Kentucky Board KARE

Has anyone successfully had disciplinary action removed from their license?

Upon searching my license, it shows I am enrolled in KARE plus it shows the disciplinary report of why I was placed into KARE. When I questioned my CM about it, she stated that it was necessary given my actions and that they "may consider removing it" once my 5 years is up. 

Just curious if its worth consulting an attorney over. I am only 7 months into my KARE agreement and I'm struggling to find a nursing job -- I know that's why.

It's not possible for the BON to delete the entry regarding your disciplinary history.  After your recovery and monitoring is done, the license will show that it is no longer in disciplinary status on nursy's, but it will show you have a history and that history will be viewable.  That's for life.  No lawyer in America can get that removed.  But.......after your time is done with recovery and monitoring, etc, your license will show Unencumbered, non disciplinary status, no issues, etc, but.......it will still show "reports" or "documents history" tab under your license that allows someone to click that tab and see your history.  That's legal in all 50 states and a lawyer can not touch it.  Has no effect on it and can not get it removed.  It's been challenged in courts many, many, times, and they all lost. 

What I hate so bad is, im so stupid and thought using THC on a vacation right before a travel contract was a good idea. So I had issues with the pre employment drug screen. I hired a lawyer and everything thinking it would help my case but instead I got 1 year of monitoring and have the disciplinary action no my license and it does not say it was for thc. It's just vague and says a drug related but or something along those lines but doesn't say what. I don't know im it would even matter to if it did or not. I was under the impression after finishing my year of monitoring and paying all the fines I would have the record dropped. Either way im so mad at myself. I wasn't even employed at the time of the drug screen. I know it's wrong bc thc is still a drug but this has hung over my head this whole time and I feel so embarrassed. 

SheelaDavis said:

It's not possible for the BON to delete the entry regarding your disciplinary history.  After your recovery and monitoring is done, the license will show that it is no longer in disciplinary status on nursy's, but it will show you have a history and that history will be viewable.  That's for life.  No lawyer in America can get that removed.  But.......after your time is done with recovery and monitoring, etc, your license will show Unencumbered, non disciplinary status, no issues, etc, but.......it will still show "reports" or "documents history" tab under your license that allows someone to click that tab and see your history.  That's legal in all 50 states and a lawyer can not touch it.  Has no effect on it and can not get it removed.  It's been challenged in courts many, many, times, and they all lost. 

I'm confused. When I asked my case manager about it, she said that once I successfully complete the KARE program my case will be reviewed to have the discipline removed, as long as there are no further noncompliance issues. But you seem to be telling me that it will never be removed. So are they just feeding me garbage to keep me quiet? 
It just seems very unfair. I take responsibility for what I did but I have met a lot of nurses throughout this whole ordeal, many of whom have relapsed or faced legal action... things way worse than what I did. And none of them have any disciplinary action on their license. 

Let's be careful with words here. Words matter.

A. Discipline Removed (meaning) the public or another nurse board can NOT see any past discipline you had when looking at nursys site or your states BON website.

B.  License no longer under disciplinary status meaning, unencumbered, not restricted, monitoring is over, license is back to fully normal.

Notice how the 2 above (A) and (B) are NOT the same.  If the BON made your discipline public, then there is no getting it removed from viewing, period. This means, someone can always see it.  How do you know if public? You can go to your BONs website right now. If your consent order is viewable when you search your license, then that will remain viewable forever, even after you are done with monitoring.

I've said this before many times and will say it again on here. Nurses, STOP asking your case managers of your monitoring/recovery program Questions that are BON specific. A therapist or counselor who has a 4 year degree or masters degree in social science and certified in addiction that works for the monitoring program is NOT the BON. This person has little to ZERO knowledge about BON private discipline versus public discipline or whether items are "removed." LOL. They are blowing smoke up your ***. They don't have a clue as to whether "your discipline" will be removed. They are speaking out of their ***. They are guilty for feeding you a line of BS, but as a nurse, you have to be knowledgeable enough to know that deep down, your question about discipline is NOT a monitoring program case manager question, but a BON question.

