LPN Petition to Take RN Boards

mustangqueen · Jul 25, 2008

I feel mabe there can be some kind of transition course through a college or something in a classroom enviornment so LPNs can make a transition, some kind of testing before even sitting for the boards. That may be a good idea.

tferdaise · Jul 25, 2008

I think one of the biggest issues facing LPN's isn't the fact that we do not know what we are doing, but other schools looking at our transcripts and the class's in whch we took. Remember, 90% of LPNs went to a "tech" school. So in thier minds Tech schools are above High School and below Community College. I'm sorry if this offense anyon but its the truth. But it doesn't take away that we know what we are doing on the floor.

I'm currently at the Univeristy of Phoenix, they have a ground program LPN to BSN.

Now I agree with what you wrote that the hospitals needs to help the LPN's. Currently were I work, there are programs that help the CNA to get thier RN's and RN's to theri BSN's, but there are no programs to help the LPN to get thier RN/BSN's. I brought this up to our Director of Educations and I got hot air blown up my (you know what) regarding this. Last week we had a townhall meeting with the CEO and I brought it up to her, at the meeting there were 10 LPNs wanting to get thier BSNs. Im sure there will be a new program coming down the pipeline soon...

I believe they need to look at our LPN's for staffing and offer assistance for them to go from LPN to RN if they are going to be giving money away to people with NO nursing experience at all.
They need to assist our LPN's to an RN first!
If they can use accelerated bachelor's programs with people that have NO medical experience, then they can incorporate something for LPN's. If they are giving away funding, they should start with LPN's because they already have some experience.
Just as there are brand new grads that can pass boards and not cut it as a nurse, the LPN would be responsible for her own level of knowledge as well as her license. There are a lot of nurses out there that I wouldn't want taking care of my loved ones so just because they passed boards, doesn't mean they are ready.
I'm just thinking that if this "shortage" is such a crisis that they are willing to give away education.....then start with the cheapest and quickest and most available. Get LPN's to RN's.

Kashia, ASN, LVN · Jul 26, 2008

If an experienced (in acute care) LVN/LPN could sit and pass the

NCLEX-RN, how would you discern they are not ready to practice?

Isn't that the point of the NCLEX...to determine readiness to practice, knowledge, comprehension of material, critical thinking?

So, lets say a LVN passed this test. What is your rationale for determining they are not qualified? Fact not emotion here please.

This is how you actually got your RN, right? You passed NCLEX.

suzanne4, RN · Jul 26, 2008

CA has the 30-unit option program, that is completed, and then they can sit for the NCLEX-RN exam. But that license that they get is not valid in any other state in the entire US. No degree is issued with it.

Other than CA and the VA that will permit a military corpsman to challenge the NCLEX-PN exam, there is no longer any way for the LPN to challenge the RN exam. Or for anyone else with any other training to challenge the nursing exams and most definitely no longer the RN exam. Even with years of experience, the rules have now been changed in every state to require the additional training an approved school of nursing before approval will be given to write the NCLEX-RN exam.

Pipsqueak, ADN · Jul 26, 2008

So, lets say a LVN passed this test. What is your rationale for determining they are not qualified? Fact not emotion here please.
This is how you actually got your RN, right? You passed NCLEX.

But taking the NCLEX is not how you obtain an RN degree. First you must attend an approved school. Learn the required curriculum, take tests on every course that is part of the curriculum, prove your competency thru clinical practice and testing, maintain a certain grade throughout the process to graduate, THEN you are eligible to take the NCLEX.

There is no way possible the NCLEX could cover everything your supposed to be learning in school, so in that respect I don't think the NCLEX alone can determine readiness to practice, knowledge, comprehension of material, and critical thinking. The whole process from start to finish is what determines all of those things.

I am not saying that the LPN needs to start over, obviously us LPN's have a very broad knowledge base. We should be able to skip the basics. We don't need to be tested on how to make a bed, how to do a bed bath, or how to give an injection, etc. Some of us work hard to educate ourselves and stay current. But the fact remains that we are not RN's, we did not receive the same education as an RN, and we need to be able to learn, or if you think you already know it, then prove what you know by attending and graduating from an approved school, then finally NCLEX.

Kashia, ASN, LVN · Jul 26, 2008

In many states, CNAs are required to complete a formal curriculum and pass a state certification exam, which, unlike NCLEX, includes demonstration of hands-on skills. Also, many states allow experienced CNAs to become certified in medication administration, and pass oral and topical meds under the supervision of licensed nurses. Considering this, some would argue that there is relatively little difference between the practice of an experienced med-certified CNA and an LPN/LVN.
Disclaimer: I am not saying I agree with this, because I don't, just like I don't support LPNs challenging RN boards without additional formal education. I am simply playing devil's advocate that what is considered for one category of healthcare provider should also be considered for another.

