ANA discriminates against LPN/LVN - page 3
The ANA is discriminating against LPNs and LVNs. American Nurses Association. No mention there abour REGISTERED? nope . To me that means ALL nurses. They should be forced to allow our membership or... Read More
May 14, '01Occupation: RN Joined: Oct '00; Posts: 2,662; Likes: 46E&GW = Economic & General Welfare
thats the collective bargaining branch of our association. http://www.nysna.org/PROGRAMS/EGW/HOME.HTM
yes w, you are so right. you ARE becoming more & more ridiculous. enjoy yourself.
May 15, '01Occupation: RN Joined: Oct '00; Posts: 2,662; Likes: 46The difference between us is that while you are demanding everyone cease & desist what they are doing & instead do everything YOUR way, and your motto seems to be "my way or the highway", I am saying you are entitled to your opinion, you have the right to do your own thing, you have the right to & should seek out whatever works best for you & be as active as you can be to accomplish what is needed.
However, do not trample on the rights of others to do the same in their own way and with whichever group they choose.
You have the right to join any organization you want - or to join no organziation at all. So do the rest of us. So get off our back about the choice we made in choosing our national professional association.
3 states did not leave the ANA. Only 1 small association & only the labor piece of 2 others have done so in the last 6 yrs. The rest of those 2 associations REMAIN with the ANA along with 52 others. If the members choose to leave that is their choice. If they choose to stay, that is also their choice. It seems those who choose to leave are continually trying too hard to rationalize their choice to others. Forget it. Everyone has the right to their own choice - make it, & move forward. There is no time to waste with animosity.
If you find that one organization is not to your liking, dont join it. Move on & put your energy to good use with another - focus on fixing the immediate problems, not on complaining about what you dont like about an organziation you dont even belong to.
You dont like it? Fine. Dont join.
No one is dictating to you what choice you must make or what action you must take. No one is forcing you to do things their way. So afford everyone else the same courtesy.
Our existence does not interfere with your activity & does not stand in the way of any effort you want to make with whatever group you choose to be involved with. We are all fighting the same fight. Consider it a war with strategic attacks from all sides instead of all from one direction. You do it your way, we'll do it our way, most of us will work it together & it will get done. But nothing will get done if we spend all day pointing the guns at each other. Make your choice, get involved with whomever you want to be involved with & get to work.
Sitting around griping about who chooses which organiztion is not getting anybody anywhere. Get up & DO something about the problems.
WE are. And We are not going away.
Staffing Crisis Lobby Day, June 26, 2001
Plan to join nurses across the country as they take their message to Capitol Hill for the
Staffing Crisis Lobby Day on June 26, 2001, 9:00 a.m.-3:00 p.m. in Washington, DC.
This will be an opportunity to unite with nurses, their families, colleagues, and friends to deliver a critical message that patients and nurses are at risk in today’s hospitals......... http://www.uannurse.org/
"the union for nurses by nurses"
May 15, '01Occupation: Utilization Review, prior Intake Mgr Home Care Specialty: 40 year(s) of experience in Home Care, Vents, Telemetry, Home infusion ; From: PA, US ; Joined: Oct '00; Posts: 27,572; Likes: 13,783Sorry Wildtime,
Any organization created by CNA, MNA and even PASNAP will not represent everyone. Some of these local unions have LPN's as members, others do not. CNA's are not offered membership. They specifically state BEDSIDE nurses, which will eliminate anyone at Drs offices, clinics, managment, academia,and administration. PASNAP does offer associate membership, nonvoting for $100.00 year. So for a those of you looking for an all encompasssing group, this group won't be it either. Looks like no group membership is less than $50.00. Membership in NFLPN runs $55 to $86/year.
May 16, '01Occupation: RN Joined: Oct '00; Posts: 2,662; Likes: 46That is your stance remember. That is what I have heard you preach in one form or another every since I have came to this bulletin board.
I think you have me confused with someone else. I always have said you are free to make your own choice but let others make theirs. Either you attribute the posts of others to me, are reading into my posts things that are not there, or are simply hallucinating again. Doesnt matter to me. You are entitled to your opinion (as I have also said before).
