Male RN-assist with pelvic exams?

llg, PhD, RN · Sep 8, 2004

This type of gender typecasting for interventions is a pet peave of mine. I left a job I loved because I was told "no male will work in my L&D". I was OK to do newborn nursery, postpartum, and women's services though. I was also OK for attending high risk deliveries and C-sections as the nursery rep. The EEOC decided I was right on that one! It would have been much cheaper for the hospital to fire the NM of L&D and hire me and a new manager after they were done. After that battle I left the hospital and took up ER nursing.
bob

Many years ago, as an undergraduate, I observed a male nurse in L & D. He was terrific and very well-respected by everyone on that unit. But even before that, I felt there was something wrong with a culture that says it's OK for a woman to be examined/treated by a male doctor, for a male to be examined/treated by a female doctor or nurse ... but it's not OK for a female to be cared for by a male nurse.

As a female patient, I have always made a conscious effort to not deny myself the good care that a man may provide.

As for your previous experience of discrimination, I say, "Good for you!"

llg

nekhismom · Sep 8, 2004

When I was younger, I would object to any male seeing any private part. Now, well, it's just not that big a deal anymore.

In my hospital, we do have a male L&D nurse. But docs who are mostly MALE always ask a female to accompany them in the L&D and postpartum areas. Strange, though. IF the nurse was a male, would he need a female to accompany him???

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Sep 8, 2004

On the med-surg floor i worked on, the nurse of the male gender would ask a female CNA to be in the room when he had to check private areas on a female pt.

llg, PhD, RN · Sep 8, 2004

On the med-surg floor i worked on, the nurse of the male gender would ask a female CNA to be in the room when he had to check private areas on a female pt.

... but does a female nurse ask a male to accompany her when she is going to check the private parts of a male patient? If not, why not? It's really no different -- except for cultural expectations. Why are we so quick to "respect" that cultural expectation when we don't have the same "respect" for other cultural expectations -- such as people who don't want to be cared for by someone of another race or religion?

llg

veetach · Sep 8, 2004

Gosh - I work a level one trauma center where we have about 30% of our nurses our male and 40% of our docs are female. We don't ask for male RNs to chaperone for pelvic exams, but we expect to have all the equipment out with all the slides labelled. As to female foley's being done by male RNs - yes - we do expect that. If the female objects, then the polite thing to do is to get the equipment together and ask a female RN to do it. Is this how most places do these things - just curious?

we do the exact same thing. If a female trauma comes in and we are in a hurry, our male nurses will put the foley in. But if it is possible, the women assist with pelvics and routine foleys. I dont mind it at all. If I need a male nurse to come and assist with lifting or a combative patient at any time they drop everything and come help me. Its a two way street. Personally, I love working with our Male nurses :)

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Sep 9, 2004

... but does a female nurse ask a male to accompany her when she is going to check the private parts of a male patient?

Yes, she did, when she had a pt. who had a 5 day case of priapism, she paged the orderly to go in the room with her.

There wasn't many male private part cases on that floor, the majority of the private parts cases we'd had were the lady partsl hysterectomy post-ops, or surgery needed after a rape. (Our supposedly 'floor class' was gynecology, but we pretty much got the luck of the draw on anything that didn't require sedation or a monitor.)

mshultz · Sep 10, 2004

Male patients don't usually have a problem with a female nurse doing a foley or any other "intimate" procedure. Could this be because nursing was a former "female" profession or something else?

This may be due to the differences between men and women. When I was in the Critical Care Unit with dried blood and fecal matter on my body from a GI bleed, I would have still been grateful if the janitor had been sent in with a scrub brush and a bucket to clean me up, but it was more comfortable for me to have a member of the opposite sex providing intimate personal care.

Also, although I am unathletic and uninterested in sports, I still seem to have my share of macho hangups. To me, it would be unmanly for me to complain about modesty in front of a female health care worker, even if the receptionist wandered in while I was receiving intimate personal care.

medtwo · Sep 21, 2004

I have done many many foley insertions but only a few pelvics. Always with a female doc. Don't ever put yourself and a male physician in a compromising position because of time constraints. Find a female to assist a male.

