Kentucky Board KARE

SMBnurse · Jan 7

Where is mental illness addressed with the KBN?
I self reported a diversion with the purpose of SI. I did attempt about a month ago but woke up alive. These diverted drugs were just randomly removed with no order over a 2-3 shift period. I do not use opiates and won't test positive. Also my employer never tested me. I have significant documented history of mental decline prior to this with medication noncompliance being a primary factor of SI. What am I looking at? Should I use a Lawyer?

Hmhgjh · Jan 7

Just to clarify, are you all talking about the OIG exclusion list? Or is the "state list" something different you are discussing?

SoberNP · Jan 7

Hmhgjh said:

Just to clarify, are you all talking about the OIG exclusion list? Or is the "state list" something different you are discussing?

I was on the OIG exclusion list, I got reinstated with them in October 2024 without any issues. This is the Medicaid (insurance) state number they denied

NurseJackie69 · Jan 8

SoberNP said:

I was on the OIG exclusion list, I got reinstated with them in October 2024 without any issues. This is the Medicaid (insurance) state number they denied

OK in your original post, you used the word "Medicaid" and Medicaid implies the State Exclusion list and not the OIG list. Big difference. You are now saying you were on the OIG list and got off, but you got excluded by your State (Medicaid Exclusion). This MIGHT.....be as simple as a phone call to your State DHHS which is who runs the Medicaid Exclusion list and let them know that you have been removed from the Federal OIG list. I'm willing to bet your state DHHS (Medicaid Exclusion people) Do Not Know that you are off the OIG list. This could possibly be as simple as one phone call. I recommend calling them ASAP.

WeDoRecover95 · Jan 8

NurseJackie69 said:

OK in your original post, you used the word "Medicaid" and Medicaid implies the State Exclusion list and not the OIG list. Big difference. You are now saying you were on the OIG list and got off, but you got excluded by your State (Medicaid Exclusion). This MIGHT.....be as simple as a phone call to your State DHHS which is who runs the Medicaid Exclusion list and let them know that you have been removed from the Federal OIG list. I'm willing to bet your state DHHS (Medicaid Exclusion people) Do Not Know that you are off the OIG list. This could possibly be as simple as one phone call. I recommend calling them ASAP.

They do know I am off the list. They sent me a bunch of questions in regards to my SUD history and the things I am doing to ensure this doesn't happen again. I filled it out with much detail and honesty and told them how well I was doing and what all I was doing. I had to submit a written request for more info on my denial. They wouldn't talk to me via email or by phone which was crazy to me. I put it in the mail today, so now it is a waiting game to hear back from them then I can take the next steps. I am hopeful it is an easy solution. God has got me this far, so his timing, his will, not mine. Just have to keep telling myself that. Thank you for the insight though!! greatly appreciated!!

NurseJackie69 · Jan 8

SMBnurse said:

Where is mental illness addressed with the KBN?
I self reported a diversion with the purpose of SI. I did attempt about a month ago but woke up alive. These diverted drugs were just randomly removed with no order over a 2-3 shift period. I do not use opiates and won't test positive. Also my employer never tested me. I have significant documented history of mental decline prior to this with medication noncompliance being a primary factor of SI. What am I looking at? Should I use a Lawyer?

Two ways to go about doing this and I am NOT yelling you to lie, but there are two options.

Option 1. You reported a diversion. Thst means you are going to get time in monitoring and I would bet a minimum of 3 years REGARDLESS of whether you have a lawyer. Once the words "I diverted" came out of your mouth, your work has this and now, the BON has it. You are caught, period. One you are in thr monitoring program, part of your requirements will be ongoing mental health therapy/counseling.

Option 2. You have a documented mental health history. You tell the BON that you did NOT divert and that you made it up because of your mental health history. I am NOT telling you to do this. I am saying that some nurses would do it. This would be a situation where you lawyer up and you fight it.

Purely my opinion here. I would choose Option 1. Why? Even with the best lawyer in America, because you have told them you diverted, that equals time in monitoring. Even if you told them you made it up, they will say you have a significant mental health history that requires monitoring. The lawyer will cost lots of money and the only thing a lawyer could do is POSSIBLY (not an absolute) but POSSIBLY negotiate or help get your monitoring time at only 3 years instead of 5, but you are paying 10 grand to tske that chance. The BON does not care why you diverted. They only care thst you diverted. The positive for you is that you can get thr mental health care you need whether in monitoring or not in monitoring and that will be good for you. I'm glad you are alive and hope and pray you get the needed help because you have a long life ahead of you and I'm betting you are a good nurse.

NurseJackie69 · Jan 8

WeDoRecover95 said:

They do know I am off the list. They sent me a bunch of questions in regards to my SUD history and the things I am doing to ensure this doesn't happen again. I filled it out with much detail and honesty and told them how well I was doing and what all I was doing. I had to submit a written request for more info on my denial. They wouldn't talk to me via email or by phone which was crazy to me. I put it in the mail today, so now it is a waiting game to hear back from them then I can take the next steps. I am hopeful it is an easy solution. God has got me this far, so his timing, his will, not mine. Just have to keep telling myself that. Thank you for the insight though!! greatly appreciated!!

That is crazy. Sounds like you are strong in your recovery and I am happy for you. You are going to come out on the positive side of this. It's basically impossible to get on the Federal OIG list without first being on your states Medicaid Exclusion List because your state exclusion list is the reporting committee for the Federal OIG list. You would have had to be on that list at some point prior to making it up to the Federal OIG list. I still think you have a good shot at getting off the Medicaid Exclusion List prior to your criminal side being resolved, and that's because you have been in, and you are in recovery, and you are no longer on the OIG list, and you have not been Convicted of a crime. Those are factors in your favor. Charged with a crime and convicted of a crime are two different things. Prayers sent your way.

