Kentucky Board KARE

DuckyGirl06 said:

General question:

How would you all feel about returning to the same place of employment after everything that has happened? My employer wants me to stay with them in a non-bedside role since I have been compliant and truthful with everything. I have been there for 7 years and would like to stay, but I'm terrified of people talking about me. I have spoken to coworkers who say that yes, rumors are going around. I know I shouldn't care, but I am embarrassed. 

What are your alls thoughts? 

I'd definitely stay.  I'm at the same job and it makes things easier.  In my case they know I don't have a substance use disorder instead of me trying to convince people who don't know me that I don't.  In my opinion just do your job and keep your personal life outside of work. 

DuckyGirl06 said:

General question:

How would you all feel about returning to the same place of employment after everything that has happened? My employer wants me to stay with them in a non-bedside role since I have been compliant and truthful with everything. I have been there for 7 years and would like to stay, but I'm terrified of people talking about me. I have spoken to coworkers who say that yes, rumors are going around. I know I shouldn't care, but I am embarrassed. 

What are your alls thoughts? 

If there is one thing I have learned from my recovery and working an actual program/12 steps then who cares if they do talk. Only you, your sponsor, and God know your heart and your truth. Our past is not a testament to who we are today. I busted my butt to be where I am today, as I am sure you have as well. If they see that, recognize that, then they should commend that. I don't know your situation, but for me, I was a raging IV meth user who still tried to practice medicine until it caught up with me. Now, I am almost 2 years clean, in KARE without any issues, reinstated, and have a great support system. Getting clean is the hardest thing I had to do. Now, people just see my determination and all the work I put in. If you haven't worked an actual program, I recommend it. It has made me see life and situations from a whole new perspective. stay with your company of 7 years. they understand you, support you, and will go to bat for you if ever needed. It is hard to find companies who want to deal with licensure issues or past disciplinary action. 

NurseJackie69 said:

Stay for sure. First the employer sees your changes day by day, sees how well you are doing day by day, and when it's time to return to nursing, it's almost automatic that you have a job. Getting a job returning to nursing is difficult and extremely stressful as you try to get a job at a new place that doesn't know you. Nurses sometimes spend a year trying to find a job. Staying and working there is huge for this reason but there is even a bigger one.

2nd Reason. It's monumental for YOUR recovery. Basic recovery principle is letting SHAME go. It's OK to have some guilt that will eventually go away, but Shame equals disaster and shame is also tied to it's first cousin....narcissistic behavior. You want to be at a point in your recovery where internally, within your deep inner core, you deep down don't really care what people think of you. It's fine to care a little, but you want to be at a place where shame has left the building and internally, YOU know that each and everyday, you are doing the right thing. For nurses that still hold onto to deep shame, it's a disaster regarding relapse risk. In the subconscious, if we carry so much shame that it devastates us regarding what people think about us, it kind of swings to a narcissistic element that the nurse has. 

I would stay. I would wear my recovery across my chest and share my story freely and have no shame. Is this hard to do? Will it be a tough transition for you? Heck yes it will. It's not easy. It's accomplished with the work we put into recovery and not having secrets and scheming and on constant "guard" about "somebody finding out" about my past. GET your past OUT in the open and share your story. This CRIPPLES shame and it's actually far more beneficial from a recovery perspective.

I would stay 100 percent and consider that a golden opportunity. Just my opinion though. From a recovery perspective, you stated that you are "terrified of people talking about you and rumors are going around." I don't mean to be offensive, but am being straight up with you from a recovery standpoint.....you being "terrified of people talking about you" is overwhelmingly likely at it's inner psychological core root, one of the major reasons you used to begin with. Your work in recovery needs to be focused on "why you are so terrified about what people say" or "what the rumors are." That'd concerning and actually, not a good sign regarding recovery progression. With work put in, you will get there. You want to get to a place internally where it rolls completely off of your shoulder when or if you hear that someone has "talked bad about you." Yoi want to be at a place where you can openly share in the nurse break room about your past and it raising your heart rate when you do by only 3 beats per minute instead of 50 beats per minute. That's the sweet spot. That's where your work needs to be places regarding recovery.

