I would really love u guys opinions on what has just happened to me to find out if there's anything I can do about it or if it's normal. I'll start from the beginning, I graduated from a BSN program in 2009 and after 3 mths of searchingI finally got a position in a LTC facility on the vent unit. It definitely wasn't my first choice, but I was soo grateful to have a job that I took it. I worked there until I got a call from my dream hospital in November for an interview. I almost fell out of my chair when they actually offered me the job in the IMC!! I didn't care that it was Sat and Sun only, I was sooo excited to work in a "real Hospital". I changed my status to prn at the LTC I started on the unit in early Dec, they gave me 10wks for orientation and assigned 2 preceptors to me since I worked only weekends. On my first day, my preceptor was pulled to another unit so i got paired with another nurse, this happened for the next 3 shifts..in all I've worked 2 shifts with one preceptor and 1 shift with another, every other time I worked i was paired with a random nurse. Even one of my main preceptors wasn't happy about this, she felt my orientaion lacked consistence and said she would talk to the unit mngr about so they could change my schedule. I was very frustrated everytim i had a new a new person coz I felt like I was starting over all the time and not really learning as I should and I had actually planned to go speak to one of the educators myself next about it......So imagine my surprise when the unit manager( who's new as of Jan, 1st and whom I met once in passing) and the unit director( whom I never met) called me at 1645 today to tell me that they met with both my preceptors and the educator for the IMC( who I only met in general orientation) and they don't feel that i'm progressing as I should, that their IMC is not the right fit for me and basically I was given the choice to either resign or be terminated! Needless to say I was dumbfounded! this came completely out of left field for me and I didn't know what to say! I had the crappiest orientation so far, i wasn't too vocal about it because i didn't to sound needy or whiny and they're letting ME go??? imo, they don't have any basis to assess my performance, none of them worked with me long enough to do that, i don't feel i was given a fair chance at learning my way around the unit, talk less of learning the job. I sooo upset about this I don't know what to do!! I also don't feel this should have been discussed over the phone, I felt so ambushed!! They didn't even give me the option of changing units or anything! I've already cried my eyes out over this and I almost wished i had done smthg wrong, screwed up somehow on the unit so at least i would have smthg to blame it on...a reason u know..
well thanks for letting me vent, srry if it's too long, I just had to get it out..
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
don't you at some point, though, make it a point to actually communicate with your orientee, give her some feedback, ask for her concerns, etc.? do you drop fat man or little boy on her out of the blue? nah, i don't think you'd do that, ruby. i'm sure you are a very good preceptor and a decent person and would not surprise sink someone, rather, you'd give her a chance to know how she's messing up and help her fix it. right?
i am not saying this applies to the op at all, but i do know that it's possible to have a meeting with an orientee every week, tell them exactly how they're messing up, come up with a plan for improvement, even make them sign it -- and they still insist they've been totally blindsided by their termination. i'm convinced that some of them even *believe* they were doing well right up until they were fired, or that their termination came without warning.
I have told some dicky employers in the past what I thought of them AND have told new employers exactly what happened (when they asked), and I haven't had problems getting work.
Unless you want to go back to that facility or really need a reference just stay professional and polite.
But heck, I don't care what anyone says, there comes a time when you just have to tell people to their face what you are REALLY thinking - and it is really, truly liberating, I can tell you!
However the job situation in the US may not let you do that, so as someone else said just write a professional letter, say what you need to say in a meeting, then move on to a better life! They will truly have forgotten all about you when you walk out the door in 5 minutes, so don't even worry about them I say.
