mandatory flu shot

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More and more hospitals are making the flu shot mandatory. Seasoned nurses are being threatened to lose their jobs if they do not take it or they are forced to wear a mask while doing patient care for the entire flu season. Is this a violation of HIPPA. Patients will know that that nurse has not had a flu shot when they see the mask. Do you think that the flu shot should be mandatory or should nurses have the right to refuse just like the patients have a right to refuse?

Just joined AN and this is the first post? Agree with dishes. Homework question.

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I believe eneryone should have the option to make their own decision

Everyone DOES have the option to make their own decision. No one is going to hold down an adult and stab them with a needle full of vaccine.

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Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
Everyone DOES have the option to make their own decision. No one is going to hold down an adult and stab them with a needle full of vaccine.

They just need to realize those decisions have consequences, both good and bad.

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Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
I believe eneryone should have the option to make their own decision

They do: Get shot, keep job. Don't get shot, employer determines said employee does not meet conditions of employment and terminates. If one is so opposed to the flu shot, one must find a facility that is congruent with their beliefs (and that goes for other beliefs as well, not just the flu shot).

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Specializes in Hospice, Palliative Care.

Mando, I used to be completely against flu shots (not vaccinations in general, just flu shots) until I I had a doh moment... as a future (my goal) nuse (I'm in a RN program now), would I want to set the best possible example for my patients? Which is better? Leading from the front line or leading from behind? Whom do you respect more? Those that recommend it, and they themselves follow the recommendation? Or those who say "do as I tell you, not as I do?"

Thank you.

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Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Kind of late in the season for this to arise isn't it?

Homework assignment?

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Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Dinah77 and turtlesrcool,

I was merely trying to give the original poster relevant information on what my hospital was doing to answer her original post. No need to be condescending in your remarks. Yes I am a nurse who supports good health, but I also believe in the premise of being allowed to CHOOSE what one does with the body.

You do get to choose what one does with your body. And the hospital gets to choose whether or not to employ someone who chooses not to get the flu shot.

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More and more hospitals are making the flu shot mandatory. Seasoned nurses are being threatened to lose their jobs if they do not take it or they are forced to wear a mask while doing patient care for the entire flu season. Is this a violation of HIPAA. Patients will know that that nurse has not had a flu shot when they see the mask. Do you think that the flu shot should be mandatory or should nurses have the right to refuse just like the patients have a right to refuse?

I always refuse the shot and have to wear a mask. I call it "the mask of shame and punishment" because that's what it feels like. Patients will ask me why I'm wearing a mask, or they ask me if I'm sick. Then I have to explain how I didn't get the flu vaccine and blah, blah, blah. In that way, yes, I feel it is a violation of HIPAA. What I do or don't do medically should not be on public display. Patient's have the right to refuse and not wear a mask.

Also, the mask isn't so much about the flu as it is used to coerce staff into getting the shot. Many people at my workplace say they don't like getting the shot and only did so because they didn't want to wear a stuffy mask all flu season. We have to wear it everywhere...even at the desk, which is crazy.

Hospitals have to reach a certain number of compliant staff in order to receive reimbursement from the government. As you can see, it's really the government then that is imposing this onto the hospital staff.

I think it's all wrong. This year many staff still got the flu even though they were vaccinated. Me? Haven't been sick in years. Also, the vaccine is not ever tested. A group of people pick several strains that they feel "might be the ones" and put it in a vaccine...no guarantee it will work anyways.

What angers me even more than all the above is that this year the vaccine didn't cover influenza A. We had a ton of cases at our hospital. Even after the news got out about it not covering the strain, no one else wore a mask. So I had to wear one because I didn't get the shot, but those who got the shot were not protected either because it didn't cover the strain, yet they still didn't have to wear a mask? At that point, and with that logic, everyone should have had to wear a mask. This just proved to me all the more that the mask is not about protection, it's about coercion and shaming people into getting the vaccine.

For those looking for support:Nurses Against Mandatory Vaccines - Home

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Specializes in Anesthesia.

Andi, I see you are on another thread giving incorrect information again.

[h=3]"What flu viruses does this season's vaccine protect against?[/h]Flu vaccines are designed to protect against the main flu viruses that research suggests will be the most common during the upcoming season. Three kinds of flu viruses commonly circulate among people today: influenza A (H1N1) viruses, influenza A (H3N2) viruses, and influenza B viruses.