FYI, if you want an all-inclusive organziation, try SEIU/1199. 1199 was started by a pharmacist as a union for pharmacists & expanded to include all health-care workers - including RNs, CNAs & LPNs, as well as lab techs,housekeepers,etc. It is now part of SEIU, the largest healthcare worker union in the country. From what you say it sounds like CNA wants to compete with THEM - but SEIU has over a million members so they'll have a long way to go. Some of us choose to be part of an organization that is concerned with & devotes all of its efforts & resources to only RN issues - issues of concern to ALL RNs - not just bedside RNs. So I'll say it again since you have not noticed in any of my posts - you are free to do whatever you want so just do it. But dont try to prevent others from making their own choices too. And dont blame me for your failure to get your career on the path it should have been on. Not me nor the ANA is standing in your way.
May 16, '01Occupation: Nurse Clinician/Case Manager Specialty: 20 year(s) of experience in Pediatric Rehabilitation ; From: US ; Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 2,830; Likes: 67Now they want us to join the UAN / ANA or just join the ANA. Could it just be declining revenue which fostered this focus? It is pretty sad to have a national organization which could be possibly motivated on revenue as deciding its focus. The small percentage of membership has not determined their focus over the years. It seems that the direct competition of other groups has caused to to wake up though.[/QB][/QUOTE]
I suspect it's more a matter of opportunity than competition. As we saw with the MNM, now is the time to make money "speaking" for nurses, be it legit or not. I don't believe they needed a wake up call, they just needed a bunch of miserable nurses. They got it, but I seriously doubt they'll do much good. The shortage itself will be our best ally.
May 16, '01Occupation: RN student wife mother Joined: May '01; Posts: 59; Likes: 1I was appalled by the snide comments I have read thus far. We call ourselves professionals?? Is it any wonder that other professions (including our own) don't recognize us as such? There does not seem to be any cohesiveness among us. That seems to be why the nursing profession can't get anything accomplished without infighting and backstabbing. God help us.
I happen to be ADN prepared. I worked very very hard as I'm sure all of you did. Nursing school is tough, and is no picnic when you are raising 4 young children. During college, I was blessed to train under some well prepared LPNs that provided excellent hands on care, and was quite impressed with their compassion, knowledge and caring. On the flip side, we have all worked with BSNs fresh out of school, and wind up spoon feeding them for a time, yes, the focus is, by and large, on management.In the facility where I work (itty bitty 25 bed hospital in rural north Iowa), most of us are ADN or diploma grads. We also take many classes to enhance our training to be able to function well in crital care, ER, & OR. Our pay scale is very competitive with area hospitals. I started 17 years ago at $6.45/hr, so I don't think $14 to start is too bad, provided incremental raises are given consistently after a probationary period. I have been at the top of the scale for years, but I am content with my hourly wage and the benefits, some of which can not have a price put on them, such as co-workers you consider as friends and family.
However, I found myself wanting a little more. My goal is to teach, and you can't do that with an ADN, regardless of the amount of experience you may have. I worked my tail off to complete my BSN, now working it off some more (not that it can't use the exercise!) in addition to going broke (I happen to be family oriented too) working on my masters and will allow no one to make me feel guilty about the desire for more education!!! There is only one class I have taken I didn't feel was quite necessary. The point is to be well rounded (whatever that my be--except my shape maybe).
I agree the BSN as entry level will never fly, especially now with the country in an uproar over the nursing shortage. This was a big scare even 19 years ago! However, a close look at the demographics tell us there are less than 10% of all nursing school enrollees preparing for advanced practice careers. So tell me, who are the instructors, managers and administrators going to be--hmmm? Does this mean ADNs are not capable? Of course not--so don't go into orbit over that remark. Does it mean that the LPN or ADN are any less of a nurse?? The answer to that is an unequivocal NOOOO!! Only if you see yourself as such. But shame on the ANA for not considering any LPN a nurse. I don't really think Hot Spam meant the LPN wanted to be considered a BSN, but he/she certainly deserves to be recognised for her own merit. ACNPs reply was cruel and insensitive (with mis-spelled words--and that from a 4.0 GPA). We have one on our staff, we do not trust her-she will not back you up, and delights in cutting a nurse to ribbons in front of family members, and she was a NURSE?? Give me a break. No, not all nurses are the same, God didn't make us all alike. But I will repeat--that does not make an LPN less of a nurse.
