London nurses--are you okay?

[babyNP.]

My husband (from Sheffield) are looking at the riots in London, gob-smacked. Anyone in London working in the hospitals on this board or elsewhere in London? I don't know how the shifts work there, if you have evening shifts from 2300-0700 or what have you, but I hope you are all safe!

[misswoosie]

Appalled but not surprised at the riots in the UK and also those who think that because Duggan was a criminal it was OK for the incompetent police to shoot him dead.

There is no evidence so far that any other weapons other than police weapons fired during the incident last week.

tHe bullet that was recovered from a police mans radio was a police bullet. This was the special armed response unit of the Met'

I for one am glad that they do not all carry guns. This reminds me of when they shot dead the wrong guy on the London

Too many of the UK police are corrupt, discriminatory, ignorant, inept and overpaid.

[skylark, BSN, RN]

Pasha31 -

Several things to say.

1 - Cops do not carry machine guns in the UK except at recognised high risk terrorist target sites, such as airports. Where on earth did you find information to suggest that machine guns were present in this incident?

2 - Again, where did you get information to suggest he was a well-liked family man? He was a known dealer, carrying a fake gun and possibly a real one too.

He was not married, so his four kids are most likely mainained on welfare, like so many others in the UK. Have you ever met this man, and if not, what information do you have to form your opinion?

3 - Pasha, have you ever been to Tottenham?

What do you know about the Trident operations there?

Rather than posting some dumb American untrue hype, wouldn't it be more useful and less inflammatory to find out some facts?

And for the original poster -

I'm working in A&E, West London, been put on nights since this started.

In hospital we are safe.

Those at risk are our colleagues in the police and ambulance service. There are not enough stabproof vests to go around. Police are riding in ambulances to protect the crew.

But it is calming down now, no thanks to misinformed and unhelpful people like Pasha31.

[RN1980]

good luck london, you survived the blitz and you will surely survive this.

[XB9S, BSN, MSN, EdD, RN, APN]

An unarmed, well-liked man, father of 4, was needlessly killed by machine gun toting police when they stopped a cab he was in. A large crowd held a vigil in his memory and the crowd got out of control angry because the police are getting away with this criminally wrong murder. Several witnesses to the shooting and independent police crime investigators attest to this unfair, unnecesssary killing. The Prime Minister and authorities are not holding the officers responsible.

UScitizen

And within this post your ignorance of the British police and UK culture is evident.

Police officers carry batons, occasionally tazers, with special permission and training a few officers carry firearms but they do not carry machine guns.

Don't believe everything you read in the press, especially if it's not your own country, or maybe we should also believe the israel press and declare the UK government illegitimate because the majority of UK citizens are repressed by excessive police force.

Try reading the posts by the UK nurses here who are in this country and have a better idea on what has been happening.

[XB9S, BSN, MSN, EdD, RN, APN]

And for the original poster -

I'm working in A&E, West London, been put on nights since this started.

In hospital we are safe.

Those at risk are our colleagues in the police and ambulance service. There are not enough stabproof vests to go around. Police are riding in ambulances to protect the crew.

But it is calming down now, no thanks to misinformed and unhelpful people like Pasha31.

I have nothing but respect for the restraint shown by the police officers during this affair. I am lucky working in a very remote hospital well away from the unrest

Take care during your shifts skylark hope it continues to settle. I notice the news reports that the courts are giving harsh sentences to those convicted.

[skylark, BSN, RN]

I feel the police have a very difficult job here.

Not only are they restricted in numbers, and in arms, but thay are also operating in a litigation culture. Its apparently ok for rioters to attack police, but if a cop lays a single finger on a rioter, they shout assault, and get their friends to video it and post it on youtube.

There is no respect for police or any authority in the UK anymore.

Lately at work we've been starting the shift with the great one-liner from the movei Sister Act, when she is sent to work in an out of control high school . . . .

"Welcome to Sodom and Gomorrah"

[misswoosie]

And within this post your ignorance of the British police and UK culture is evident.

