Honestly, the misinformation being spouted in some of the posts I've read here are just astonishing.

[damegarbo]

You cannot possibly convince me that mandating a flu shot is warranted. I am to be afforded the same rights at refusal of the vaccine as are my patients. Do we screen the visitors in the patients' rooms and the general public and demand they wear masks, if they are not vaccinated? Where does it stop? There is NO certainty that you will not get the flu by taking the vaccines. You are still capable of contracting the flu when vaccinated. So, the vaccinated are not eliminated as carriers. There are many strains. Do you agree that is a possibility? If you do then ALL employees should wear masks, even the vaccinated!! So, you stated: "You will still plenty of freedom, to work for many employers, to be vaccinated or not and wear a mask or not, or work with a less vulnerable population. When you made the CHOICE to become a healthworker, this came with some responsibilities. If you have difficulty with that that choice, there are others that you can make." Don't tell me about responsibilities as a healthcare worker. I have been a front line RN for 26 years and having to be forced out of a job I love, with a patient population I care dearly for, is not a fair option. I will not readily go along with this. No, that is not a choice but a choice imposed on me. That IS discrimination. When I am made to wear a mask to be singled out as some sort of contaminated and infected human being, THAT IS DISCRIMINATION. What message does that send to my patients? That I am a cesspool of some sort because I am not vaccinated? My understanding in choosing vaccination is to assist your immune system in helping prevent contracting the flu virus. If individuals feel they need that extra assistance, I have no qualms with that. It is about knowing what is best for YOUR body not MINE. The vaccine is NO GUARANTEE that you will not be a carrier to any number of viruses. So, this is where the discussion is getting ridiculous. We are taking sides to the point of irrationality. I am saying NO mandates on a vaccine. ALL must employ universal precautions and if this escalates to pandemic proportions then if it means ALL employees wearing a mask, so be it. However, singling out the unvaccinated as these disease harboring, germ laden monsters, is DISCRIMINATION based on illogical science.

[Circejane]

However, singling out the unvaccinated as these disease harboring, germ laden monsters, is DISCRIMINATION based on illogical science.

How do you figure? Are patients on isolation or droplet precautions being discriminated against? Are we impugning the integrity of all patients by using universal precautions and assuming that they have something communicable? Are we insulting and degrading people when we glove before touching them?

I don't see the discrimination here. Two choices, both designed to protect the patients and the staff from infection. Vaccine or mask. You have a choice, and neither of them are dire. If the regular masks prove to be ineffective, then revisit it, but all this drama and teeth-gnashing over perceived discrimination is pretty silly.

[damegarbo]

Masks for all then, vaccinated or not. I explained my rationale for this in detail in my prior posting. Thoughts about that?

[indigo girl]

Message received.

The govt is not mandating this. If you live in New York State, or work for a facility that does mandate this, you have a problem, but we cannot help you solve this problem here. We can make suggestions, but again we can't help you with this.

No matter how many people post here that they do not want to be vaccinated or wish to wear a mask during the pandemic, it will make no difference to the outcome. You will need to talk to your workplace about this.

If you feel strong enough about it, you may have to leave your job. I am sorry but there seems to be no other recourse for you. You could try for a legal solution, but the outcome seems doubtful.

This pandemic may continue for two years or so. In the end, we will all be vaccinated one way or the other, but no testing will be done to prove it.

[bigpa]

Why was a post about an Influenza A/B vaccine moved to the H1N1 forum? They are very, very different. The vaccine is very very different. This is going to cause confusion about some unholy hospital mandating vaccinations with an experimental H1N1 vaccine.