jt-(that happens to be my son's name)-as far as creating a 2-tiered system?? Possibly. Let's be realistic. There are certain things an LPN is not allowed to do--IVs for example unless she/he has training. One's own state nurse practice act spells out very definitely what is or isn't allowed. An RN without specific training is not allowed to intubate unless training is provided. I won't be the first one in line to scream foul for not letting me do that in the course of a normal day-thank you very much! Although I am trained to do it, it really isn't on my list of fun things to do.
This "profession" needs to find some unity, a common ground to work from, and shared respect for each other to elicit change (it will happen with or without us). It is in our best interest to do just that.
You have all provided me with an afternoon of "entertainment", and a lot of food for thought. Thanks.
May 16, '01Occupation: LPN, RHIT Joined: May '01; Posts: 1I've been reading the posts on this topic. I've been an LPN for over 20 yrs. I stepped out of hands on nursing approx 5 yrs ago. I came to the crossroads of realizing I needed to go back to school but as what. The thought of returning for my RN with associate degree did cross my mind, but all the classes when I had previously taken for for associate degree in another area years ago would not apply: Chemistry, Biology, etc. Plus, the fact that I could only get one quarter credit for all my already learned hands on skills. The thought of having to retake all these classes and waste a year was discouraging. What could I do that I could use my experience and still stay in health care? I returned to school to become a Health Information Technician.
With this I belong to an association that recognizes all that work with Health Information and have different levels of education. This includes coders and transcriptionists.
The reason that I an posting this is that I do not regret my years as a nurse. I did some great things. Its just the elitism that is out there. If you are an RN frowned upon because you only got you ADN. LPN because you aren't an RN. The Nursing Assistants because need I continue. We all work together. The BSN got this elitist attitude that we need primary care nursing and all nurses need to be a BSN. They are the only ones with the advance training to do a proper patient assessment. Well we are in a nursing shortage folks maybe its time you all learned to play together and learn to use others skills. I am happy in my new profession but have kept my nursing license current. I belong to an association that recognizes all and has separate areas for each speciality. Why can't the ANA if they want to represent nursing do this? Or maybe someone should start an organization that does?
May 16, '01Occupation: lpn Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 16; Likes: 1I have been an LPN for 10 years, I am returning to school in the fall to pursue my BSN, and I pray for GOD to help me not turn out like most of the RN's with a BSN that I have had the displeasure of working with. I work on a rehab/acute care unit, and oh my!!! I'M THE CHARGE NURSE. I made the decision to further my education because I love what I do and would like to heard by the general nursing public. It's sad that most of those with a BSN don't realize how important all nursing roles are. We are supposed to be working together for the good of the patient. I have yet had a patient in pain ask if I was a nurse with a diploma or a degree. And for the elitest, it's best the you aren't "bedside nurses", the patients need a little compassion not alot of attitude.
May 17, '01Occupation: RN, CLNC Joined: Aug '00; Posts: 0; Likes: 3Well, I started out as a CNA, then LVN, am now an ADN working on my BSN (for 15yrs.now) and plan to get a dual masters within the next 5 years. Nothing wrong with any of the education, or the jobs. I am getting the education to satisfy those who think only degreed individuals can think, but I will continue to work for the bedside nurse, and will always do some form of hands on nursing. That is what I do and what I love. Health care is changing and if we don't change with it, we will be left behind, lacking and fustrated once again. The fighting between us has got to stop, and the movement for recognition, control of our profession, better pay and working conditions has got to move forward. If you don't like something in your life, you change it (husbands, jobs, weight, hair color, etc.) well, nursing as a profession is no different. It will take all of us to work together to move into the future, a future we choose for ourselves. If this is it, then we are in real trouble.
