Manager is colluding

JKL33 · Aug 30

Not enough information to guess what's going on or what to do about it. Sorry.

It seems like maybe it's time to look for an outside position?

klone, MSN, RN · Aug 30

She's forcing her to resign, or she's firing her? How does one force someone to resign? What if she declines to resign?

AKP25 · Aug 30

Her ICU manager gave her a final warning to transfer to a different floor, so she tried going back to MedSurg, but that Manager says she doesn't have anything available, and both managers talked to each other so she won't take her for that reason to. Her ICU manager is trying to collect reasons to put against her. My wife even tried a different hospital, but they said if her ICU Mgr is giving final warning then they can also block her from transferring. So right now it's like a lose lose for her. She's being forced to transfer, but can't transfer fast enough, and can't stay in ICU either, or it looks like she will get fired.

She spoke with HR briefly and they said she would need to escalate this. But she's not sure what to do. Fearing retaliation, or burning all possible bridges

missaretha · Aug 31

AKP25 said:

Her ICU manager gave her a final warning to transfer to a different floor, so she tried going back to MedSurg, but that Manager says she doesn't have anything available, and both managers talked to each other so she won't take her for that reason to. Her ICU manager is trying to collect reasons to put against her. My wife even tried a different hospital, but they said if her ICU Mgr is giving final warning then they can also block her from transferring. So right now it's like a lose lose for her. She's being forced to transfer, but can't transfer fast enough, and can't stay in ICU either, or it looks like she will get fired.

She spoke with HR briefly and they said she would need to escalate this. But she's not sure what to do. Fearing retaliation, or burning all possible bridges

If HR has said to escalate, then she should escalate. HR can call them all into an office and resolve it. If a manager has proof, then that manager would have to bring the proof. If there is no proof other than dislike, and your wife knows this, she should escalate. HR should point out that retaliation will not be tolerated.

Other than that, your wife can retain an attorney to construct a letter to HR that these managers are to back off. It costs money and is ridiculous to have to do it, but if your wife loves her job and just wants to do her job without all of that childish crap, she may have to.

mdsRN2005, ASN, BSN, RN · Sep 4

missaretha said:

If HR has said to escalate, then she should escalate. HR can call them all into an office and resolve it. If a manager has proof, then that manager would have to bring the proof. If there is no proof other than dislike, and your wife knows this, she should escalate. HR should point out that retaliation will not be tolerated.

Other than that, your wife can retain an attorney to construct a letter to HR that these managers are to back off. It costs money and is ridiculous to have to do it, but if your wife loves her job and just wants to do her job without all of that childish crap, she may have to.

If they're not only trying to prevent her from transferring in-house but also to other facilities (which technically wouldn't be a transfer unless they are owned by the same corporation; if not I assume they're threatening to give her bad references?) - then I don't see what she has to lose by following HR's advice to escalate. It would show her as being willing to do things she's asked and follow the chain of command. I would consider talking to an attorney as well. The biggest piece of advice I can give is to get ALL communication in writing. If she hasn't done so thus far, she'll need to submit a written request to both the manager for a summary of all the complaints against her, and to HR for a summary of their involvement and recommendations. Don't back down if they refuse. In that case, email them with a summary of how she understands the situation, followed by something along the lines of "if this is incorrect, please correct me; if I receive no reply, I will accept that as confirmation that this information is correct.” She needs to make sure these emails are sent with read receipts turned on so that she'll get a confirmation they've been read (they can technically avoid this by not opening, but I have a feeling someone this petty loves drama and will let curiosity get the better of them). More importantly, she needs to be aware that if she is sending these emails from her work account, she'll no longer have access when her employment ends. (She can do so from a personal account but only if no patient information is included). I've often found that people like this prey on those they think won't fight back; often finding out that is not the case will make them simmer down. I'd avoid threatening a lawsuit or even mentioning a lawyer, as they may be required by policy to stop communicating without the lawyer once she does so. However, if she asks very specific questions in writing, they'll get the idea. Finally I would not be too intimidated by their threats to block her from other jobs at other facilities. As I said earlier, they can't actually do so unless the facilities are part of the same group. Yes they can give her a bad reference, but it's not always a requirement to list a nursing manager. Even if it requires a "supervisor" reference, she could use a charge nurse.

mmc51264, BSN, MSN, RN · Sep 4

Equal Employment Office (EEO) department. Just went through something similar, Found another job before I could be pushed out.

