Long Term Effects of Marijuana Use?

tele_nurse · Mar 29, 2008

"Cognitive Deficits Associated With Heavy Marijuana Use Appear To Be Reversible" (from NIDA, Vol. 17, No. 1. April 2002)

The take home message is:

Two findings allowed the researchers to conclude that the cognitive deficits were associated with recent heavy use rather than total lifetime use. First, former heavy users showed no significant difference from the control subjects on any of the tests on any of the testing days. Also, the researchers found a clear relationship between lower test scores and higher levels of marijuana residues in urine at the beginning of the study, but no relationship between test scores and total lifetime marijuana use.

Methinks the problem with your associate isn't based on current or past cannabis use, but perhaps abuse of other (read: legal) substances, specifically EtOH. Either that or she has some form of undiagnosed mental illness/depression. Other drugs will fry your wetware, too (specifically MDMA/Ecstasy, Meth, etc.).

As far as the brain goes, cannabis is pretty innocuous.

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Mar 29, 2008

I dunno. I knew someone who smoked marijuana for years, and his cognition was significantly impaired - years later.

I also have a friend on several psych drugs, and I have seen the changes in her cognition. She can't focus. It's like she's scattered. So it isn't always illegal substances affecting cognition and behavior/judgement.

It's got to be bugging you, Deva, but I wonder if you'll just never know the etiology with this woman?

tulip928 · Mar 29, 2008

I know someone, as well, who smoked pot for a long time and has similar problems as your friend. It is my belief that it does affect the hippocampus and memory. It seems I have read of a study that concluded this. Discussions on this topic sometimes ruffle the feathers of those who use marijuana and want to legalize it's use.

PMHNP10 · Mar 29, 2008

I have read about the long term effects on people that use crack, powdered cocaine, opiates, alcohol, etc... But, what are long term effects of those that smoke (or that used to heavily smoke) marijuana use? There is a LPN orientee that I work with who is an old associate from years back (we don't hang out, but we do speak on the phone often). I strongly suspect that her brain is in a constant fog. It seems that the logic portion of her brain is short circuted, so to speak (almost like her brain is fried). I've been looking at my textbooks and have not gotten a real picture of what happens with chronic marijuana smokers? Actually, I don't know much about this person's personal life, but her actions to not seem to reflect a person that used the other drugs I mentioned.
She does not retain pertainent information. We can have very DEEP conversations and a day or two later, she will mention something that shows me she had no recollection of what I told her recently, or spoke about time after time again. We work in a hospital that has a policy of no sneakers (you guys remember my rant, and how I had to get a doctor's note to continue wearing mine) white pants, white shoes and solid pastel tops. This girl came in yesterday wearing a lab jacket, blue jeans and grey sneakers...telling me "I was just not with it today, but felt it was better to show up". We spoke for over a week about me getting my note to comply with policy, we were both disgusted with the Boy Toy who still wears his dirty sneakers, and then, I see her come to work TOTALLY out of uniform, and felt that this was okay. I know that we don't make as much money as LPNs, but, there was a difference in the pay, enough to at least continue to live as we had been as techs if we don't live out of our means. Her phones are always cut off. She has silly, insane excuses for why she didn't chart this, or tell the patient that. She doesn't seem to think that after leaving school, you still have to read and learn because of the great deal of patient teaching we have to do. I know, somehow, that this is residue from substance abuse, but it made me wonder which one (more of a curiousity situation, really). I've basically decided to stop showing her better ways to organize herself, to critically think to the best of her ability or survival skills to make life a bit easier, because while I love her as an associate, she is driving me crazy.

I haven't done the research yet, but my suspicion is that lung CA and COPD are major issues. If I'm not mistaken, when compared to tobacco, there are 60x the carcinogens in THC and there are no filters in a joint and in general the inhalation process is far more deep than that of a cigarette (except in Bill Clinton's case of course). Maybe research indicates no significant issues with respiratory functioning, but my hypothesis makes sense to me.