May 17, '01Joined: Jun '00; Posts: 11; Likes: 1I have to admit that the bickering on this board is what is in the work place also. It's true that nurse's eat their young, just listen to what's going on here.
Whether I'm an LPN or a BSN doesn't mean anything to my patients. It's whether I can teach them what they need to know to take care of themselves and whether I can take care of them until they get to that point.
What would a BSN do without the ADN or LPN working the floor with her/him. Healthcare is already in trouble and for anyone who thinks the hospitals, LTC, or insurance companies are willing to pay big bucks for all BSN nurse's you're dreaming. I respect nurse's who know 1)they're own limits and 2) who respect me and my limits and my knowledge. Maybe I know somethings that you may have missed and vice versa. A degree doesn't mean crap if you're so educated that you no longer have any common sense or all you can think about is how you're above the hands on work.
I know I have a lot to learn but I also know that in this profession you never stop learning. It's my job to collect the data and let the M.D. call the shots. But I can tell you that many times I've picked up on things the RN or the MD have missed. So let's quit the arguing about who's better. Every nurse is needed today and you should be happy to have the extra hands - some day that nurse upon whom you're down on might save your butt from a lawsuit.
May 17, '01Occupation: Nurse Clinician/Case Manager Specialty: 20 year(s) of experience in Pediatric Rehabilitation ; From: US ; Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 2,830; Likes: 67I think perhaps this BSN superiority thing is more a facility thing than a BSN vs ASN vs LPN thing. My facility treat all RN's the same, there is like a 25 cent differential in pay from ASN to BSN. Beyond that the only other barrier is climbing the ladder to upper management, which usually requires a MSN. I'm an ASN and work with several BSN's. They lack this attitude I continue to hear about here..or perhaps I do not see it because I'm so confident in my ASN ability. My MSN manager actually prefers ADN nurses over BSN, stating they're better suited for patient care and the BSN more suited for the business side of nursing. Personally, with the shortage, I could care less what letters fall behind someone's name. If you can share the load with me, I welcome the opportunity to work with you. And yes, just as I feel ASN deserves perks over LPN, I also feel BSN nurses deserve perks over ASN. There has to be some reward for surviving more of the torture of nursing school.
Jul 2, '10Occupation: LPN Specialty: 3 year(s) of experience in geriatrics, orthopedic rehab ; From: US ; Joined: Feb '10; Posts: 9; Likes: 8Someone has some serious anger management issues (talking to you monkey lady). LPN's --love ya--you all do a wonderful job!!!
Aug 6, '10Joined: Aug '10; Posts: 1Quote from Brownms46Furthermore, the longstanding conviction that the BSN should be the entry level into nursing will never be adhered to. Thus, I am an advocate of having LPNs join the ANA in a limited capacity. There clearly needs to be unity within this field. But make no mistake. While unity is imperative for nursing to progress, there is a reason for the hierarchy. All nurses ARE NOT the same.Here is an advocate of LPNs being admitted to the ANA, even if it is in a "limited capacity"! This post was made by tim,acnp. Lpn/vn, read it carefully, and see if you wish to be included in an organization with those who think like this!
Member # 10664
posted May 06, 2001 09:44 PM
Okay, look. I have not the time, the will, nor the desire to argue
Yet, I find hilarious the number of LPNs who THINK they have what it takes to be an RN. Everyone wants to be considered a professional, BUT VERY FEW are willing to put forth the effort to reach that level. There are DISTINCT DIFFEERNCES in the education of an LPN vs. an ADN. And the BSN? The differences in education are incomparable. Okay, okay.....so you are better at making beds, inserting foleys, or other "technical" duties. So is a highly trained monkey. But can you think critically? Let me answer that for you....NO. 90% of LPNs don't know the meaning of critical thinking, much less have the ability to apply it. I think that it is safe to say that 99.9% of LPNs CANNOT take a critical situation and apply knowledge learned from physiology, pathophysiology, pharmacology etc. and apply it to that situation. It's possible to memorize a ton of information, but NOT UNDERSTAND ANY OF IT. That is precisely the reason why your scope of practice is limited, as well as why advanced practice nursing requires the BSN as a prerequisite.
