LPN'S Supervising RNs'? How would you feel?

[cowgirl4u]

I would like to start out by saying that I do respect LPN's and I am in favor of advancing in everyones careers. I am an RN on a PCU. Our hosp changed the "directors" title to Clinical Care Coordinator. Now, our floor with mostly RN's are under the direction of a LPN whom reports to the director of acute care/pcu. Let me explain further, we had seperate directors at one time, but now have one director. We are in the basement of the hospital and our director in upstairs on the acute floor. However, our newly hired clinical care coordinator is in an office with us downstairs. I am having a very difficult time in falling under this type of leadership umbrella. I also think its a dif positon for the LPN to be in too. Any thoughts?

[nurse4theplanet, RN]

I know of at least one school that is. I've never seen so many arrogant, naive, self-entitled, prissy people in life as i have coming from one particular school. I've overheard their clinical instructor say "Concentrate on paperwork. That's what BSN nurses do, non BSN nurses are the floor nurses, you're their superiors, you hold the higher degree." And the students act as such. And i can only imagine what kind of reality check these people will get when the come to the real world, thinking that their 'floor nursing' job' is nothing but paperwork.

I'm sure it's not an isolated attitude. There's probably more out there just like it.

How ugly! That makes me sad and angry.

In our school, we are taught to respect every health care team member in the spectrum from nursing aide to doctor, maintaining our professionalism. In my opinion, if you were doing your job appropriately and putting the patient first...then your mind would be occupied with more productive thoughts rather than focusing on who you feel is beneath you based on whatever bias...sad sad sad!

[olderthandirt]

All of the examples you site, in theory sound correct, BUT it is not ILLEGAL. With the legal staff at hospitals, do you think they would make that kind of mistake? Is she actually in direction of the RN's or a staff person in the position of reporting to the director? I think that after a certain number of years working the floor, all nurses know what is necessary to function effectively. I am an LPN and have been charge nurse on a floor, handed out medications, and catheterized women when no one else could. I have known good LPN's and poor ones and I have worked with the same with RN's. I just finished my Master's in Health Administration. I am sure that I will have many of both answering to me but they are answering to the administrator not an LPN.

[ChadleyNC]

As a student in an ADN program, I can not say how this would make me feel. However, I worked for a physician's office once where due to changes in administration, the floor manager who was an RN, was promoted to director of primary care division, and her position as manager of our floor was taken over by a CMA! yes, you read that right. The thing was, the floor management position was administrative in nature, and all clinical supervisory responsibilities were still maintained by the RN who was now the director of the whole division.

OUr nurses, LPN and RN alike were not very pleased at first, but once the flow of things was explained and allowed to take shape it worked ok. Only because no clinical supervision or evaluation was being done on these employees by this person.

I have a friend that is an LPN who used to manage an emergency room, but when he went to work for a disease management firm, was not included in anything designated for "nurses". the definitions in the policies there didn't even allow him to be considered as a nurse at all and subsequently, none of the RN's that worked there considered him a nurse either. That seems plain wrong to me. But, I also see the point in LPN's supervising RN's being problematic, and can understand why.

[ChadleyNC]

I know of at least one school that is. I've never seen so many arrogant, naive, self-entitled, prissy people in life as i have coming from one particular school. I've overheard their clinical instructor say "Concentrate on paperwork. That's what BSN nurses do, non BSN nurses are the floor nurses, you're their superiors, you hold the higher degree." And the students act as such. And i can only imagine what kind of reality check these people will get when the come to the real world, thinking that their 'floor nursing' job' is nothing but paperwork.

I'm sure it's not an isolated attitude. There's probably more out there just like it.

I have to say one thing about this item as well. There's a 4 year school in my town, and I am in the 2 year program myself. I already have a 4 year degree and didn't want the hassle of another one. But 99% of the folks I see in clinicals who work at the hospital, tell us that hands down, we are much more prepared to start after graduation than the BSN students that graduate at the same time. I think it's going to vary by program and instructor, what you are taught, but to me, anybody that can be taught to dislike someone simply because of their credentials is a moron.

and that's my 2 cents on that note.

[olderthandirt]

The director of the LPN class that I was in, whom had just came from teaching doctors in Africa said, "there are certain things all nurses need to know to work in a hospital, regardless of what letters are after her name, and that is what I am going to teach".

[bmh-lpn]

Where I use to work we had an LPN Supervisor/DON over all nurses including the RN's. This was done thru a very large well known Hospital chain. Some RN's complained but nothing was ever done to change it. She was an excellant nurse! Better than some of the RN's complaining. Last I heard she still is in charge. I have no problem with it as long as she/he is fully capable to doing the job right.

[LaxNP, DNP]

I have notcied that many of you are saying that LPN's area acting as ADON's. But I thing that there is a big differemce between supervising and managing. You don't need to be an RN to manage RN's, you just need to be a manager and a good leader. I don't know if taht was in another post but that is my thoughts on teh whole thing. When I worked in a LTC facility the LPN's were there all teh time and when a per diem RN come on the floor they had no idea what was going on, but legally they were the charge nurse. I never understood why the LPN's, who were there day in and day out and knew the pts, well were not in charge of the floor. To me it just seemed safer and more productive.

[dougRN2BE]

What a spirited discussion. I enjoy reading everyone's opinions and feelings on the matter.

I think it's unfortunate that there isn't a more humanist-oriented discourse taking place on the topic. We're all here for a purpose and hold different titles and have different experiences. Legalities are one thing, but respecting others for who they are and what unique characteristics they bring to the table is quite a simple task...

Cheers to all,

Doug :wink2:

[brendamyheart]

Sorry is this comes off as mean but that seems utterly ineffective and backwards. RNs are more highly trained, why would it be wise to have an LPN supervise them? Sure there are some older LPNs who may have the experiance to but it just isnt fair to the RNs who put out more time for school in my opinion.

I am an LVN and most of what I have learned has been on the job and training. I respect RN's, however I am am in a leadership position for my job description( Medicare PPS). We work as a team,RN's, LVN,s, ect!!

We are all nurses and we learn from each other were I work. I do not pretend I am no better or worse than any nurse, regardless of the tital. I learn from RN's and they learn from me. What a great combination.:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[sqky]

My feelings.... If we each put as much energy into working together as a team, as we do deciding what letters behind someones name decides who will be in a management postition... all our work would be more satisfying to us as health care providers... and the client/patient benfits.

We each have a state BON.

The facilities which put LPN's in management roles must comply by rules.

Don't you think JACHO and each states surveyors would be issuing warnings or shutting them down?

As a LPN I have worked management in LTC and also a charge nurse. The two jobs had totally different job descripstions. One was hands on nursing, the second was paper work ... and more paperwork...

[txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN]

:yeahthat:

My feelings.... If we each put as much energy into working together as a team, as we do deciding what letters behind someones name decides who will be in a management postition... all our work would be more satisfying to us as health care providers... and the client/patient benfits.

We each have a state BON.

The facilities which put LPN's in management roles must comply by rules.

Don't you think JACHO and each states surveyors would be issuing warnings or shutting down them down?

As a LPN I have worked management in LTC and also a charge nurse. The two jobs had totally different job descripstions. One was hands on nursing, the second was paper work ... and more paperwork...

[rebel1]

I am confused, I have never heard of LVN's supervisors over RN's- I am an LVN and I just would not feel comfortable telling an RN how to do their job- I have been to RN school ( did not finish one course) ( stupid on my part) but I do know what they have to go though to get that title-it is not easy.

In my current job I am the supervisor over the CMA's and I am embassed to even have that title on my badge- maybe I am old school- to me a supervisor is a RN.