Severe worrying about what others think of you equals leading to secrets and deceit, and secrets and deceit can quickly lead to relapse, and this is not an opinion, that is out of any basic recovery and addiction textbook.

^^^^^^^THIS!! DITTO!! PERFECTLY SAID!!

DuckyGirl06 said:

General question:

How would you all feel about returning to the same place of employment after everything that has happened? My employer wants me to stay with them in a non-bedside role since I have been compliant and truthful with everything. I have been there for 7 years and would like to stay, but I'm terrified of people talking about me. I have spoken to coworkers who say that yes, rumors are going around. I know I shouldn't care, but I am embarrassed. 

What are your alls thoughts? 

Thanks guys. I definitely want to stay, just feel embarrassed. I had a call with my manager today and she said "now you know people will be talking; how are you planning to deal with that?” Trying to stay positive and act like it doesn't bother me but it's difficult in the beginning. 
At the end of the day, I know my story and I'm happy to share it with anyone. I know the work I've put in and these people who talk don't pay my bills. 

DuckyGirl06 said:

Thanks guys. I definitely want to stay, just feel embarrassed. I had a call with my manager today and she said "now you know people will be talking; how are you planning to deal with that?” Trying to stay positive and act like it doesn't bother me but it's difficult in the beginning. 
At the end of the day, I know my story and I'm happy to share it with anyone. I know the work I've put in and these people who talk don't pay my bills. 

Great for you! You got this. It will be tough for you to transition from letting that embarrassment go and turning it over. It's a wonderful exercise though because once you get through this, the future first time meeting someone 3 years from now or 5 or 10 will be a sinch for you. Also, your case manager asked the right question and is making sure you are up for the task. You are going to be ALARMED at how many people support you and encourage you. It will be over 90 percent (mark that down). In 6 months your shame and embarrassment will be gone and you will be rock solid. Props to you on your recovery my friend!

DuckyGirl06 said:

Thanks guys. I definitely want to stay, just feel embarrassed. I had a call with my manager today and she said "now you know people will be talking; how are you planning to deal with that?” Trying to stay positive and act like it doesn't bother me but it's difficult in the beginning. 
At the end of the day, I know my story and I'm happy to share it with anyone. I know the work I've put in and these people who talk don't pay my bills. 

Girl forget them people like u said they don't pay your bills. Return like nothing happen 🤣

DuckyGirl06 said:

General question:

How would you all feel about returning to the same place of employment after everything that has happened? My employer wants me to stay with them in a non-bedside role since I have been compliant and truthful with everything. I have been there for 7 years and would like to stay, but I'm terrified of people talking about me. I have spoken to coworkers who say that yes, rumors are going around. I know I shouldn't care, but I am embarrassed. 

What are your alls thoughts? 

I agree with all the above.  It took me 2 years to find an employer willing to give me a second chance.

One more tip from a recovery perspective for those undergoing shame or embarrassment.  Remember, guilt is OK.  That's your short term conscience and higher power speaking to you which is an attempt to convict your character, so guilt or feeling bad about what we did is absolutely a good thing......In The Short Term.  But, once we forgive ourselves and know that we are forgiven by our Higher Power (mine is God), you let the guilt go.  Time to move on.  But, the danger some have is SHAME.  Guilt, if you don't let it go, can quickly turn to shame.  Some people don't even need to have guilt in the equation, yet they still can have Shame.  Shame is deadly because Shame is more than "feeling bad" for the behavior you did or the act you did.  Shame gets into how you literally feel about your Entire Self, your whole person, you entire mind and soul, and Shame is a monster!

Important Tip- NEVER EXPECT ANYTHING from other people regarding your recovery.  That means, you also do not expect a GOOD response or a BAD response.  This gets into 12 step stuff and making Amends not just to others, but also to yourself.  When you make amends, you can't have ANY expectation from the person or persons you are making amends to.  When you make an Amends to a person, that person may tell you to F off.  Another person may tell you that you are forgiven and they love you.  Another person may set somewhere in the middle.  With each of those 3 responses above, you have to get to a point where ALL 3 feel the same to you (the good and the bad).  Your work stops when you made the Amends and from that point, everything else is Turned Over and Out of Your Hands.  You let it go.  You can't get bent out of shape if someone tells you to F off and says they don't forgive you.  You also can't be overjoyed with glee and beating your chest if someone tells you they forgive you and love you.  It's OK to be Grateful if someone tells you they forgive you and love you, but that's it, have gratitude and nothing else because Pride can quickly sneak in.  If the person tells you to F off and they don't forgive you, same thing, if you hold onto it, Anger and Resentment sneaks in.  