I also work at this facility that is implementing mandatory flu shots. FYI it is a NYS mandation and the hospital is just enforcing compliance. The big issue most of the employees are having is that we are also being told that the H1N1 will be mandatory for all of us as soon as it is out. Here is where we all have the big problem!!!! WE DONT WANT TO BE NYS GUINEA PIGS FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD!!!!!! Many of us feel that if we don't oppose the regular flu shot then we will not have a leg to stand on when H1N1 vaccine get's delivered. And a big FYI for Mike and his followers, you can throw all the statistical information at me that you want to but the bottom line is that good handwashing and PPE usage is what prevents our patients from catching what we carry not getting vaccinated!!!! So stick to making a career out of going to college, keep getting your annual flu shot, and we will stick to the back breaking bedside patient care. That is the problem with our world today too many people quoting a bunch of statistical BS and staying far away from actual reality that "we the people" have seen. This to me is just another means for goverment to support the big drug companies at my expense. So kudos to all of you who have no problem taking the flu shot and feeling like you are doing wonders for society because of it. I have no intention of compliance to the H1N1 and will refuse the regular flu shot to prove my point.

[Mike Lee]

We all need flu shot because BIG PHARMA WANTS MORE AND MORE MONEY. So get you flu shot, enrich BIG PHARMA....

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

Masks for all then, vaccinated or not. I explained my rationale for this in detail in my prior posting. Thoughts about that?

I work with immunocompromised pts and vaccination is mandatory for staff. Despite that, ALL staff still wear masks in any pt care room, ALL visitors are required to wear masks in pts rooms. If the pt is making laps on our floor, they wear a surgical mask - if they leave the floor, they wear an N95 (we have several types - some more comfortable than others).

Despite my patients being severely immunosuppressed, I think we have seen maybe one case of confirmed flu in at least 3-4 years....in a room where for a rare exception, masks were not used as strictly d/t communication issues. And there have been no cases of staff with the flu.

We do screen visitors as much as possible, but of course visitors may lie (much like staffers and being "allergic" to vaccines). When we had a few new episodes of flu in summertime, everyone walking through the doors got screened.

I d/t a long term inherited medical issue, am rarely but occasionally immunosuppressed. I have been probably vaccinated against about everything there is vaccine, including the yearly flu vaccine. Interestingly, compared to my nonimmunocompromised coworkers, I am almost never sick, I don't colds and certainly don't get flu.

I will say that while the masking on my floor and screening help, another variant is that we have a better nurse to pt ratio and that handwashing and isolation precautions are much stricter. I personally believe that there virtually NO way that the average hospital, where a nurse has 6-8 patients, a tech. has 6-10 patients, that GOOD EFFECTIVE handwashing is done EVERY TIME that it should be, that pts are properly SCREENED and CORRECT precautions are put in place.

If someone actually calculated the time to wash hands and properly gown/glove for isolation for every single pt that really should be on precautions, there is no way that they could rationalize the poor ratios most nurses work with.

When working in community facilities, where there is med nurse, I would give half through the day, to find that my patient was getting oral vanco/having diarrhea and no one had questioned the why. then you can't get the chart and when you finally do, Tah Dah, they have C.Diff, you put precautions in place and the pt complains that you are violating HIPAA, by putting the sign on the door to wash hands. Or the MD didn't tell anyone because putting Ms. Gotbucks on isolation will offend her.

Sorry, but we have to get over this stigma issue to do the right thing for pts, for staff and for the health of our community. Many of us remember when MRSA was rare and we told our pts how to stop spreading it, yet many of them didn't want to be compliant. Now it is widespread. A educated man is diagnosed with MDR TB, possibly XMDR TB and yet cannot miss a wedding, hops a plane to Greece, resulting in a lot of people having to be tested. He, indulging in his "right" to indulge in life, liberty and pursuit of happiness effectively trampled all over the rights of those that shared the plane with him and resulted in them requiring medical followup.

