London nurses--are you okay?

[babyNP.]

My husband (from Sheffield) are looking at the riots in London, gob-smacked. Anyone in London working in the hospitals on this board or elsewhere in London? I don't know how the shifts work there, if you have evening shifts from 2300-0700 or what have you, but I hope you are all safe!

[DavidFR, BSN, MSN, RN]

I didnt assume I said it was highly likely.

What you actually said was this:

"He was not married, so his four kids are most likely mainained on welfare, like so many others in the UK."

That is a highly judgmental statement. What's your problem with unmarried parents? Haven't we all seen both married and unmarried parents surviving on social (many because they have no choice), and both married and unmarried parents supporting their children through being lucky enough to have work?

[snoopy29]

Wow - I have just come across this post and read a number of the comments with disbelief and a fair degree of outrage. If there was not so much tragedy and loss surrounding these events I would find the image of the machine gun toting British bobby randomly shooting innocent members of the public laughable. Thankyou Skylark for eloquently portraying the facts.

I have been deeply saddened by the senseless criminal acts perpetrated and am very clear that this is not a protest by the opressed but people choosing to behave in a way that is unacceptable and this would be the case wherever it happened in the world.

This post began with an international message of support for UK nurses affected by the rioting. I am grateful for that thought. My support and concern extends to......

My paramedic colleagues who faced stone throwing and petrol bombing and yet time and time again went in, without judgement, to treat those injured.

The hard working people that have had their business and livelihoods destroyed and are now faced with re-building.

The familes and friends of those who have lost loved ones. I have been left humbled by the compassion and dignity they have shown. I will never forget the father of the young asian men killed protecting their community asking for peace and an end to the violence.

Many months will be spent analysing and unpicking the politics, origin and right or wrongness of the events hoepfully to ensure that they never recur but what matters right now is the human cost and that is where my energies and thought are focussed

[skylark, BSN, RN]

What you actually said was this:

"He was not married, so his four kids are most likely mainained on welfare, like so many others in the UK."

That is a highly judgmental statement. What's your problem with unmarried parents? Haven't we all seen both married and unmarried parents surviving on social (many because they have no choice), and both married and unmarried parents supporting their children through being lucky enough to have work?

Well, I havent been to Broadwater Farm in a while, but when I did, nobody there had a job, it was totally welfare culture.

I can't imagine that anyone with enough self-respect and ambition to have a job would want to stay there.

Perhaps I'm out of date with that, maybe you have more updated info.

And raising four children without welfare is an expensive hobby. TO have four kids in the UK you EITHER need to have both parents working in good jobs, OR be reliant on welfare. I don't really believe its possible for low income breadwinners to support four children?

Again, maybe someone can prove me wrong on this?

[skylark, BSN, RN]

Mark Duggan, also known as "Starrish Mark",[/url] was an alleged drug dealer and founding member of North London's "Star Gang", an offshoot of the Tottenham Mandem gang. The Telegraph has cited unnamed police sources claiming that Duggan was a "well known gangster" and a "major player and well known to the police in Tottenham". It has also been reported that Duggan was a nephew of deceased Manchester gangland boss Desmond Noonan during Noonan's second marriage.

Operation Trident had Duggan under surveillance "amid fears" he was planning to avenge the death of his cousin Kelvin Easton, who was stabbed to death outside an East London bar in March 2011. Duggan is reported to have become "increasingly paranoid" as a consequence of his cousin's violent death. The Telegraph claims that Duggan was bound to avenge the death by the "street code" of a gang of which he was allegedly a member.

Duggan's family denounced the allegations against Duggan as "disinformation", claiming that he was "not a gang member and he had no criminal record".

It subsequently emerged that Duggan's girlfriend Semone Wilson had been arrested in June by the Operation Trident after a large quantity of cocaine had allegedly been found at her home. She was questioned on suspicion of possession of drugs with intent to supply and released on police bail until September.

There is nothing here to suggest he was either married, or even lived with his children. Nothing to even suggest they all were from one mother. No mention of a career, or of him as a devoted breadwinner and father.

Certainly this contradicts the image the family presented of a "family man".

So was the media right to talk about "machine-gun toting cops" gunning down an innocent family man?

Police in the UK ONLY carry guns in response to a specific threat or incident, which in this case was a suspected attempt at a revenge murder for a cousin's death.

Only the cops who were there will know what provoked them to fire, if indeed it was them.

Until that information is made public, there seems little point in continuing to speculate.

[DavidFR, BSN, MSN, RN]

Well, I havent been to Broadwater Farm in a while, but when I did, nobody there had a job, it was totally welfare culture.

I can't imagine that anyone with enough self-respect and ambition to have a job would want to stay there.

Perhaps I'm out of date with that, maybe you have more updated info.

And raising four children without welfare is an expensive hobby. TO have four kids in the UK you EITHER need to have both parents working in good jobs, OR be reliant on welfare. I don't really believe its possible for low income breadwinners to support four children?

Again, maybe someone can prove me wrong on this?

None of this addresses my point that you judged him for being unmarried. None of what you say above has anything to do with whether the parents are married or not.

You've made a lot of very valid points, many of which I agree with, but you demean your argument when you judge unmarried parents in this way. Maybe it was clumsy wording, but you came accross as very anti-unmarried parent.

[skylark, BSN, RN]

but you demean your argument when you judge unmarried parents in this way. Maybe it was clumsy wording, but you came accross as very anti-unmarried parent.

Did you see any of Mr Duggans children in any of the family media gatherings?

There is a world of difference between being a single parent and being a sperm donor, who is involved with drug dealing.

He was being watched by police for a reason, and being a dad taking his kids to McDonalds was not the reason.

There are REAL single parents, and there are those who produce children but take no active part on their parenting. Same as with married parents.

PS -

1. I'm a single mom.

2. Keep your judgemental attitude to yourself. Thank you.

[DavidFR, BSN, MSN, RN]

Did you see any of Mr Duggans children in any of the family media gatherings?

There is a world of difference between being a single parent and being a sperm donor, who is involved with drug dealing.

He was being watched by police for a reason, and being a dad taking his kids to McDonalds was not the reason.

There are REAL single parents, and there are those who produce children but take no active part on their parenting. Same as with married parents.

PS -

1. I'm a single mom.

2. Keep your judgemental attitude to yourself. Thank you.

Skylark, it's not my business what your situation is and I certainly won't judge someone I don't know on an internet forum other than by what they say, and what you actually said was this:

"He was not married, so his four kids are most likely mainained on welfare, like so many others in the UK."

I know unmarried parents who don't claim a thing and might take offence at the assumption you appear to be making there.

[Silverdragon102, BSN]

Closing for time out.