The above paragraph is exactly the same when we are dealing with our recovery in the workplace-among our peers and our openness about our background and where we are at in the present.  Do NOT have ANY expectations when you tell others about your background.  The important thing is to share it openly.  Obviously, you don't do that within 2 minutes of meeting a new person, but after a time, your past or questions will be asked and it's important for you to share when the appropriate moment comes.  The second thing is, you have ZERO expectations and are NOT hurt emotionally if that person thinks you are "a monster."  You also are not completely filled with "mania" or "pride" if that person gives you a gigantic hug and is 100% supportive.  That would feel good and it's OK to be grateful and it's nice to know you don't have an "enemy" in the workplace, but you can't have expectations "good" or "bad" about other people when you share your background.  Sharing your background and Not having expectations of the other person are the TWO critical things of importance and the one that is NOT important is the other person's response.  New nurses in recovery often worry far more about the "other person's response" or "whether the nurses are talking about me" and this is not important at all.  The two important parts of the equation are that you share and you have zero expectations.

NEVER get into the "game" of the following scenario.................. "I told a nurse my background and she became cold and distant and I think she hates me, so I figure.....if she doesn't like me or doesn't support me, then that is her problem and she's probably mixed up and a bad person."  The above scenario needs to END when you share your background.  Everything else is turned over.  You do NOT try to "get into the head" of why, who, how, or when, or why the other nurse thinks or feels bad about you.  Do NOT go there.  It's not your call.  It's also the other nurses right to like you or not like you.  That's her call, not your call, and you don't try to get into the headspace of other humans if they are not supportive of you or don't like you when you share with them.  That's dangerous and unhealthy.  Don't go there.  They actually have a right to not like you and you have to be OK with that.  They have a right to be supportive of you and like you and you have to be OK with that.  Same applies to the opposite............  If a nurse is overly supportive of you after you share your background, do NOT get into the Headspace of "why" that nurse is so supportive and don't think to yourself, "this nurse is a great person because she supports me."  Whether the nurse is a great person or not is NOT your call.  You let that go.  She is actually NOT automatically "good" because she supports you and the nurse that doesn't support you is NOT automatically "bad."  Whether either one is "good or bad" is completely IRRELVANT to your recovery, so when a nurse supports you after you share or is very distant and non supportive after you share, your work stops right there.  Do not start placing a LABEL on either of them or get into the "why" of their disgust or incredible support.

Hope the above helps.  My point is....have no expectations of ANYONE's response when you share your background and where you are at currently in recovery. You are NOT owed anything.  Do not "make the call" of whether another person is "good or bad" based on whether or not they support you or don't support you.  Your WORK ends from the moment you share, and ANY and ALL responses made to you by the person you share with needs to roll right off of your chest (both the bad and good).  All of this is DIFFICULT.  It's tough to get to this point.  That's why recovery is WORK and it's hard work, but you can and will get there and when you get to this point, you have Kicked Shame in the A**.  This is how you defeat Shame and Embarrassment. 

NurseJackie69 said:

That's a meaningful detail that changes everything.....your lawyer needs to know that you didn't report or admit to diversion. That can change lots of things. If she or he was under the impression that you already admitted to diversion, make sure to very quickly inform the attorney this wasn't what happened.

I just did my PSYCH/SUD eval in which I was informed my precious employer never reported me.  Why would my manager tell me to report but then not report me herself? There actually was no straight accusation of diversion  and there is no proof of it either (UDS).

in addition, I "celebrated" a new job and took a CBD gummy before bed the night before my eval. Not even thinking I would need to pee in a cup the next day (or that cbd can make you test positive for thc. I'm so frustrated and the shame of all this (in the previous post) makes me want to vomit and hide. 
the ONLY thing going for me is that the evaluator said he thinks I'm safe for patient care.  Is there a way I can walk away from all this with an unencumbered license?  