In California at least, experienced CNA's can , after meeting the requirements, challenge the LVN Nclex.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Jul 26, 2008

Even within the same state, schools are requiring different criteria to graduate from their programs. Some Associate Degree RN programs require chemistry, others do not, even within the same CUNY (community college) system.

I graduated from a community college that initiated their first LPN to RN bridge program. I was in the first LPN program they had. We take most of the same pre-requisite courses the RNs took, minus Biological Chemistry, ENG 102 and microbiology. I was just reading my friend's information and now, I see that those that transitioned to the bridge program are no longer required to take BioChem, but can take Introduction to Chemistry. Now, what is the difference?? None, from what I see. But, if a student decides to apply for the RN program from the jump has to take BioChem, the bridge students get to take Introduction to CHemistry, which I assume would be an easier class, but they BOTH will be practicing RNs once they pass NCLEX?? I don't understand it... Reasons like this make me say that I really hated school...they are not consistent in their requirements.

Pipsqueak, ADN · Jul 26, 2008

In California at least, experienced CNA's can , after meeting the requirements, challenge the LVN Nclex.

I've heard this before, and I gotta admit, it just blows my mind. Even though CNA's are taught and can do many tasks, they really are not taught any theory behind why some of these tasks need to be done. And yet California will not accept Excelsior College LPN to RN graduates even though many are experienced nurses, and it is a difficult program with all the required curriculum. Seems kinda hippocrital to me.

And to all the states that do not accept or have restrictions on Excelsior graduates, I really cannot see them permitting LPN's to just challenge the RN NCLEX without the appropriate schooling.

Jules A, MSN · Jul 26, 2008

If an experienced (in acute care) LVN/LPN could sit and pass the
NCLEX-RN, how would you discern they are not ready to practice?
Isn't that the point of the NCLEX...to determine readiness to practice, knowledge, comprehension of material, critical thinking?
So, lets say a LVN passed this test. What is your rationale for determining they are not qualified? Fact not emotion here please.
This is how you actually got your RN, right? You passed NCLEX.

Like others have said its not just about NCLEX. Call me silly but I feel very confident that I could have passed NCLEX with 3 months worth of independent study and my Saunders book before I ever set foot in a nursing class. Does that mean I would be even remotely competent? Heck no.

Jolie, BSN · Jul 26, 2008

In California at least, experienced CNA's can , after meeting the requirements, challenge the LVN Nclex.

I have no desire to wade thru the CA BON website, so I'll take your word for this, unlikely as it sounds. Couple this with the OP's proposition that experienced LPNs be allowed to challenge RN boards, and we create the situation where it would be possible for someone with no more than formal CNA education to become a registered nurse. Absurd, don't you agree?

pagandeva2000, LPN · Jul 26, 2008

The inconsistences of nursing education is one of the things that made me hate school with an uncontrollable passion.

What is insane to me regarding scopes of practice is that they have ridiculous policies. For example: Most LPNs cannot perform IV push medications (or are limited to what meds can be pushed), or interfere with central lines. Yes, it is true, the RN is trained for these procedures, however, in reality, what difference would it make WHO did it...meaning that if I, as a human being pushes a drug versus an RN, will the fact that she pushed it automatically stop the process of what is happening because it is a direct hit into the vein? No...but the difference would be that the RN would be better trained to further intervene. Another insane example is that in my hospital, LPNs cannot administer flu or pneumococcal vaccines unless they are screened by an RN first. They ask if the patient has allergies, when was the last time they had a vaccine, and then, is is appropriate to administer, then, they can permit us to do it. While I know that any vaccine (or medication) has the potential for adverse or unexpected reactions, it is relatively lower for flu and pneumonia vaccinations. Basically, it is saying that it is not enough that a doctor ordered these vaccinations...I have to then tell the doctor that I cannot administer them independently because I am not an RN...essentially, I need permission from two people; the doctor (who is supposed to know more) and an RN. And, I have had RNs say that they don't want to screen them for a few silly reasons (such as, it has not been exactly five years since his last one-it is 4 years and 11 months-yes, this has happened, folks).

Meanwhile, when I am working on med-surg, I can hang potassium or magnesium piggies, which are prone to unexpected intervention. I would say that I would only want an RN to hang these medications, if the chance is high that something can happen that needed an RN assessment-intervention. Then, to know that one state will allow a '30 unit option' for a CNA to become an LPN demonstrates that the educational system and requirements are very lax.

I am not an RN basher. I want to support them every way possible, because I am a team player, and I am also a nurse. But, from seeing that so much of this is really so contradictory, I don't want to aggreviate myself with more problems than I already have, and I don't feel like playing their games.

Jules A, MSN · Jul 26, 2008

But, from seeing that so much of this is really so contradictory, I don't want to aggreviate myself with more problems than I already have, and I don't feel like playing their games.

I hear ya but my thoughts are that you are already being forced to play the games my dear Pagandeva2000. We all are really. So join me and have more job flexibility and more money for doing pretty close to exactly the same job you do so skillfully already.