Police officers carry batons, occasionally tazers, with special permission and training a few officers carry firearms but they do not carry machine guns.

Don't believe everything you read in the press, especially if it's not your own country, or maybe we should also believe the israel press and declare the UK government illegitimate because the majority of UK citizens are repressed by excessive police force.

Try reading the posts by the UK nurses here who are in this country and have a better idea on what has been happening.

I haven't seen any posts here that lay out the currently known facts of what happened in the shooting of Duggan.If you can use the internet to find information then it makes little difference where you are.

As for the police tactics for controlling the riots-sounds like they got it wrong AGAIN!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14485592

As for There is no respect for police...... in the UK anymore

Are you surprised?

And if they didn't pay them such ridiculously high salaries compared to other public service workers then maybe there would be more of them on the shop floor-so to speak.

[skylark, BSN, RN]

[/b]

I haven't seen any posts here that lay out the currently known facts of what happened in the shooting of Duggan.If you can use the internet to find information then it makes little difference where you are.

As for the police tactics for controlling the riots-sounds like they got it wrong AGAIN!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14485592

I've already commented on the work of the police in a previous post Strange how eveyone wants to bash them, but nobody can suggest what they should have done better.

The ony sensible comment I've heard so far, (from one of the cops themselves, last night) was that they wished they have been able to use water cannons. With dyed water, bright red. Then they not only restrain the rioters, but also mark them in a way that is clear evidence when they are arrested that they were involved.

But the bottom line is that whatever they do, someone somewhere will think they got it wrong.

[skylark, BSN, RN]

[/b]

And if they didn't pay them such ridiculously high salaries compared to other public service workers then maybe there would be more of them on the shop floor-so to speak.

Most London hospitals have CEOs who earn more than the Prime Minister.

Do you think that is an appropriate salary for those who are destroying the NHS?

Are they ever put in personal danger in the course of their work?

[misswoosie]

I've already commented on the work of the police in a previous post Strange how eveyone wants to bash them, but nobody can suggest what they should have done better.The ony sensible comment I've heard so far, (from one of the cops themselves, last night) was that they wished they have been able to use water cannons. With dyed water, bright red. Then they not only restrain the rioters, but also mark them in a way that is clear evidence when they are arrested that they were involved.

But the bottom line is that whatever they do, someone somewhere will think they got it wrong.

Looting is a criminal act and should have been dealt with using tactics for criminal behaviour.They were using tactics appropriate for public disorder and didn't have enough police on the streets when the looting first started. That's what the police told Mr Cameron according to the BBC link I posted in my last post.

Compare it with the innapropriateness of giving a patient whose 6 hrs post mastectomy paracetamol instead of an opiate.

Do you know that 3 men in Birmingham were deliberately mowed down by a car whilst trying to protect their shops from looting?

[misswoosie]

Most London hospitals have CEOs who earn more than the Prime Minister.

Do you think that is an appropriate salary for those who are destroying the NHS?

Are they ever put in personal danger in the course of their work?

The individual hospitals decide how much to pay the CEO as most of them have independent trust status. It's not like the police service where the government dictates salaries.

CEOs aren't put in personal danger in the course of their work, but then most policemen don't have to manage a budget, thousands of staff , meet government targets etc etc.

Being put in danger isn't the only criteria for deciding on how much someone is worth.

Interseting that you chose a CEO, who probably has a Masters degree , rather than compare police salaries with people with a more similar educational level, such as nurses.

[skylark, BSN, RN]

Yes, I am aware of the incident in Birmingham. Its a city dear to my heart as I lived there for many years.

I'm not sure what the police could have done to prevent a hit and run though.

You talk about tactics for criminal behavior, but that is exactly what the police are not allowed to do. Even touching a rioter is an assault. You have to remember that the law is messed up in the Uk, and that give criminals a sense of being unstoppable, and above the law, as these incidents show only too clearly.

This would not have happened in countries that police aggresively. I can think of a few where armed police would have fired and then asked questions later.

But without being allowed to be aggressive, or even be armed, UK police are fighting an impossible battle against a society that has lost its morals.