Ross1 · Sep 21, 2004

I am a male nursing student and have contemplated this question myself. It was always my understanding that as a future male nurse I would have to provide such nursing interventions on female patients. That said, I do think it is wise to have a female colleague present for my own safety, "cya" purposes. Many years ago, I witnessed a female patient make what I believed to be a false accusation regarding a male CNA who she accused of fondling her. Unfortunately, no one else was present during personal care and it was his word against hers. There were two things that always bothered me about this case and led me to believe the CNA:

1) I knew him personally as a friend. He was openly gay (as I am) and had no interest whatsoever in seeing any female bodies, yet alone some 85 year old.

2) The client had moderate-advanced Alzheimer's disease. Her significant cognitive impairment made her a fairly unreliable reporter. She had a history of paranoid ideation. (I am not implying that an Alzhimer's patient is not capable of making an accurate claim.......just that the two issues together with her history....caused serious doubt in my mind).

Despite the above, he took the fall. While no blame was placed on him officially, he was forcibly transferred to another unit within the facility. This was a significant loss to us and to him. He had worked on our unit for many years and was quite talented and well received by patients, families, and colleagues.

Of course, maybe there is more to the story....info that I do not know. Nevertheless, this story has remained in my mind for 12 years now!

missmercy · Sep 21, 2004

Many of the MDs are male -- they are not squeamish about doing the exams etc. -- guess I am with the post that says we all do what we need to do. Sure, if the patient is uncomfortable with having a male nurse take care of the "private" procedures, then by all means get someone else if you can! If there is encough time or staff available to acommodate guys caring for guys and gals taking care of gals -- great, but if not -- just do it! If you want me to take those procedures for you -- gender specific -- then I would hope that you would do the same for me. I guess I have never had a male nurse offer to do the male caths etc for me -- and yet they have asked me to do female caths, pelvic assists etc.

Victoriakem · Sep 21, 2004

I would have to agree with the "cya" between male caregivers & female patients, although you never see this discrimination between the opposite factors. This is an unforturnate thing to deal with & it only takes a few to make it bad for the rest. I wonder how things will be between males/females later if military life will be as integrated in the future, as predicted, like firefighters who all room together, as far as I know, there are no problems with sexual innuendos.

There is still not true equality in nursing.

missnurse01, MSN, RN · Sep 21, 2004

Interesting tidbit about how the male nurse stands at the head of the bed. Our ER docs (one in particular, they are all male by the way) demand that the nurse stand just to the side of him so she can observe exactly what it is that he is doing. We also chaperone for breast exams, and sometimes even if the doc needs to touch someone's belly and they want someone there. one doc would love to have a female nurse round with him on all the pts and freq makes the request if any of us seems not busy enough. Not sure if their paranoia is d/t prev litigation or just norm cya. normally we don't have a prob doing this for them as long as the time is there! and our male nurses do all of their own foley's/pericare...sometimes with female escort, but mostly not.

Where I work, we often have all boys night at the ER. If a pelvic needs to be done it gets done. Everything is set up, I stand at the head of the exam table while the doc does his thing. At all times the pt's privacy is respected. If she requests a female then I will try to get a nurse off of the floor to assist the doc.
My mantra is "a nurse is a nurse is a nurse". Why draw lines based on gender, don't we have enough problems in the field already?
As far as foleys, I will ask the patient if she is AAO, if she objects or requests a female I look once again to the floor.
This type of gender typecasting for interventions is a pet peave of mine. I left a job I loved because I was told "no male will work in my L&D". I was OK to do newborn nursery, postpartum, and women's services though. I was also OK for attending high risk deliveries and C-sections as the nursery rep. The EEOC decided I was right on that one! It would have been much cheaper for the hospital to fire the NM of L&D and hire me and a new manager after they were done. After that battle I left the hospital and took up ER nursing.
bob