You can sometimes get by with saying what you really think, it just should always be said courteously, as nicely as possible because you really don't know what the future holds. And maybe it's better to say it than write it? Maybe.
i am not saying this applies to the op at all, but i do know that it's possible to have a meeting with an orientee every week, tell them exactly how they're messing up, come up with a plan for improvement, even make them sign it -- and they still insist they've been totally blindsided by their termination. i'm convinced that some of them even *believe* they were doing well right up until they were fired, or that their termination came without warning.
i misunderstood. sorry. i just figured you were responding to the op or discussing her post.
also, i am troubled that you and the preceptors talk to each other, yet you make no mention in your other post that you talk with the orientee. honestly, i think it's vital to find a few minutes 2 or 3 times per week to talk to the orientee and get it straight from the horse's mouth what is going on with her.
also, if the preceptor has given you a bad report, do you always believe her? do you check this out for yourself or verify it with other staff? or talk to the orientee specifically about the preceptor's concerns?
as for being blindsided, this happened to me once, although not during orientation. i'd been there several years when a pt's family complained. when discussing this complaint, several other matters came up that had absolutely never been presented to me. never.
one complaint from a nurse i was charging - i didn't help her when she was busy. well, any time, and i do mean any time i asked this particular nurse if i could assist her with anything - do some ivpb's, get supplies to restock her med or treatment carts, give her a dinner or rest break, check vs, do an accucheck, and the list goes on - she never accepted. and i do mean never - as if she needed to prove her competence.
she was most easily flustered, she'd start yelling and throwing things and slamming charts and med drawers when somebody went south. we'd all rush to help her (take over, really, as she was so panicky and usually barely functioning at that point).
but i made it a point to round q 1 hr and ask each nurse what i could do for her - except when i had to be busy with next shift staffing or resolving some c/o from families, helping a doc with dressings, labs, whatever, calling pharmacy or cs for stuff we needed asap, etc.
no one asked if i had need of help, no one made sure i got breaks when i worked the floor and definitely not when i was charge - but that was ok, as i was part-time and just figured i'd rest when i was done with my shift and on my days off. i didn't even leave, to my everlasting regret, when my loved one was taken to the er. i was in touch by phone only. ah, well, such is life. foolish me. but she was ok.
anyway, the boss said i should anticipate this nurse's needs -what did she think i'd been doing? i explained how she always turned me down, how she still got her breaks, how she panicked and fritzed out, how she wasn't charting - yes, you read that right. she and some of the other nurses didn't chart and didn't make sure the aides charted vs, accuchecks, i&o's. i always wondered why i was always staying over, when i occasionally worked the floor, while they always got their breaks and also left on time. little did i know at the time.
well, anyway, i was supposed to force her to accept my help and also read her mind. no, i wasn't fired, but i was taken aback. no one had spoken to me about this nurse or a couple of other things that were brought up. so blindsiding definitely does happen.
Not saying it applies to the OP, but it is absolutely true that you can typically tell within a couple of weeks if someone is going to "get it" or not. In the past, our unit's informal policy was to extend orientations, and then have evaluations every 3 months for a year after orientation for those newbies who struggled. Inevitably this ended with firing after a year. Now, if at the end of orientation (or sometimes during in certain situations) if the orientee is really struggling, beyond what you would expect in a newbie, we let them go rather than continue to try to support, educate, grow them. The economy and market are such that we have multiple options, and don't need to hold someone's hand for a 6 month or longer orientation. We have people banging down our door for a job; if one person isn't a great fit, someone else will be.
Let's be honest. You've all experienced the orientee who just doesn't fit *and* doesn't get it. They don't get it in orientation, and they don't get it in two years. I'm grateful that our unit now weeds these people out early, as opposed to helping them limp along, with everyone else having to pick up their slack for a year or more (and I'm not talking about general newbies, but those who struggle so much that even after a year they can't hold their own. Their too busy to take an admit, every shift they need someone to help them finish their med pass, they can't seem to remember what you tell them in regards to policies, procedures, and don't ever look it up, etc).
Again, not necessarily referring to the OP. We have a great orientation on our floor, with a week of "book learnin'" and then 5 weeks minimum of being with one or two preceptors (two for sure, if you're going to nights, as you have to start on days), and another two weeks of being on the floor but not counting in staffing so that everyone has a lighter load and is more available to help. It sounds like that absolutely was not the OP's experience.
To the OP, at least you've had most of one orientation. Now, when you get your next job, you aren't starting out as green as the other new RNs. Do an honest assessment of yourself: what did you do well during orientation, what areas did you need to work on, and then make the best of your time with your next orientation at your next job. Good luck!