So, after your monitoring program is done and you've fulfilled your BON consent order, then in ONE sense, yes, your license is no longer under disciplinary status. But, in the OTHER sense, your past disciplinary issues are still viewable. Careful with talking to case managers about BON consent order stuff because They..... by in Large, Do NOT listen.  It could be miscommunication to where the case manager is telling you that when your time is done with monitoring, then your "discipline" is removed...... meaning..........your current license is no longer under discipline which is a "no duh, no ***" statement that is obvious, but...... your past can still be seen. A lawyer absolutely 100 percent can NOT fix that or get it removed IF......IF......your case was made public by the BON. See above on how to tell if your case is public if you are not sure. Also, talk to the BON. Every BON in America has a compliance department or compliance manager. You want to speak to that individual.

SheelaDavis said:

Let's be careful with words here. Words matter.

A. Discipline Removed (meaning) the public or another nurse board can NOT see any past discipline you had when looking at nursys site or your states BON website.

B.  License no longer under disciplinary status meaning, unencumbered, not restricted, monitoring is over, license is back to fully normal.

Notice how the 2 above (A) and (B) are NOT the same.  If the BON made your discipline public, then there is no getting it removed from viewing, period. This means, someone can always see it.  How do you know if public? You can go to your BONs website right now. If your consent order is viewable when you search your license, then that will remain viewable forever, even after you are done with monitoring.

I've said this before many times and will say it again on here. Nurses, STOP asking your case managers of your monitoring/recovery program Questions that are BON specific. A therapist or counselor who has a 4 year degree or masters degree in social science and certified in addiction that works for the monitoring program is NOT the BON. This person has little to ZERO knowledge about BON private discipline versus public discipline or whether items are "removed." LOL. They are blowing smoke up your ***. They don't have a clue as to whether "your discipline" will be removed. They are speaking out of their ***. They are guilty for feeding you a line of BS, but as a nurse, you have to be knowledgeable enough to know that deep down, your question about discipline is NOT a monitoring program case manager question, but a BON question.

So, after your monitoring program is done and you've fulfilled your BON consent order, then in ONE sense, yes, your license is no longer under disciplinary status. But, in the OTHER sense, your past disciplinary issues are still viewable. Careful with talking to case managers about BON consent order stuff because They..... by and Large, Do NOT listen.  It could be miscommunication to where the case manager is telling you that when your time is done with monitoring, then your "discipline" is removed...... meaning..........your current license is no longer under discipline which is a "no duh, no ***" statement that is obvious, but...... your past can still be seen. A lawyer absolutely 100 percent can NOT fix that or get it removed IF......IF......your case was made public by the BON. See above on how to tell if your case is public if you are not sure. Also, talk to the BON. Every BON in America has a compliance department or compliance manager. You want to speak to that individual.

My disciplinary action is visible to the public. I'm not sure who else to contact at the BON as my case manager is the only person I have been discussing with and she is the one who issued the disciplinary action. Her exact verbiage is "assuming you successfully complete the KARE Program and there are no additional noncompliance issues, your case will be reviewed to have the discipline removed.” 
I have a friend who is a paralegal for an office who handles medical malpractice and similar cases. She said that "In Kentucky, public records of a nursing board matter of a reprimand may be expunged under limited circumstances.” 
I'm not saying you're wrong by any means. I'm just holding onto some hope that once these 5 years are over, everything will be wiped clean and I can go back to my normal life. I miss the opportunities that nursing has to offer and I know that I will never get the chance to experience those if this remains on my record. 

Got it, so your case manager you are referring to is someone on the BON and not the recovery program case manager. As for the BON case manager who told you that if you have no issues with KARE, the discipline will be removed upon review. That is TRUE and it applies to 99.9 percent of all nurses in America who are in recovery program and BON consent order and their time is almost done (3 years or 4 or 5, etc). Obviously, it's not for life. Meaning, Kentucky will not monitor you for the rest of your nursing career and it ends at some point, but she is talking (in my opinion) about removing the discipline status on your license. Meaning......you are done. It's over. No more monitoring or KARE program or meetings or restrictions. It's done. BUT.....as far as your license history showing discipline, extremely extremely unlikely to get that removed from public view.

MOST states allow for expungement. But, overwhelmingly unlikely to get it expunged EXCEPT for cases where a nurse voluntary enrolled in their state's monitoring program, then they messed up while in their state monitoring/recovery program and the BON changed their status from voluntary admission to involuntary (BON mandated) in that state recovery program, and disciplined them for messing up (usually more than one mess up to get discipline if you voluntary enter a monitoring program,) then the BON made the discipline public, but after the nurse finally completes and claws through the program and finishes in 5 years, it is these cases that stand a higher chance of expungement because the nurse at the very beginning, even though messing up a couple of times and having her status changed from voluntary to BON mandated, she still volunteered or self admitted to that states recovery program in the very beginning.

