Written up and confused. - page 2

I have been a nurse for 2 years now and have been fortunate enough to avoid any deaths on my shift until recently. Last week I had a hospice patient with a DNR who was exhibiting Cheyne-Stokes... Read More

  1. by   imintrouble
    Was it a LTC setting? You have to have an order for everything in LTC.

    I would be upset too, if I thought my boss was out to get me. However, I can guarantee you no BON in any state would consider jerking your license, because you suctioned a dying pt's mouth.
  2. by   mathilda843
    This kind of thing is exactly why I would never encourage anyone to go into nursing at this point in time! It's only going to get worse as far as non-clinical management setting priorities and goals when they have absolutely no idea how to care for a patient! Yes, some things look just ducky on paper, don't they? But we all know that in real life there's most often not only black and white choices.
    You certainly did the right thing...get out of there while you can!! What a shame that managers and administrators are ruining new nurses with their (managers, admin) view of patient care...
  3. by   pageturnstyle
    I spoke to my DON and she advised me to attach my own written statement to the write up. She said signing the write up only indicates that it was read to me, not that it was an admission of guilt. She agreed that I was providing comfort care and said she would look into the matter. She also said she would do an inservice for the unit managers to help prevent intimidation and other inappropriate behavior in the future.
  4. by   CapeCodMermaid
    You did the right thing.
  5. by   brandy1017
    No you did the right thing! IT was a comfort measure otherwise the patient would choke and not be able to breathe!
  6. by   netglow
    Does she know you did oral suctioning? Was she thinking you deep suctioned for some reason? Check to be sure she understands it was oral suctioning you did - not deep. This is because deep suctioning causes pain and choking (as you know) but maybe you don't if you've not done it to an awake vent assisted patient. The look in their eyes if they've had some uncaring RTs do it - pure terror.

    Hospice pretty much is against deep suctioning. Patients are put on Scop patches hopefully before it gets to that point. But oral care is given often, and suction is very commonly ordered as DME in case of this very thing happening.
  7. by   RNsRWe
    Dumbfounded, I am.

    I can understand if you did deep suctioning (endotracheal); facilities and RTs can be weird about who is allowed, etc etc. But a YANKOWER?!

    In NO WAY could clearing crap out of a dying patient's mouth be considered anything but compassionate, BASIC care. It wasn't going to prolong her life (unless, of course the plan was to MAKE her choke on old food??).

    Ridiculous, and I'd fight it tooth and nail. Your manager is a nincompoop, period.
  8. by   netglow
    Your NM could also be "one of those". The type of nurse that believes all hospice patients need to just die and the faster the better. Choking/drowning is fine to them whether on food or bile or blood or what I call lung water. Some of this type actually believe that you are making them live longer if you try to give comfort care. To these nurses, you either let the person die naturally by any means (hands off, except for changing briefs) or you just load that syringe and push fast.
  9. by   LivingADream
    You did not do anything wrong! This is total BS. When a pt is a DNR you are still supposed to make them comfortable. You were looking out for your patients best interest. You need to go above your supervisor on this one.
  10. by   echoRNC711
    She also said she would do an inservice for the unit managers to help prevent intimidation and other inappropriate behavior in the future.

    Well done. It's hard to be courageous. Great job!
  11. by   MADALENE4591
    My heart goes out to you! I have been in your shoes and in the real "nursing world" please be extremely careful when you venture in
    following the so-called "chain of command" path. I got terminated for doing the "right" thing and at times Administrators are in a fantasy world and don't want any employee rocking the boat! If you are seeing " red" flags that managers are piling up derogatory
    reports, you need to have an escape plan and look for employment elsewhere as the integrity of the manager is questionable and you are in a very hostile working environment. If you don't have strong alliances at the top , you are putting your nursing career on the line
    It caused me dearly and my 25 yrs impeccable nursing career got ruined because of senseless and malicious gossips !!!
    I fought hard because of good principle but unfortunately , I was dealing with different caliber of people .... Take care and good luck!

    P.S. If managers are issuing Corrective Actions ... make sure you write a rebuttal on the C.A. Statement. Unfortunately, the prevailing rule per institutional policy = refusal to sign is automatic termination on the spot unless you file a grievance with HR and again make sure you have a strong basis to support a claim and always have a witness during any disciplinary proceedings and make anecdotal notes in your memory bank of issues that might back fire.
  12. by   nursything
    I mean, you could have just as soon reached in and scooped it out with a swab or toothbrush. You don't need a doctor's order to perform oral care do you? But how gross and undignified is that? And what if something had droped back into her throat as you did that? THAT would've killed her. So, I'm sure the suction was quick, clean, and safer. The removal of the pocketed food was appropriate, regardless of what tool you used. I think you demonstrated a decent amount of critical thinking and problem-solving. Especially since it would have just rotted in her mouth (also undignified) and the family would have to be in there sitting with the stench (also undignified and obstructive to their grieving process). Don't let her do this to you.
  13. by   jadelpn
    You know you did the right thing. Comfort care and DNR's don't equal no treatment. You did not un-necessarily prolong the patient's suffering, nor did you do anything that would be out of the norm of comfort care. A yankaur suction to the mouth is definetely not something that needs an order in most facilities. You were not deep suctioning the patient--and even then, sometimes that is needed to alleviate the patient's distress that no amount of morphine could help. I wonder what the family would have said if said patient choked on the pocketed food, started flailing and gagging.....that would have been a heartbreaking scene and completely uncalled for.

    Apparently your NM needs the education on how to conduct herself appropriately. Hopefully, she will take it to heart.