[RNsckofit]

i also work at this facility that is implementing mandatory flu shots. fyi it is a nys mandation and the hospital is just enforcing compliance. the big issue most of the employees are having is that we are also being told that the h1n1 will be mandatory for all of us as soon as it is out. here is where we all have the big problem!!!! we dont want to be nys guinea pigs for the rest of the world!!!!!! many of us feel that if we don't oppose the regular flu shot then we will not have a leg to stand on when h1n1 vaccine get's delivered. and a big fyi for mike and his followers, you can throw all the statistical information at me that you want to but the bottom line is that good handwashing and ppe usage is what prevents our patients from catching what we carry not getting vaccinated!!!! so stick to making a career out of going to college, keep getting your annual flu shot, and we will stick to the back breaking bedside patient care. that is the problem with our world today too many people quoting a bunch of statistical bs and staying far away from actual reality that "we the people" have seen. this to me is just another means for goverment to support the big drug companies at my expense. so kudos to all of you who have no problem taking the flu shot and feeling like you are doing wonders for society because of it. i have no intention of compliance to the h1n1 and will refuse the regular flu shot to prove my point.

thank you!! you have said it very well; i am also one of those mandated for these flu shots or be fired! the erosion of my rights is not a small thing to me nor should it be for anyone. baby steps of strange things are happening such as tracker bracelets being placed on the wrists of some influenza vaccinated people in boston-the cradle of liberty!! what crap that the government policy makers and the pharmaceutical firms making this h1n1 vaccine are free from repercussions and lawsuits should the worse happen to any of us from the injections....ever heard of such a thing?

[damegarbo]

I am afraid of those looking at these mandatory vaccinations with eyes wide shut. Their arguments in favor of giving up fundamental liberties are always backed up by playing on fears. The proponents of mandated vaccines are using scare tactics about the 'unvaccinated' contaminating those on airplanes and any other public place and the 'unvaccinated' being the 'vectors' for spreading the pandemic. They don't want to hear the 'unvaccinated' voice their concerns about violations of civil liberties, basic human rights, choices. They counter that argument saying the 'unvaccinated' are threatening the freedoms of others by spreading disease. The sheep like mentality is a danger. Listen carefully.

You who espouse a mandate are in danger of losing your freedoms. It happens one step at a time. Wake up. In other countries there are many mandates that are in place that are blatantly oppressive. China has a one child policy thus abortions are necessary to conform. The religious oppression that mandates birkas and no voice for women in some Muslim countries etc... There are so many other examples. We must question to preserve our freedoms. This is not nonsense or paranoia this is the reality. What will be next? The next mandate could be the guardicel vaccine for females, it's already strongly encouraged. Maybe the pregnant who are poor or uninsured should be mandated to have abortions. Or maybe, all females who are uninsured should have mandated birth control shots. There could be arguments made for that by the sheep that might think it's a good idea. I am telling you the possibilities are endless and that is the slippery slope we have embarked on. Be careful about giving up human rights and freedoms. I love this country because we have always been FREE to question and protest and voice. We have been a free society, we need to fight to keep our freedoms. My God, if our forefathers who shed blood to establish a free country could see what is happening now...

The next thing that will happen is the 'unvaccinated' will be labeled as domestic terrorists. This is the propaganda that could await us. I am telling you people I am being serious. Wake up.

The point is that unless people really look at the reality of this situation, this is the new country, the new world that you are creating. Wake Up. I know there are nurses on this site that will burn me at the stake for being a dissident and try to convince me about the necessity of a vaccine mandate by spewing out statistics and fear. I've heard those arguments and I do not need to hear anymore. I would rather hear from the RNs that are 'awake' and 'get it' and oppose the mandate on the flu vaccine on the fundamental basis of maintaining human rights, freedoms, free thought and choices. I want to hear from the RNs that are likeminded and who see the bigger picture.

[peeksnan]

DuluthMike, in paragraph 3 of your message you state "If you don't vaccinate, that is your choice:...the problem is we are no longer given a choice...it is mandated, violating our freedom of choice. Who will pay my mortgage and support my family if I end up on a respirator? There is no recourse if we become ill, yet we are supposed to just roll over and accept this? How long will the hospital you work for hold your position if you become ill, how long will they pay you once your sick time runs out? Nobody seems to care about these issues

[peeksnan]

Thank god!!!!!!!!!!so glad to hear i am not alone in these thoughts