For diversion in the hospital, I've seen 0 cases in 10 years get expunged in my time. But, can you try to get it expunged and is there any harm? Of course not. Doesn't hurt to try other than the lawyer fees. I'm just telling you my experience. There is ALWAYS a chance, but like the lawyer said, extremely limited or "under limited circumstances"and from what I've seen, RARE. The circumstances that are limited are ones I described above. Another type of limited corcumstance is when the nurse retires. She is 65. She let's all licenses lapse and now has no license in any state and will never practice again. In these circumstances, it is also more possible for expungement. But for 99 percent of nurses in monitoring, who complete monitoring and had public discipline, the odds are massively and overwhelmingly LOW of getting it removed from public view.

Final thing. Does it really matter if future employers can see your past or future state BONs where you get licensed? NO, not in my opinion. The only thing I see is a nurse who completed recovery and a rigorous program and future employers are overwhelmingly not just sympathetic, but often impressed. The openness and sharing of that info between the nurse and new employer actually creates MORE of a bond in the future for trust and the nurse ends up feeling like they can share anything personal with their future employer and future employers actually LIKE that. In the end, it can more than most times offer a net Benefit. I know it sounds crazy, but I've seen it countless times.

Lastly, this statement is for recovery nurses and any reading. One of the most tell-tale signs that a nurse is recovered and chances of relapse are incredibly low is when a nurse can "meet a new person, tell the person she just met or a group of 20 people what hand she uses to wipe her a$$ with and which hand she uses to do it." When you get to that level, you are in good shape. I had a psychiatrist certified in Addiction Medicine tell me that once and he was right. He said, if you have incredible insecurity or embarrassment to the point is provokes massive anxiety by doing the above, then the above example is part of one of your core character flaws and it is one of the reasons you started using to start with. All of us have to get to the point to where we simply and deep down, TRULY do not care what others think of us and it literally rolls off our skin. Easier said than done, but it's a good goal, especially and critically important to those in recovery. What it hints at above is minimizing SECRETS. Secrets are deadly for those in recovery. Having nothing to hide wreaks of solid recovery. Secrets wreak of relapse.

SheelaDavis said:

Got it, so your case manager you are referring to is someone on the BON and not the recovery program case manager. As for the BON case manager who told you that if you have no issues with KARE, the discipline will be removed upon review. That is TRUE and it applies to 99.9 percent of all nurses in America who are in recovery program and BON consent order and their time is almost done (3 years or 4 or 5, etc). Obviously, it's not for life. Meaning, Kentucky will not monitor you for the rest of your nursing career and it ends at some point, but she is talking (in my opinion) about removing the discipline status on your license. Meaning......you are done. It's over. No more monitoring or KARE program or meetings or restrictions. It's done. BUT.....as far as your license history showing discipline, extremely extremely unlikely to get that removed from public view.

MOST states allow for expungement. But, overwhelmingly unlikely to get it expunged EXCEPT for cases where a nurse voluntary enrolled in their state's monitoring program, then they messed up while in their state monitoring/recovery program and the BON changed their status from voluntary admission to involuntary (BON mandated) in that state recovery program, and disciplined them for messing up (usually more than one mess up to get discipline if you voluntary enter a monitoring program,) then the BON made the discipline public, but after the nurse finally completes and claws through the program and finishes in 5 years, it is these cases that stand a higher chance of expungement because the nurse at the very beginning, even though messing up a couple of times and having her status changed from voluntary to BON mandated, she still volunteered or self admitted to that states recovery program in the very beginning.

For diversion in the hospital, I've seen 0 cases in 10 years get expunged in my time. But, can you try to get it expunged and is there any harm? Of course not. Doesn't hurt to try other than the lawyer fees. I'm just telling you my experience. There is ALWAYS a chance, but like the lawyer said, extremely limited or "under limited circumstances"and from what I've seen, RARE. The circumstances that are limited are ones I described above. Another type of limited corcumstance is when the nurse retires. She is 65. She let's all licenses lapse and now has no license in any state and will never practice again. In these circumstances, it is also more possible for expungement. But for 99 percent of nurses in monitoring, who complete monitoring and had public discipline, the odds are massively and overwhelmingly LOW of getting it removed from public view.