SMBnurse said:

I just did my PSYCH/SUD eval in which I was informed my precious employer never reported me.  Why would my manager tell me to report but then not report me herself? There actually was no straight accusation of diversion  and there is no proof of it either (UDS).

in addition, I "celebrated" a new job and took a CBD gummy before bed the night before my eval. Not even thinking I would need to pee in a cup the next day (or that cbd can make you test positive for thc. I'm so frustrated and the shame of all this (in the previous post) makes me want to vomit and hide. 
the ONLY thing going for me is that the evaluator said he thinks I'm safe for patient care.  Is there a way I can walk away from all this with an unencumbered license?  

I've read/heard a few times thar there was a threat to be report that never happened. I'd never advise self reporting unless there's a legal charge you can't win. 

Healer555 said:

I've read/heard a few times thar there was a threat to be report that never happened. I'd never advise self reporting unless there's a legal charge you can't win. 

From this point on.....IF you have never admitted diversion to anyone including the evaluator and your only positive is weed, there's a decent chance you get little monitoring or no mo itorong if you can prove CBD or maybe 1 year. You need to speak to the SUD evaluator and literally ask what he or she will recommend to the BON. Your case is tough and much truly will depend on what the evaluator recommends since you have already had the eval.

I recommend NEVER EVER self reporting UNLESS....you were caught diverting at work or you know you have been diverting and the pixis pulls are way out of whack and your employer has mentioned it or questioned you. In these cases, nurses hardly ever win and getting into monitoring to start the clock and get it over with is better. But if there's no proof, never self report. 

could the hospital/manager come back months later and report me? Are they just that slow? 

SMBnurse said:

could the hospital/manager come back months later and report me? Are they just that slow? 

The answer unfortunately....is yes, they can, but here's the scary part.  By Federal Law, every hospital in the USA must report suspected or confirmed Diversion cases to the DEA within 45 days of the event. The standard or threshold is somewhat low for reporting. For example, even if the nurse didn't admit Diversion the Hospital and Pharmacy does its own investigation and if there are abnormal pixis pulls and a witness saying the nurse looked impaired, that crosses the threshold and the CEO of the Hospital and Pharmacy Chief must report. The 45 day timeframe gives the Hospital enough time to complete their internal investigation and gather evidence, if there is evidence. 

Many nurses in the USA often come to the attention of the BON through the DEA. It's often the DEA that gets contacted first and then the DEA notifies the BON. Sometimes, the Hospital notifies the DEA and BON at the same time. So for example, let's say the hospital didn't report to the BON yet (and they won't if you didn't admit to diversion) the pharmacy/hospital will do it's own internal investigation during that 45 day window and if the evidence is there, they report to the DEA. Sometimes they literally forget to report to the BON, but they don't forget to report to DEA because they face millions in fines for failing to report if their investigation supports likely Diversion. Lets say the hospital finishes its investigation finds enough evidence, then reports at the 40 day mark from the event. The DEA gets it and it can take thr DEA up to 6 months for them to contact the BON investigator, then the BON takes sometimes 4 months to open an investigation on the nurse, so sometimes, 11 or 12 months could go by before a nurse realizes they are under investigation.

The DEA will not get involved if the nurse is diverting waste for personal use. The DEA will contact the BON investigator to ensure the BON (state level) takes over from that point. When the nurse substitutes large amounts of narcotics (filling vials for patient use with saline) or is selling narcs or giving them to family and/or friends, the DEA takes over and these are the cases where nurses sometimes do time in a Federal Prison.

If you diverted and the evidence is there that something is wrong in the Pixis and you know the Hospital is investigating you, I would enter monitoring. If your boss has made a threat to contact the BON, but hasn't done it yet, it's likely because she made the statement due to poor emotional control and lack of any kind of legal knowledge and the people in the Hospital at the top have told her to hit the breaks. They've likely informed her to slow down and let's gather evidence and get with Pharmacy and records and go over all pixis pulls and charts and if anything is off with the investigation, they will then report to the BON and DEA.