What is fascinating is that marijuana use is no new trend; nonetheless there is no good body of research that puts it in the category of cocaine, heroin, LSD, etc. in terms of how dangerous it might be. If I recall (and I'll admit my research is not up to date) there's alot of conflicting reports out there.

allnurses Guide · Mar 29, 2008

I know someone, as well, who smoked pot for a long time and has similar problems as your friend. It is my belief that it does affect the hippocampus and memory. It seems I have read of a study that concluded this. Discussions on this topic sometimes ruffle the feathers of those who use marijuana and want to legalize it's use.

BINGO!

I too have many friends (and an ex-husband) who were heavy users of pot and have cognitive deficits.

People can say this is anecdotal - which it is. But I have read studies which point to the accuracy of my experience.

Having taken statistics, I realize that the authors can skew info towards the way they wish it to conclude though . . :smokin:

steph

pagandeva2000, LPN · Mar 29, 2008

I dunno. I knew someone who smoked marijuana for years, and his cognition was significantly impaired - years later.
I also have a friend on several psych drugs, and I have seen the changes in her cognition. She can't focus. It's like she's scattered. So it isn't always illegal substances affecting cognition and behavior/judgement.
It's got to be bugging you, Deva, but I wonder if you'll just never know the etiology with this woman?

LOL...I will never know unless she says something. I can agree with you totally that I will never know, because while we speak on the phone frequently, I have no idea what she does, if it is psych medication or drugs. Somehow, though, I suspect it is substance abuse of some sort.

My concern is that this irrational behavior is unsafe for the patients, and for nurses working behind her. Here is an example; she is orienting in the Coumadin clinic and I came behind her to relieve the regular nurse for lunch. She had already been there for 1 week. We use a coagucheck machine (similar to the glucometer) and any reading at 3.0 and above needs a blood draw. She told me that the patient in the room had a reading of 5.0, so, IMMEDIATELY, I drew the blood, call messenger service to pick it up and told the provider. Since she was orienting, I let her do the work and watched and made discrete suggestions to encourage organization.

Later on, she came to me at the regular area I work in and told me the doctor was mad, because the labs were not picked up, yet. That sounded strange to me, because even without a call, messengers comes around each half hour for pick up (this was 3 hours later). She then came back and told me the regular nurse for the clinic redid the coagucheck and the reading was a 1.8 (sometimes, that machine does screw up), but that, also, the doctor was angry because she documented in the computer chart the patient's 7 digit medical record number under the INR, the blood was not picked up, the regular nurse had a 1.8, the patient had been there for 4 hours waiting. The doctor REALLY didn't know what to do....does this woman have to go to the ER, be directly admitted, or can he send her home?? It hit me that she probably did not perform the coagucheck properly, but rather than ask me for help, she just told me what she interpeted (if she did at all), and I drew the blood to have it sent based on what she told me. I was only relieving for one hour, so, I had no reason to follow up about the blood being sent down, because she was present when I drew and called, the other nurse returned 20 minutes after I did this.

The things we have to put up with for making a living... :banghead:

pagandeva2000, LPN · Mar 29, 2008

"Cognitive Deficits Associated With Heavy Marijuana Use Appear To Be Reversible" (from NIDA, Vol. 17, No. 1. April 2002)
The take home message is:
Methinks the problem with your associate isn't based on current or past cannabis use, but perhaps abuse of other (read: legal) substances, specifically EtOH. Either that or she has some form of undiagnosed mental illness/depression. Other drugs will fry your wetware, too (specifically MDMA/Ecstasy, Meth, etc.).
As far as the brain goes, cannabis is pretty innocuous.

Thank you for taking the time to share this article with us. :yeah: It must be something else, then for this woman.

leslie :-D · Mar 29, 2008

i know/knew a couple of people that remained brilliant despite habitual use.

others, seemed to be lacking, but these people also drank heavily as well.

truly, it's hard to say.

leslie

tele_nurse · Mar 29, 2008

...If I'm not mistaken, when compared to tobacco, there are 60x the carcinogens in THC...