C.Love, MSN, NP · Sep 5

AKP25 said:

Her ICU manager gave her a final warning to transfer to a different floor, so she tried going back to MedSurg, but that Manager says she doesn't have anything available, and both managers talked to each other so she won't take her for that reason to. Her ICU manager is trying to collect reasons to put against her. My wife even tried a different hospital, but they said if her ICU Mgr is giving final warning then they can also block her from transferring. So right now it's like a lose lose for her. She's being forced to transfer, but can't transfer fast enough, and can't stay in ICU either, or it looks like she will get fired.

She spoke with HR briefly and they said she would need to escalate this. But she's not sure what to do. Fearing retaliation, or burning all possible bridges

Are they accusing her of doing something wrong, and have they given her counseling to help improvement? Why would her manager just want to get rid of her?

AKP25 · Sep 5

C.Love said:

Are they accusing her of doing something wrong, and have they given her counseling to help improvement? Why would her manager just want to get rid of her?

She hasn't done anything wrong, because nothing has been officially reported of any wrong doing. From day 1 she had a bad experience. Her preceptor was a straight bully. Degrading her, not answering questions, gossiping with other nurses about her. It wasn't until few other nurses that she got along with, told her of what was happening. She sent an email to her manager of the bullying, and nothing was done. Few SR nurses and the manager had a meeting and wife's name came up, along with the preceptor. Her orientation was during day shifts, and once done she went back to night shifts. Never having to work in the same shift with her preceptor. The director, manager, preceptor, and charge nurse are BFFs outside of work. She just finshed her 6 or 7 months, and she was brought into the directors office along with her manager. And the director was just going off on her. She's incompetent, the director is not there to be her mother to handle these quarrels, and that wife needs to transfer herself out of ICU. So she knew its done for her here. And she knew trying to transfer back to Med/Surg would also be unlikely, since the director there and her current director are also BFF. When she reached out to her MedSurg director, she said "I don't know whats going, I don't know who to trust". Means the ICU director had already contacted MedSurg, knowing that would be the first place she would go back or she just likes to talk about others business.

So while this was going on, wife was going to work for her scheduled shifts. And then director sends an email, stating this is her final warning to transfer out. She tried reaching out to other hospital branch, and they said if she received a final warning email, it's going to be hard to transfer herself. Something bout it's going to block her from transferring.

So all this nonsense is clear that a group of staff are playing politics. Abusing their power, being biased, somewhat racist, and playing favoritism. Obviously no one would want to try and stay in that toxic env. But is there anything she can do?

As of today (9/5) she has already put in her 2 weeks, and has 3 days next week for her shifts. But she's mostly concerned that this group will try to get her to slip up, potentially something that can put her license at risk. Just the other night her charge nurse assigned her 2 very critical patients that required constant attention, but kicker was that they were completely on opposite sides of the floor. So whole night she's running back and forth, did not take a lunch break, in fear they would blame her for something, constantly questioning her thru out the night if she checked this or that, notifying her of patients stats (even though she was aware and was on top of it). She stayed professional and thanked them for bringing it to her attention.

mmc51264 said:

Equal Employment Office (EEO) department. Just went through something similar, Found another job before I could be pushed out.

Did you take any action? Or report what was done to you?

AKP25 · Sep 5

mdsRN2005 said:

