LPN IV Push

deespoohbear · Aug 6, 2002

Indiana must have a wide scope of practice for LPN's. I work at a small county hospital and our LPN's can do everything I do except for retrieve blood from the blood bank. They can hang the blood, monitor the blood and etc, but can't sign it out. :confused: Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me that they can't sign out blood. To me signing out blood is a lot "easier" task than hanging blood and monitoring for reaction sx, fluid overload, and all the other possibilities with blood. Our LPN's do IVP's, do daily assessments, start IV's, hang IVPB's. I am grateful they can do that. Our facility is decent about letting them do a lot. The larger facility that I did my nursing clinicals at about 10 years ago didn't let their LPN's do squat. They couldn't do heart sounds, bowel sounds or lung sounds. They couldn't do IVP's, hang blood, monitor blood. I thought they got treated like glorified CNA's. This thread has been interesting.

NMAguiar · Aug 6, 2002

Just to rethink myself...

In California there is a move afoot to allow LVNs to give IV medications -- which seems like a terrible idea to me.

... I would take a dedicated and careful LVN pushing any medication flowing into my body over a few jaded and burned-out RNs I know. That's a fact! :chair:

tenarnc · Aug 6, 2002

I have worked in a few hospitals that allow LPN's to give IVP drugs. Where I work now there are only allowed to hand iv fluids, no blood, and can only flush saline locks or c-lines once they have been accessed by an RN. I believe it is determined by each hospitals policy what they can do. Myself, I don't have a problem with LPN's giving pushes as long as they get the proper training and know the effects of the drugs they are giving.

dianas · Aug 6, 2002

I don't want to sound awful to all you RN's but I to was an LPN and could push what ya'll do. I had to be certified. Now that I am an RN I still feel the LPN is able to do IV pushes. If you are a true nurse with training you know what to look for side effects, how long to push the drug, and what it is now compatable with. If not I firmly believe that you would look it up. So as an RN don't look down on the LPN they are just as much our colleagues as the RN they still indeed are nurses. Everyone complains of the nursing shortage well I firmly believe if they stop and think hire LPN's in certain areas there would be less of a shortage. I think it is a disgrace to put someone down just because of the initial behind there name. Look at the intial DR. do all RN's feel looked down on because we are not Doctors no. Stop and treat each and everyone equal. As an RN myself that is less work to have to go and push a drug or start a transfusion. And then come back and care for my other patients.

TMPaul · Aug 6, 2002

nrw 350,

The difference between IVP and hanging a IV are many:

An intravenous push delivers a bolus of medication in a VERY short period of time (seconds to minutes) whereas an IV drip is calculated out to deliver a precise amount over a period of time.

Please keep in mind that both routes have the the potential for serious side effects (anaphylatic reactions, etc.) but (if there were to appear) it would be quicker and much worse with the IVP that with a slow administration (hanging an IV).

Hope this helps.

fadingyouth · Aug 6, 2002

Each state board has its own criteria and whether you are an LPN/LVN or RN the hospital further regulates your job skills/tasks/ performance.

Having ACLS, Chemo cert., BMT cert, a critical care course, advanced iv therapy, etc., does not necessarily mean that as an LVN/LPN one can work in any hospital anywhere.

While I am allowed to work in the critical care areas here (inc. ER and ICU), I have found that some states prohibit it.

There are hospitals that "allow" you to be a licensed aide or just a med nurse, while others allow you to be a nurse.

In the past I have found that errors are not created by the number of years in your field or by the initials behind your name.

I have seen pepcid,lasix , dilantin, adenocard given wrongly.

I have known Tele RN's to argue about what the rythmn was and refuse to accept an LVn's input. I have had patients in pain needing to wait till the RN was available to give the med.

Thank goodness that I presently do not work in a facility such as that described above, but work in one that allows LVN's to further their skills, appreciate their abilities, and where both the RN coordinator and the M.D. listen to your input.