All of the 2014-2015 influenza vaccine is made to protect against the following three viruses:

  • an A/California/7/2009 (H1N1)pdm09-like virus
  • an A/Texas/50/2012 (H3N2)-like virus
  • a B/Massachusetts/2/2012-like virus."

What You Should Know for the 2014-2015 Influenza Season | Seasonal Influenza (Flu) | CDC

Different Types of Flu: Influenza A, B, C and more

The flu vaccine has been tied to reimbursement, because it has been shown as way to effectively decrease hospital admissions and mortality rates.

[h=2]"Misconceptions about Flu Vaccine Effectiveness[/h][h=5]Are there really benefits to getting a flu vaccine?[/h]While how well the flu vaccine works can vary, there are a lot of reasons to get a flu vaccine each year.

  • Flu vaccination can keep you from getting sick from flu. Protecting yourself from flu also protects the people around you who are more vulnerable to serious flu illness.
  • Flu vaccination can help protect people who are at greater risk of getting seriously ill from flu, like older adults, people with chronic health conditions and young children (especially infants younger than 6 months old who are too young to get vaccinated).
  • Flu vaccination also may make your illness milder if you do get sick.
  • Flu vaccination can reduce the risk of more serious flu outcomes, like hospitalizations and deaths.
    • A recent study* showed that flu vaccine reduced children's risk of flu-related pediatric intensive care unit (PICU) admission by 74% during flu seasons from 2010-2012.
    • One study showed that flu vaccination was associated with a 71% reduction in flu-related hospitalizations among adults of all ages and a 77% reduction among adults 50 years of age and older during the 2011-2012 flu season.
    • Flu vaccination is an important preventive tool for people with chronic health conditions. Vaccination was associated with lower rates of some cardiac events among people with heart disease, especially among those who had had a cardiac event in the past year. Flu vaccination also has been shown to be associated with reduced hospitalizations among people with diabetes (79%) and chronic lung disease (52%).
    • Vaccination helps protect women during pregnancy and their babies for up to 6 months after they are born. One study showed that giving flu vaccine to pregnant women was 92% effective in preventing hospitalization of infants for flu.
    • Other studies have shown that vaccination can reduce the risk of flu-related hospitalizations in older adults. A study that looked at flu vaccine effectiveness over the course of three flu seasons estimated that flu vaccination lowered the risk of hospitalizations by 61% in people 50 years of age and older."

Misconceptions about Seasonal Flu and Flu Vaccines | Seasonal Influenza (Flu) | CDC

The influenza vaccine like all vaccines has been rigorously tested and has continuous post-marketing testing done ever year.

https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/vaccine_safety/science.htm

https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/vaccine_safety/proof.htm

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Fact Sheets - Nurses Against Mandatory Vaccines

FACT: Under new guidelines for federal reimbursement, hospital systems andhealthcare organizations must disclose employee vaccination rates, or they can loseup to 2% of federal funding. (1)

FACT: A study completed by the independent Cochrane Collaboration groupshowed that the influenza vaccine offers very little protection, and that using the vaccinein healthy persons was basically useless. (2)

FACT: The CDC lumps in deaths from the influenza with deaths frompneumonia– Actual numbers of flu related deaths hover around 2000-5000 annually.-not the 30,000 number that is often quoted in the press. (3) More people die each year from heart disease, respiratory failure, hospital error, and sepsis. (4)

FACT: It is illegal to sue a vaccine manufacturer if you have an adverse reactionto a vaccine. (5)

FACT: All flu vaccine inserts state right on the packaging that the vaccine hasnot been studied for safety in pregnant women, and that there may be less of an antibodyresponse in children and the elderly. (6)

FACT: The Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy has completed astudy showing that vaccinating healthcare workers showed little, if any, evidence ofprotection for patients– this is contrary to the false claims made by healthcareorganizations that forced vaccine policies are to protect patients. (7)

Reference:1.) Hospital Inpatient Quality Reporting Program Support Contractor. (2012). Handbook II: CMS hospital inpatient qualityreporting program. In Handbook II: CMS hospital inpatient quality reporting program (pp. 1-46). Retrieved from Page Not Found | HHS.gov.) Demecheli, V., An-Ansary, L., Jefferson, T., Ferroni, E., Rivetti, A., & Di Pietrantonj, C. (2014, March 13). Vaccinesfor preventing influenza in healthy adults. The Cochrane Collaboration. Error: DOI Not Found.) Estimating seasonal influenza-associated deaths in the United States: CDC study confirms variability of flu. (2013).Retrieved from CDC - Page Not Found.) Trends in inpatient hospital deaths: National hospital discharge survey, 2000–2010. (2013). Retrieved from NCHS - 404 Error - Resource Not Available.) National vaccine injury compensation program. (2014). Retrieved from http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html6.) Fluzone. (2014). Retrieved from http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM305089.pdf7.) Osterholm, M. T., Kelley, N. S., Manske, J., Ballering, K., Leighton, T., & Moore, K. (2012). The compelling need forgame-changing influenza vaccines: An analysis of the influenza enterprise and recommendations for the future. Retrievedfrom http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/downloads/ccivi_report.pdf

