legal blood alcohol

Specialties Emergency

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what is the procedure for obtaining a consent for a legal blood alcohol level for instance if a patient were to come to the ER after an MVC and admitted to ETOH and Xanax use prior to the wreck and police brought in kit asked patient to consent or they would have to obtain a court order pt agrees to consent to blood work is it legal to ask a patient to consent/sign their name to the form if they are intoxicated

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Specializes in ER, ICU.

Your employer should have a policy for this type of procedure. If they don't, ask for one to be created. Here in CO there are two types of blood draws, voluntary and involuntary. The police have the criteria and the consent form should be in their kit. Just be sure to clean their arm with water, not alcohol (this is about the only way to screw it up). They are the ones that consent the patient, you are just the phlebotomist. Many people are uncomfortable doing this because you can get a subpoena. I'm always happy to participate in the nailing of a DUI but I've never had to go to court (I've done hundreds of these). In CO if you refuse a blood draw you automatically lose your license. If the patient is unable or unwilling to decide, the cops just call it a refusal. There are conditions under which the patient may not refuse, say in serious bodily harm. This whole procedure is compleyely separate from their medical treatment.

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Your employer should have a policy for this type of procedure. If they don't, ask for one to be created. Here in CO there are two types of blood draws, voluntary and involuntary. The police have the criteria and the consent form should be in their kit. Just be sure to clean their arm with water, not alcohol (this is about the only way to screw it up). They are the ones that consent the patient, you are just the phlebotomist. Many people are uncomfortable doing this because you can get a subpoena. I'm always happy to participate in the nailing of a DUI but I've never had to go to court (I've done hundreds of these). In CO if you refuse a blood draw you automatically lose your license. If the patient is unable or unwilling to decide, the cops just call it a refusal. There are conditions under which the patient may not refuse, say in serious bodily harm. This whole procedure is compleyely separate from their medical treatment.

I THINK the op's point is, is the consult legal if the patient is drunk.

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Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

Each state has their own rules and your facility should have a policy on this.

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Specializes in EMS, ED, Trauma, CEN, CPEN, TCRN.

In Virginia, if patients refuse a legal blood draw, it's another charge against them. Most of them consent, and yes, they do sign a consent form to the legal blood draw in our ED, even while intoxicated. If they don't sign it, we don't draw blood. Our law enforcement peeps bring in their own kit; we just always have to make sure it's not expired, because sometimes they have those things in their vehicles for a long time before they use them!

I wondered about the validity of consenting while intoxicated as well, but I figure if they're too drunk to manage a pen, they're usually brought in medically (as in, too drunk for jail).

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Specializes in PACU, ED.
is it legal to ask a patient to consent/sign their name to the form if they are intoxicated

Interesting question, and it's one I'm sure the lawyers hashed out long ago. I would say it must be legal or else we'd see commercials with lawyers saying they're the best at getting you off your DUI for signing consent while intoxicated.

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thanks for the feedback! yes, i was asking about the consent not the actual blood draw procedure! I just know that with any other consent we always make sure that the patient is awake alert oriented and has not has any narcotic pain medication...and it just makes me feel a little umcomfortable to have someone sign a consent if they have had ANY mind altering substances... and then again I take it that since it is a legal blood alcohol 9/10 they are expected to have had some type of alcohol intake...i dont know ...our hospital had the consent forms not the police I just wish the police would totally handle that part

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Here, I can request a test of blood, breath, or urine, and I can request another if it suits my fancy. The arrestee can also request an additional test at his/her own expense.

Refusing the tests simply equate to another charge and more consequences for the arrestee. I really don't care if they submit to a test or not because it essentially is a homerun for me and my case, plus they lose their license for a longer period of time.

I've even seen them call their lawyer and ask if they should take the test or refuse, knowing they're drunk, and the typical lawyer reply is something like, "you're on your own with this one."

If someone ever comes in with a paper from a judge/magistrate/etc. saying you've got to draw blood then you've got to draw blood.

Interestingly, some states out west are now training select officers to draw the blood and giving them the ability to use force to obtain it if necessary, i.e. restrain the person and take it as opposed to a breath sample.

An intoxicated person's statement is a credible and lawful statement. Think about it. They're being punished for an action they committed while intoxicated (impaired thinking) so the courts realize it's not like they're insane and don't know wrong from right.

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Specializes in Hospice, LTC, Rehab, Home Health.

I could be mistaken and someone please give the proper information if I am, but I am reasonably sure the purpose for the consents we obtain for the things we do are to cover Us and the Employer from being sued for assault etc if the person comes back later and is unhappy for some reason. Therefore, for those to be legal for that purpose the person cannot be able to say they were "drugged" etc. and didn't know what they were agreeing to.

In the OP's situation this is not the case, in most states part of holding a driver's license is the implicit consent to drug/alcohol testing if there is reasonable cause to suspect being under the influence. Hence, the additional charge if you refuse to submit to the test.

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Specializes in Emergency.

A patient can refuse medical treatment from me all they want. But if the police are bringing a suspect for legal draw we generally get consent in one of two ways. The person has either refused a breath test and is agreeing to a blood draw. Or more often they are refusing all chemical testing and the officers are getting a search warrant. Some of these fellows can be very verbal and belligerent in there refusals and fight and kick, but as I try to explain to them Im just trying to do my job and aside to that do you really want an disorderly conduct in a health care facility care added as well.

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My dad is an attorney and I read the OP's question aloud to him. He said that an informed consent is not valid if the patient is intoxicated. If the patient does in fact sign the consent, it becomes invalid once the blood is drawn and the blood indicates a blood alcohol level above legal limits. He also said that the blood drawn when the patient signed the consent drunk cannot be used against the client in court. When the patient is no longer intoxicated the consent can be re-presented to the patient. Hope this helps :) :redpinkhe

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Specializes in EMS, ED, Trauma, CEN, CPEN, TCRN.

I'm not sure if that holds true in Virginia -- otherwise we wouldn't be doing legal blood draws for our law enforcement peeps, and people are convicted based on the BALs. I'm going to have to look at our consent form and see what it says -- I'm thinking it must address the issue. It would be a silly policy to only allow drunk people to consent to a legal blood draw once they're sober. Makes zero sense.

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