I have always maintained that it is not necessarily the title, but the person behind it upon which judgment is made.

mattsmom81 · Aug 6, 2002

"I have always maintained it is not necessarily the title, but the person behind it ...' Fading Youth

So very true! Haven't we all known butthead docs we never would go to see because of their lousy attitude? And a lazy RN who sits at the desk and won't move off her/his azz to help even if there was a fire under 'em? I've worked with RN's who needed me to hold their hand with every procedure, and LPN's who were confident, competent and self sufficient !

Some LPN's are happily competent doing the 'minimum', and don't want the extra responsibilities...and that may be why they chose the LPN route. This is cool...'know thy limits...to thine own self be true' and all that jazz. Some competent LPN's want to learn and grow, do MORE...which is also cool. BOTH are good LPN's!!

I was the 2nd kind of LPN myself, and felt quite limited as an LPN in Minnesota, so I continued on to RN. If I'd been in Texas then, I might have stayed an LPN because of the liberal practice here. I'm glad ambitious LPN's have these opportunities available for them in Texas. :)

Also gotta say I've worked with some top notch NA's whose judgment, perception , observation, and communication skills are better than a few nurses I put up...er...work with. LOL!

Now this being said, we are fools if we don't know the limits imposed by our states and facilities. For our individual practice, AND those we supervise. If we choose to work outside these limits, we're in for bigtime trouble down the line, as it will catch up with us one day. :stone

stressedlpn · Aug 6, 2002

I had thought about moving up north however after reading all of these post heck no!!! I'll just stay down south where I actually get to use my training HA! anyway we LPNs are not all trying to just do things we have no clue about whats up. Personally if I am asked to do something I dont know how I go ask someone who does and go from there, and vice versa. we are a team even if we dont always act like it.brownie and mattsmom ya'll are my heroes. love to all kelli

Brownms46 · Aug 6, 2002

stressedlpn...what ya talking about gurl...you're my hero..along with a lot of awesome nurses on this BB!:kiss:!! You guys ROCK!!

And don't you dare take those awesome skills up north....cause they will just make you waste them!! Now go to bed...:chuckle

Youda · Aug 9, 2002

An early post said the difference was education, not the actual performing of the task. It is not difficult to do an IV push. But, does an LPN have the training, critical thinking skills, etc., to understand what CAN do wrong and what to do if it does go wrong? Does the LPN understand what exact medication is being given, the chemical properties and ramifications, the artery they're putting it into, the possible response of the heart, pulmonary system, etc.? These are just a couple of the possible "complications" that can occur that I learned as an RN that I was never taught as an LPN. I'm not saying LPNs are ignorant. I'm saying they haven't had AS MUCH training and needs, therefore, to have some limitations on licensure as a safety issue for the client. Those limitations determined by their State Boards, based upon the curriculums of the schools in that state.

dianas · Aug 10, 2002

Youda I realize what you are saying maybe not all LPN programs are alike but when I went to school for an LPN I had to attend for 18 months. I should of just went to RN school Then I would have had only 6 months left. But I learned an awful lot the complications what to do, what the coponets of the drug was etc. When I finally went back to RN school I did the bridge program I really didn't learn much more unless for the fact that I had worked as an LPN that I learned this along the way. I also learned I should of just did the RN program and not waste time

Patrick M6 · Jul 12, 2006

I am an LPN I orignally started my nursing in Virginia. I could do all I pushes in that facility. I could hang blood. I also could do dialysis We did exactly as the RN once we were IV certified. In Florida LPN's can't do much. Its like you are not even a nurse just a tech. In Virginia I could also take c-lines, and picc lines out I could insert porta cath huber needles. I sure wish I was an RN now that I live in Fl:rolleyes:

I've been an LVN/LPN for about 3 years. I've worked at several different hospitals in TX and GA. Now I work in FL and have just finished the IV course here. I have the broadest scope of practice now that I've had since becoming an LVN/LPN. I was never even able to take telephone/verbal orders in the past. As far as IV stuff goes, we can do basically anything except chemo drugs, plasma expanders, push investigational drugs, mix solutions (we can give solutions mixed in the pharmacy, or meds from the minibag plus system). I've got conflicting information about IV push meds. Depending on who you ask, you either can't give it at all, or you can give it as long as there's an RN nearby. We can't DC PICC lines though. It just depends a lot on what hospital you work at.