If they're not only trying to prevent her from transferring in-house but also to other facilities (which technically wouldn't be a transfer unless they are owned by the same corporation; if not I assume they're threatening to give her bad references?) - then I don't see what she has to lose by following HR's advice to escalate. It would show her as being willing to do things she's asked and follow the chain of command. I would consider talking to an attorney as well. The biggest piece of advice I can give is to get ALL communication in writing. If she hasn't done so thus far, she'll need to submit a written request to both the manager for a summary of all the complaints against her, and to HR for a summary of their involvement and recommendations. Don't back down if they refuse. In that case, email them with a summary of how she understands the situation, followed by something along the lines of "if this is incorrect, please correct me; if I receive no reply, I will accept that as confirmation that this information is correct.” She needs to make sure these emails are sent with read receipts turned on so that she'll get a confirmation they've been read (they can technically avoid this by not opening, but I have a feeling someone this petty loves drama and will let curiosity get the better of them). More importantly, she needs to be aware that if she is sending these emails from her work account, she'll no longer have access when her employment ends. (She can do so from a personal account but only if no patient information is included). I've often found that people like this prey on those they think won't fight back; often finding out that is not the case will make them simmer down. I'd avoid threatening a lawsuit or even mentioning a lawyer, as they may be required by policy to stop communicating without the lawyer once she does so. However, if she asks very specific questions in writing, they'll get the idea. Finally I would not be too intimidated by their threats to block her from other jobs at other facilities. As I said earlier, they can't actually do so unless the facilities are part of the same group. Yes they can give her a bad reference, but it's not always a requirement to list a nursing manager. Even if it requires a "supervisor" reference, she could use a charge nurse.

She has few days left from her 2 week notice. She's ready to move on, but currently concerned about her license. Charge nurse and clique are not being supportive, and she just wants to complete without any slipups.

She's already interviewing with other positions at other hospitals. She has few co-workers she can use as a reference. Not so sure about the charge nurse. Can an educator be used ? And whats ironic, while all this b.s. is going on, her educator (who's unaware of the situation) was assigning wife for additional complex training. Saying she know's wife is capable of doing it.

She's received 20 Daisy awards since joining ICU in past 6months, and educator wants her to take on more duties. How is she incompetent then?

brandy1017, ASN, RN · Sep 6

AKP25 said:

She has few days left from her 2 week notice. She's ready to move on, but currently concerned about her license. Charge nurse and clique are not being supportive, and she just wants to complete without any slipups.

She's already interviewing with other positions at other hospitals. She has few co-workers she can use as a reference. Not so sure about the charge nurse. Can an educator be used ? And whats ironic, while all this b.s. is going on, her educator (who's unaware of the situation) was assigning wife for additional complex training. Saying she know's wife is capable of doing it.

She's received 20 Daisy awards since joining ICU in past 6months, and educator wants her to take on more duties. How is she incompetent then?

She can use her educator for a reference and the 20 daisy awards on her resume. If she thinks this is because of racial discrimination that is something she can fight with the EEOC. She should contact them and keep all correspondence etc as once she leaves, she will no longer have access to company documents from the computer so she needs to gather the evidence now to file a claim.

Discrimination cases are the only ones that you can fight with now, especially with at will employment. She should be able to get a settlement at least. She possibly could file for unemployment due to being forced out, harder to do, depends on the state, but have her talk to EEOC about everything!

It is disheartening what was done to her and I wouldn't want to stay even if I could. Yes, they burn people's bridges with a write up to keep them from transferring in the hospital system and it can be used to prevent raises and even as the director implied that she would be fired if she didn't leave ASAP. So, it was a constructive dismissal which is why she might be able to claim unemployment. They would no doubt challenge it, but with her documentation of the director threatening her to leave ASAP it would prove the case!

I'm sorry this happened to her. I wish her the best of luck and decent coworkers and management at her next job!

mmc51264, BSN, MSN, RN · Sep 6

AKP25 said:

Did you take any action? Or report what was done to you?

I have not, although there has been some really horrible stuff happening. A colleague was having attendance issues. They miscounted and thought they were OK with calling out. I guess they weren't. Was called in last week and fired for a call out TWO MONTHS ago!. Also, there is some restructuring going on and nurses that have been there less than a year, were "voluntold" they had to transfer to a different unit with zero choice in the decision. I have told them they should get a group together and go to EEOC.

Then, I had a workplace injury. Close to the end of my tenure. It has been a nightmare. I am SO glad I am finally done. Start my new job Monday.

Also found out some stuff that didn't get acted upon related to treatment of a person waiting for results of psychological testing for autism. Some scary people at a place that I was ridiculously loyal to for over 10 years. it's heartbreaking. I'm grown, so I can deal with a lot. I feel horrible for these new nurses who are 23-25 years old and they are being bullied by management, not older/veteran nurses. We have been trying to advocate, guide, educate them, about what they should not be putting up with. They have been threatened so much about getting fired for stupid stuff, they don't want to say anything. 😓