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
Fact Sheets - Nurses Against Mandatory Vaccines

FACT: Under new guidelines for federal reimbursement, hospital systems andhealthcare organizations must disclose employee vaccination rates, or they can loseup to 2% of federal funding. (1)

FACT: A study completed by the independent Cochrane Collaboration groupshowed that the influenza vaccine offers very little protection, and that using the vaccinein healthy persons was basically useless. (2)

FACT: The CDC lumps in deaths from the influenza with deaths frompneumonia– Actual numbers of flu related deaths hover around 2000-5000 annually.-not the 30,000 number that is often quoted in the press. (3) More people die each year from heart disease, respiratory failure, hospital error, and sepsis. (4)

FACT: It is illegal to sue a vaccine manufacturer if you have an adverse reactionto a vaccine. (5)

FACT: All flu vaccine inserts state right on the packaging that the vaccine hasnot been studied for safety in pregnant women, and that there may be less of an antibodyresponse in children and the elderly. (6)

FACT: The Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy has completed astudy showing that vaccinating healthcare workers showed little, if any, evidence ofprotection for patients– this is contrary to the false claims made by healthcareorganizations that forced vaccine policies are to protect patients. (7)

Reference:1.) Hospital Inpatient Quality Reporting Program Support Contractor. (2012). Handbook II: CMS hospital inpatient qualityreporting program. In Handbook II: CMS hospital inpatient quality reporting program (pp. 1-46). Retrieved from Page Not Found | HHS.gov.) Demecheli, V., An-Ansary, L., Jefferson, T., Ferroni, E., Rivetti, A., & Di Pietrantonj, C. (2014, March 13). Vaccinesfor preventing influenza in healthy adults. The Cochrane Collaboration. Error: DOI Not Found.) Estimating seasonal influenza-associated deaths in the United States: CDC study confirms variability of flu. (2013).Retrieved from CDC - Page Not Found.) Trends in inpatient hospital deaths: National hospital discharge survey, 2000–2010. (2013). Retrieved from NCHS - 404 Error - Resource Not Available.) National vaccine injury compensation program. (2014). Retrieved from http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html6.) Fluzone. (2014). Retrieved from http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM305089.pdf7.) Osterholm, M. T., Kelley, N. S., Manske, J., Ballering, K., Leighton, T., & Moore, K. (2012). The compelling need forgame-changing influenza vaccines: An analysis of the influenza enterprise and recommendations for the future. Retrievedfrom http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/downloads/ccivi_report.pdf

1. Reporting is not the same as mandating.

2. You need to learn how to evaluate scientific literature, if you are going to try to use a study to prove a point. The flu vaccine was shown to have a modest effect. The Cochrane database only considered RCTs, which considering that most of the studies showing the efficacy on flu vaccine are from retrospective studies means that the Cochrane review is looking at a very small set of studies overall. The retrospective studies on flu vaccines are very compelling to the point that most would consider unethical to do RCT on flu vaccines in order to prove what retrospectives have already compellingly shown or in other words most IRBs are not going to approve a study that means a higher likelihood of mortality for people in the control/non-vaccinated group.

3. Who cares if it is illegal or not except anti-vaxers and some law groups. It has actually shown to be easier getting reimbursement from vaccine injury compensation than it was from pharmaceutical companies. The level of evidence that has often been shown in these governmental vaccine hearings have often sided with the plaintiff with nothing more than circumstantial evidence that has been scientifically disproven. It is also important to note that vaccine manufactures can be sued for willful negligence or purposely providing false information (which is court case that is currently underway with Merck).

4. Wrong again on the pregnancy and fetal studies with flu vaccines. You should at least looked at the package insert yourself instead of relying on some hack website. http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/qa_vacpregnant.htm http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM263239.pdf

5. Wrong again..http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/publications.htm

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double post

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