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
i misunderstood. sorry. i just figured you were responding to the op or discussing her post.
also, i am troubled that you and the preceptors talk to each other, yet you make no mention in your other post that you talk with the orientee. honestly, i think it's vital to find a few minutes 2 or 3 times per week to talk to the orientee and get it straight from the horse's mouth what is going on with her.
if i haven't crossed paths with my orientee for weeks, i will confer with other preceptors and with the people who have followed her regularly. (they often find things that the preceptor misses.) if it's an orientee i feel comfortable doing so, i'll call her and talk to her but i don't call people in on their days off to ask them how they're doing.
anything good i'm told about my orientee, i'll accept as the truth. if it's bad, i'll want her side of it, the charge nurse's and anyone else's who may have some input. often if you ask around, the story isn't as bad as it originally sounded! people will exaggerate in order to tell a good story.
Not saying it applies to the OP, but it is absolutely true that you can typically tell within a couple of weeks if someone is going to "get it" or not. In the past, our unit's informal policy was to extend orientations, and then have evaluations every 3 months for a year after orientation for those newbies who struggled. Inevitably this ended with firing after a year. Now, if at the end of orientation (or sometimes during in certain situations) if the orientee is really struggling, beyond what you would expect in a newbie, we let them go rather than continue to try to support, educate, grow them. The economy and market are such that we have multiple options, and don't need to hold someone's hand for a 6 month or longer orientation. We have people banging down our door for a job; if one person isn't a great fit, someone else will be.
Let's be honest. You've all experienced the orientee who just doesn't fit *and* doesn't get it. They don't get it in orientation, and they don't get it in two years. I'm grateful that our unit now weeds these people out early, as opposed to helping them limp along, with everyone else having to pick up their slack for a year or more (and I'm not talking about general newbies, but those who struggle so much that even after a year they can't hold their own. Their too busy to take an admit, every shift they need someone to help them finish their med pass, they can't seem to remember what you tell them in regards to policies, procedures, and don't ever look it up, etc).
Again, not necessarily referring to the OP. We have a great orientation on our floor, with a week of "book learnin'" and then 5 weeks minimum of being with one or two preceptors (two for sure, if you're going to nights, as you have to start on days), and another two weeks of being on the floor but not counting in staffing so that everyone has a lighter load and is more available to help. It sounds like that absolutely was not the OP's experience.
To the OP, at least you've had most of one orientation. Now, when you get your next job, you aren't starting out as green as the other new RNs. Do an honest assessment of yourself: what did you do well during orientation, what areas did you need to work on, and then make the best of your time with your next orientation at your next job. Good luck!
I don't know why, but I find this point of view to be very cold-blooded.
I understand the logic and I understand the bottom-line-business point of view, but I would absolutely hate working under a manager who looks at me as a product to be tossed if I don't perform, versus a human with a family that might be depending on me.
I guess why I feel this way is that as a nurse, I am to take my job personally, my patient's care personally, my co-worker's opinions of me personally, the doctor's needs personally, and my dedication to my hospital/clinic/workspace personally, but not take it personally when my manager wants to give me the boot because I didn't instantly measure up, or something happened.
If a person wasn't "getting it," why not help them? If not in that particular area, then help get them transferred into an area they would succeed? Why just coldly toss them into the dust bin?
Why waste resources, why frustrate and alienate the rest of your staff when you have someone who is NOT cutting it? Who cannot hold their own? Who cannot practice safely, because one year into their practice they still can't manage their time well enough to assess all of their patients within a decent time period? Who constantly depend upon others to complete their work (so we have to do our own *and* a portion of theirs, too). Whom you never can depend upon to take up some extra work when there is a code? Whose judgement is so lacking you can never trust it? Why endanger your patients?