SMBnurse · Jan 14

NurseJackie69 said:

Two ways to go about doing this and I am NOT yelling you to lie, but there are two options.

Option 1. You reported a diversion. Thst means you are going to get time in monitoring and I would bet a minimum of 3 years REGARDLESS of whether you have a lawyer. Once the words "I diverted" came out of your mouth, your work has this and now, the BON has it. You are caught, period. One you are in thr monitoring program, part of your requirements will be ongoing mental health therapy/counseling.

Option 2. You have a documented mental health history. You tell the BON that you did NOT divert and that you made it up because of your mental health history. I am NOT telling you to do this. I am saying that some nurses would do it. This would be a situation where you lawyer up and you fight it.

Purely my opinion here. I would choose Option 1. Why? Even with the best lawyer in America, because you have told them you diverted, that equals time in monitoring. Even if you told them you made it up, they will say you have a significant mental health history that requires monitoring. The lawyer will cost lots of money and the only thing a lawyer could do is POSSIBLY (not an absolute) but POSSIBLY negotiate or help get your monitoring time at only 3 years instead of 5, but you are paying 10 grand to tske that chance. The BON does not care why you diverted. They only care thst you diverted. The positive for you is that you can get thr mental health care you need whether in monitoring or not in monitoring and that will be good for you. I'm glad you are alive and hope and pray you get the needed help because you have a long life ahead of you and I'm betting you are a good nurse.

Interestingly enough I finally got the balls to re read my self report and I did not admit to diversion. I reported mania and uncertainty of my actions during the week in question.

NurseJackie69 · Jan 14

SMBnurse said:

Interestingly enough I finally got the balls to re read my self report and I did not admit to diversion. I reported mania and uncertainty of my actions during the week in question.

That's a meaningful detail that changes everything.....your lawyer needs to know that you didn't report or admit to diversion. That can change lots of things. If she or he was under the impression that you already admitted to diversion, make sure to very quickly inform the attorney this wasn't what happened.

DuckyGirl06 · Jan 20

General question:

How would you all feel about returning to the same place of employment after everything that has happened? My employer wants me to stay with them in a non-bedside role since I have been compliant and truthful with everything. I have been there for 7 years and would like to stay, but I'm terrified of people talking about me. I have spoken to coworkers who say that yes, rumors are going around. I know I shouldn't care, but I am embarrassed.

What are your alls thoughts?

SMBnurse · Jan 20

I would stay. If they're willing to work with you that's huge and to not have to worry about finding a job is also huge. *** the haters. It's not your business what they think about you.

NurseJackie69 · Jan 20

DuckyGirl06 said:

General question:

How would you all feel about returning to the same place of employment after everything that has happened? My employer wants me to stay with them in a non-bedside role since I have been compliant and truthful with everything. I have been there for 7 years and would like to stay, but I'm terrified of people talking about me. I have spoken to coworkers who say that yes, rumors are going around. I know I shouldn't care, but I am embarrassed.

What are your alls thoughts?

Stay for sure. First the employer sees your changes day by day, sees how well you are doing day by day, and when it's time to return to nursing, it's almost automatic that you have a job. Getting a job returning to nursing is difficult and extremely stressful as you try to get a job at a new place that doesn't know you. Nurses sometimes spend a year trying to find a job. Staying and working there is huge for this reason but there is even a bigger one.

2nd Reason. It's monumental for YOUR recovery. Basic recovery principle is letting SHAME go. It's OK to have some guilt that will eventually go away, but Shame equals disaster and shame is also tied to it's first cousin....narcissistic behavior. You want to be at a point in your recovery where internally, within your deep inner core, you deep down don't really care what people think of you. It's fine to care a little, but you want to be at a place where shame has left the building and internally, YOU know that each and everyday, you are doing the right thing. For nurses that still hold onto to deep shame, it's a disaster regarding relapse risk. In the subconscious, if we carry so much shame that it devastates us regarding what people think about us, it kind of swings to a narcissistic element that the nurse has.

I would stay. I would wear my recovery across my chest and share my story freely and have no shame. Is this hard to do? Will it be a tough transition for you? Heck yes it will. It's not easy. It's accomplished with the work we put into recovery and not having secrets and scheming and on constant "guard" about "somebody finding out" about my past. GET your past OUT in the open and share your story. This CRIPPLES shame and it's actually far more beneficial from a recovery perspective.

I would stay 100 percent and consider that a golden opportunity. Just my opinion though. From a recovery perspective, you stated that you are "terrified of people talking about you and rumors are going around." I don't mean to be offensive, but am being straight up with you from a recovery standpoint.....you being "terrified of people talking about you" is overwhelmingly likely at it's inner psychological core root, one of the major reasons you used to begin with. Your work in recovery needs to be focused on "why you are so terrified about what people say" or "what the rumors are." That'd concerning and actually, not a good sign regarding recovery progression. With work put in, you will get there. You want to get to a place internally where it rolls completely off of your shoulder when or if you hear that someone has "talked bad about you." Yoi want to be at a place where you can openly share in the nurse break room about your past and it raising your heart rate when you do by only 3 beats per minute instead of 50 beats per minute. That's the sweet spot. That's where your work needs to be places regarding recovery.

Severe worrying about what others think of you equals leading to secrets and deceit, and secrets and deceit can quickly lead to relapse, and this is not an opinion, that is out of any basic recovery and addiction textbook.