Published data indicate otherwise. See here from PubMed.

The chemical composition of tobacco smoke has been extensively examined, and the presence of known and suspected carcinogens in such smoke has contributed to the link between tobacco smoking and adverse health effects. The consumption of marijuana through smoking remains a reality and, among youth, seems to be increasing. There have been only limited examinations of marijuana smoke, including for cannabinoid content and for tar generation. There have not been extensive studies of the chemistry of marijuana smoke, especially in direct comparison to tobacco smoke. In this study, a systematic comparison of the smoke composition of both mainstream and sidestream smoke from marijuana and tobacco cigarettes prepared in the same way and consumed under two sets of smoking conditions, was undertaken. This study examined the suite of chemicals routinely analyzed in tobacco smoke. As expected, the results showed qualitative similarities with some quantitative differences. In this study, ammonia was found in mainstream marijuana smoke at levels up to 20-fold greater than that found in tobacco. Hydrogen cyanide, NO, NO x , and some aromatic amines were found in marijuana smoke at concentrations 3-5 times those found in tobacco smoke. Mainstream marijuana smoke contained selected polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) at concentrations lower than those found in mainstream tobacco smoke, while the reverse was the case for sidestream smoke, with PAHs present at higher concentrations in marijuana smoke. The confirmation of the presence, in both mainstream and sidestream smoke of marijuana cigarettes, of known carcinogens and other chemicals implicated in respiratory diseases is important information for public health and communication of the risk related to exposure to such materials.

What is fascinating is that marijuana use is no new trend; nonetheless there is no good body of research that puts it in the category of cocaine, heroin, LSD, etc. in terms of how dangerous it might be. If I recall (and I'll admit my research is not up to date) there's alot of conflicting reports out there.

Yes...a lot of conflicting studies. Sometimes I think it's a matter of people not recognizing the difference between correlation and causation. The fact that cannabis is so heavily politicized doesn't help, either.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that inhaling combusted plant matter is good for you, that's not the point of this thread. Does ingesting cannabis (via either inhaled or oral route) make you stupid? I'll argue that it doesn't. Anecdotal "evidence" aside, someone's gonna have to provide a peer-reviewed study to convince me that it does. In *my* experience, the people that I know who are "slow" and have smoked cannabis for years weren't that bright to begin with (no offense, here) and those who are brilliant don't seem to suffer much from their chronic tokage. If smoking cannabis makes you dumb, someone forgot to give Carl Sagan (among others) the memo.

nickola · Mar 29, 2008

i know/knew a couple of people that remained brilliant despite habitual use.
others, seemed to be lacking, but these people also drank heavily as well.
truly, it's hard to say.
leslie

I have to agree, and I have known many high-functioning & professional people who were pot smokers on a regular basis. The same can be said of ETOH use. I've always thought that ETOH had more long term effects on the organs though. (my personal observation, being a child growing up in the 70's is that- when using- ETOH users get stupid & obnoxious & pot users just mellow out and laugh at everything!!)- I also think there are a lot more chemicals in the pot today than when I was young. I'd like to see pot decriminalized- if not legalized. I can't say ETOH is any better, but since it's so widely used by the politicians, ETOH will never become illegal now- despite all the problems ETOH abusers have/cause, even tho pot has been around as long (maybe longer) than ETOH. I have also known many people who were on antidepressants & anti-anxiety meds that came to work every day- some function normally, some do NOT. The point is, addicts are going to abuse a substance they enjoy whether it is legal or 'socially acceptable' or not. This person the OP is referring to sounds like she may have some underlying emotional issues. I doubt you can blame pot smoking in her youth as a contributing factor to her poor decisions NOW. :twocents:

leslie :-D · Mar 29, 2008

wow...never knew that about carl sagan.

did you see that smile???

he looks....

content.

yeah....

content.

heh.

leslie