I'm sorry, it's simply straight up denial to think that there are no bad nurses. Occasionally you run into nurses who are not going to be able to practice in a reasonable manner. I don't want to hold these nurses hands for years, and finally they are fired *after* something bad happens. Or after other, good, nurses have quit because they are tired of carrying their own work load plus the workload of those who can't make it. Better for everyone involved (including the orientee) to get rid of them sooner than later. I don't want to work on a unit with utterly incompetent nurses.
I have no obligation to help them out beyond reason. We all know there is a difference between incompetent and someone who just needs a little time and experience. I'm not talking about the latter, whom I'm happy to mentor and assist. I'm talking about the former. Again, I'm not talking about the op, either. I have no idea about her abilities, but her orientation sounded less than adequate.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
i don't know why, but i find this point of view to be very cold-blooded.
i understand the logic and i understand the bottom-line-business point of view, but i would absolutely hate working under a manager who looks at me as a product to be tossed if i don't perform, versus a human with a family that might be depending on me.
i guess why i feel this way is that as a nurse, i am to take my job personally, my patient's care personally, my co-worker's opinions of me personally, the doctor's needs personally, and my dedication to my hospital/clinic/workspace personally, but not take it personally when my manager wants to give me the boot because i didn't instantly measure up, or something happened.
if a person wasn't "getting it," why not help them? if not in that particular area, then help get them transferred into an area they would succeed? why just coldly toss them into the dust bin?
what happened to "team?"
a team succeeds or fails based on the quality of teamwork. it's only as strong as it's weakest member. if you aren't fitting into the team, for whatever reason, you're dragging the whole team down.
whether or not you take it personally, it's really not personal. it takes thousands of dollars to orient a new employee, and sometimes it just doesn't work out no matter how much help you give them.
I can totally empathize, I recently started my orientation on a incredibly busy tele (70 plus ) floor.. aafter a few weeks it was obvious that my preceptor and I werent a good fit .... I went to my unit director
...luckily I have been given a new preceptor who is excellent and is training me correctly, but I am 7 weeks into orientation... and I am basically starting from ground zero ... I am terrified that I wont be up to speed in the next 3 weeks they have allotted and ready to carry 5-6 patients.... I am sorry you had this happen to you, I know how hard the new grad job situation is.. i wish you the best of luck
I can totally empathize, I recently started my orientation on a incredibly busy tele (70 plus ) floor.. aafter a few weeks it was obvious that my preceptor and I werent a good fit .... I went to my unit director
...luckily I have been given a new preceptor who is excellent and is training me correctly, but I am 7 weeks into orientation... and I am basically starting from ground zero ... I am terrified that I wont be up to speed in the next 3 weeks they have allotted and ready to carry 5-6 patients.... I am sorry you had this happen to you, I know how hard the new grad job situation is.. i wish you the best of luck
I would think they would give you more time since your preceptor was changed. It was good that your manager listened to you and was willing to pair you with someone else. Sometimes learning and teaching styles are such that one preceptor is better with someone than another.
I do agree though that sometimes no matter how many preceptors sometimes things aren't going to work. I hope to find employment someplace that will treat me as a new RN not an LPN with an RN degree. What I mean by that, I hope I find an employer that realizes that I might actually need help with the transition. Now that I know what to look for myself, I can actually help in that regard.
Some of the posts here remind me of a sad reality: Nurses do eat their young.
I cannot imagine another profession expecting everyone to perform like a seasoned practitioner after only a few weeks of often inadequate orientation! And then they're suddenly fired (terminated, forced to resign, whatever), frequently without any explanation, no paperwork and no warning at all. This just does wonders for the new, inexperienced beginner's self-confidence.
Maybe that's why many don't take us seriously as professionals?! Are medical interns canned during their first few months of practice when they know little because they lack experience?! Of course not. Only nurses are, by their own.
Ruby Vee, BSN
17 Articles; 14,051 Posts
i am not saying this applies to the op at all, but i do know that it's possible to have a meeting with an orientee every week, tell them exactly how they're messing up, come up with a plan for improvement, even make them sign it -- and they still insist they've been totally blindsided by their termination. i'm convinced that some of them even *believe* they were doing well right up until they were fired, or that their termination came without warning.