LPN's just glorified nurse aids in LTC? Huh?

[onehusbandsevenkids]

I recently had a couple of nurses tell me that LPN's are just basically glorified aid in LTC settings.

I though that LPN's did mostly the same work as RN's in the LTC setting.

I know that everyone needs to be a team and pitch in and get whatever needs to be done, done. But LPN's as glorified aids? Why go to LPN school then?

[Simplepleasures]

In my almost 30 years in LTC,staff LPN's have done the very same job as staff RNs. I remember many a night being asked, by my supervisor an RN just out of school, "what do I do?!" in various emergency situations.

[Simplepleasures]

As a DNS, I like to hire good nurses. The first thing I ask is how much experience do you have?...the RN vs LPN question is about the last thing I ask. In long term care the only thing LPN's can't do is pronounce someone dead.

As far as I know its the MD who does the pronouncing, the LPN or RN takes the telephone order, at least in WI.

[txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN]

so every time you have a death the md comes out to pronounce the patient dead? this is not something that can be done over the phone...

as far as i know its the md who does the pronouncing, the lpn or rn takes the telephone order, at least in wi.

[Simplepleasures]

so every time you have a death the md comes out to pronounce the patient dead? this is not something that can be done over the phone...

no, of couse the doc doesnt come out, as i said, the nurse takes the telephone order.maybe the confusion is in the semantics here.

[txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN]

ok this is the procedure everywhere i have ever worked. i guess i am just confused as to where the md comes in with pronouncing.

• rn pronounces the patient dead

• rn signs the pronouncement form

• a nurse calls the doctor to inform of death

• nurse writes order to release body to funeral home

• later md signs death cert.

no, of couse the doc doesnt come out, as i said, the nurse takes the telephone order.maybe the confusion is in the semantics here.

[Simplepleasures]

ok this is the procedure everywhere i have ever worked. i guess i am just confused as to where the md comes in with pronouncing.

• rn pronounces the patient dead

• rn signs the pronouncement form

• a nurse calls the doctor to inform of death

• nurse writes order to release body to funeral home

• later md signs death cert.

ok, now im getting confused:bugeyes:all i can say is this is the way we did it for the almost 30 years i was in ltc;

pt. dies

we, an lpn or rn calls the doc.

doc says ok , when did he die.write the order to send to funeral home.

nurse writes order, which includes time of death,"words like absent of vital signs at 10;02 pm" and "may release body to funeral home".its the doc who actually has "pronounced", the words "pronounce" are not nessesarily used, we are just repeating what he has said on the telephone order.

funeral home comes to pick up body, nurse rn or lpn signs funeral home release form, we keep a copy for our records. telephone order copy gets sent to doc, he signs it.he signs death certificate. thats how its done in wi, unless its changed in the last two years.

[txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN]

i have never had a doc pronounce a patient. well i take that back maybe once while he was in the building. the rn in the building does it or one is called in to do it. the rn signs the pronouncement form and then will call the doc to let them know the patient died.

ok, now im getting confused:bugeyes:all i can say is this is the way we did it for the almost 30 years i was in ltc;

pt. dies

we, an lpn or rn calls the doc.

doc says ok , when did he die.write the order to send to funeral home.

nurse writes order, which includes time of death,"words like absent of vital signs at 10;02 pm" and "may release body to funeral home".its the doc who actually has "pronounced", the words "pronounce" are not nessesarily used, we are just repeating what he has said on the telephone order.

funeral home comes to pick up body, nurse rn or lpn signs funeral home release form, we keep a copy for our records. telephone order copy gets sent to doc, he signs it.he signs death certificate. thats how its done in wi, unless its changed in the last two years.

[Simplepleasures]

i have never had a doc pronounce a patient. well i take that back maybe once while he was in the building. the rn in the building does it or one is called in to do it. the rn signs the pronouncement form and then will call the doc to let them know the patient died.

pronouncement form? no such critter in wi.

[txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN]

you don't have a form that the rn fills out when the patient dies.

pronouncement form? no such critter in wi.

[noc4senuf]

WI has a form that is called a Death Certificate. Lists the name, time of death, address of facility, name of attending and name of doctor giving order for pronouncement, the name of the funeral home, funeral director, if there are any communicable diseases, or if the death is reportable or not. No where does the word "pronouncement" actually appear. The time of death listed is the time the doctor actually talks to the RN/LPN on the phone, whether that is immediately upon discovery of no vital signs or even if it is an hour later before you get a call back.

[Twix]

Everytime someone dies at my facility, I call my friend the RN to come pronounce the patient. I usually ay to her, " Hey can you come and say "Yup they're dead."

[withasmilelpn]

Pronouncement is what the RN does when they determine the patient is deceased and what time the death occurred. There is no 'pronouncement' form, just the death certificate that the RN fills out person, date and time. The physician is required to fill out a dx as to cause of death and sign. If the RN could not 'pronounce' the patient would have to be sent to the hospital where a doctor would determine yes, the patient is dead and 'pronounce' that is the case.