Final thing. Does it really matter if future employers can see your past or future state BONs where you get licensed? NO, not in my opinion. The only thing I see is a nurse who completed recovery and a rigorous program and future employers are overwhelmingly not just sympathetic, but often impressed. The openness and sharing of that info between the nurse and new employer actually creates MORE of a bond in the future for trust and the nurse ends up feeling like they can share anything personal with their future employer and future employers actually LIKE that. In the end, it can more than most times offer a net Benefit. I know it sounds crazy, but I've seen it countless times.

Lastly, this statement is for recovery nurses and any reading. One of the most tell-tale signs that a nurse is recovered and chances of relapse are incredibly low is when a nurse can "meet a new person, tell the person she just met or a group of 20 people what hand she uses to wipe her a$$ with and which hand she uses to do it." When you get to that level, you are in good shape. I had a psychiatrist certified in Addiction Medicine tell me that once and he was right. He said, if you have incredible insecurity or embarrassment to the point is provokes massive anxiety by doing the above, then the above example is part of one of your core character flaws and it is one of the reasons you started using to start with. All of us have to get to the point to where we simply and deep down, TRULY do not care what others think of us and it literally rolls off our skin. Easier said than done, but it's a good goal, especially and critically important to those in recovery. What it hints at above is minimizing SECRETS. Secrets are deadly for those in recovery. Having nothing to hide wreaks of solid recovery. Secrets wreak of relapse.

Thank you so much for clarifying all this. It at least puts my mind at ease, for now. 
 

Yes, when I speak about my "case manager" it is the person from the BON assigned to my case. She was the one who said we could discuss removal of the disciplinary action once I have successfully completed the recovery program. I would hope she wouldn't lie that it's a possibility to remove it, although I do not have a ton of faith in them to be quite honest.

Additionally, discipline was placed on my license after I was already enlisted in the recovery program. I got myself enrolled in KARE and relapsed about a year in. Because of this relapse, they suspended my license and slapped me with the (public) disciplinary action. I have since gotten the suspension lifted but the information remains public. 
 

I appreciate your feedback on this. I suppose all I can do is get through the program and hopefully take the steps toward having the discipline removed once completed. Fingers crossed that they allow me to do so and it doesn't cost thousands of dollars. 

Tony Trimble said:

Thank you so much for clarifying all this. It at least puts my mind at ease, for now. 
 

Yes, when I speak about my "case manager" it is the person from the BON assigned to my case. She was the one who said we could discuss removal of the disciplinary action once I have successfully completed the recovery program. I would hope she wouldn't lie that it's a possibility to remove it, although I do not have a ton of faith in them to be quite honest.

 

Additionally, discipline was placed on my license after I was already enlisted in the recovery program. I got myself enrolled in KARE and relapsed about a year in. Because of this relapse, they suspended my license and slapped me with the (public) disciplinary action. I have since gotten the suspension lifted but the information remains public. 
 

I appreciate your feedback on this. I suppose all I can do is get through the program and hopefully take the steps toward having the discipline removed once completed. Fingers crossed that they allow me to do so and it doesn't cost thousands of dollars. 

You have a shot. What you just described is EXACTLY what I discussed in the previous post about possible exceptions for expungement. Literally, you just described the exact scenario I have earlier and, I have seen expunged. It's still NOT a given, but there's a chance because you meet the rare criteria which is...

Self enrolled (voluntary), messes up while in the program, BON disciplines you, makes it public, converts your KARE status to BON mandated from voluntary-self enrolled. When it's all said and done, the fact that you self enrolled long before BON discipline occurred gives yourself a chance. It's still on the somewhat low side (in my opinion) but FAR higher than 99 percent of other nurses in monitoring. Either way, you will be OK regardless.

Has anyone noted the emergency pending order by the KBN? 
does this mean all narcotic investigations aren't held by the board at all anymore? And if no charge within 120 days then apparently they... drop it? 
https://kbn.ky.gov/KBN%20Documents/PENDING_201%20KAR%2020-161%20Investigation%20and%20depositions%20of%20complaints.pdf