Yet, as always, nursing continues to seek the least common denominator - that which is easiest. What is the easiest and fastest way I can obtain my AND? That is no different than me stating, "How many classes can I skip in medical school? After all, I have eight years of full-time college education (and every prerequisite for medical school). I hold a BSN (4.0 G.P.A.) as well as a Masc. (3.95 G.P.A), in conjunction to years of VALUBLE experience. Don't forget!!! I already have prescriptive privileges, and I've tutored many of your medical students over the past two years in physical assessment skills! That should count for something!!!!! Pu-leeeaassseeee. Do you think they give a damn? Of course not. It is called S-T-A-N-D-A-R-D-S. Get it? One more time...
S-T-A-N-D-A-R-D-S. By all means...pursue an AND (or whatever) in the fast track, but please...PLEASE - don't whine and moan because you aren't deemed a professional.
Furthermore, the longstanding conviction that the BSN should be the entry level into nursing will never be adhered to. Thus, I am an advocate of having LPNs join the ANA in a limited capacity. There clearly needs to be unity within this field. But make no mistake. While unity is imperative for nursing to progress, there is a reason for the hierarchy. All nurses ARE NOT the same.
As always, this is not meant to be construed as insensitive or rude. However, the issue has apparently become cloudy, and the need for clarification is quite evident. I am done with this issue. Take care.
Posts: 63 | From: | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged
In the world of Hogwarts I believe you would have been placed in Slytherin house... your definatly an alitist. It sounds to me that you first look at a nurses credentials before you weigh the quality of the individual nurses abilities.
As for myself, as my username would imply, Im relitivly new to the world of nursing.. though my heart has been in it for a bit longer. I first made the decision to become an RN by the help of a family friend who at the time was and still currently is a working anesthesiologist. Before she became a doctor, she worked as an RN. Her life story has been a tragic one, I will not give much more information but simply to say, she came to this country as a refugee from south vietnam. As a teenager she would do many low wage paying jobs; until the day came when she new she wanted to become a nurse. To make a story short, she obtained her RN and didn't stop with her BSN. She soared in her field and her place of employment payed for her to give seminars on nursing matters in the hospital setting. She later made it her goal to become a doctor, and also achieved this.
I take great honor in the fact that after careful consideration she recomended me to the nursing field. At the time I already had my AA degree and was still undecided on what exactly I wanted to become. She told me in so many words "You know Alejandro, the way I see you interact with my children, and the way you are so caring and considerate, you should become a nures!" She then went on to explain to me that "the nursing profession needs good young compassoinate men like yourself."
In the endevor to become a nurse, I made the dicision to start my experience from the bottom rung in the ladder. I first obtained and worked as a Certified Nursing Assistant. I must addmit I learned a lot about working with residents, LVN's, RN's, and the doctors. I can surely say that for every compatent profesional there is there is one who is not quite there.
I must admit that even though your argument seems to miss the main point, after reading it I must be the first in the forum to congradulate you on your high schoolastic marks. Im sure their must be no one prouder of you than yourself. My hats off to you truly
But It would be responsible of me to redirect the focus of these posts back to the subject..
You see based on the many responses from ANA members like yourself; I find no other alternative but for us LVN/LPN's to form our own association/union. At least until the time comes when you and your ilk can see that having us as part of your association is possitive and not a negative.
I truly have more self respect not only for myself, but for all other LVN/LPN's than to accept your offer to join your ANA in how did you put it "I am an advocate of having LPNs join the ANA in a limited capacity."
Clearly there needs to be a union/association who's governing body will be a protective sheild spanning across to protect the broud range of LVN/LPN's working in California. It wouldn't be fair to pick and choose "a limited capacity" of LVN/LPN's whom to offer membership.
This is why Im now convinced that we LVN/LPN's need our own association. I want the world to see how truly VALUBLE we are.......