Johns Hopkins Entry into Nursing (MSN) Spring 2021

wishwasher · Dec 19, 2020

Thanks for the advice. Did it seem like everyone in your cohort took on that much debt (ignoring those whose parents/spouses paid)? JHU scholarships didn’t bring anyone under 50k?

DC_RN · Dec 19, 2020

12 minutes ago, likeaplanet said:

Thanks for the advice. Did it seem like everyone in your cohort took on that much debt (ignoring those whose parents/spouses paid)? JHU scholarships didn’t bring anyone under 50k?

NP! I would say most people who took out loans took upwards of 120k. I took about 100k because my parents were able to help a bit. I received a 15k scholarship and I think this was what most people received (maybe 15-20k on avg?). I did hear from one student she argued with financial aid and got a large scholarship to match her University of Maryland tuition, however I never knew if this was true or not.

botmann · Dec 19, 2020

I cannot disagree with the points given. I think some people think they're going to make more fresh out of nursing with the direct entry MSN versus the BSN. One may have more education, but still don't know a thing because of lack of floor time. The MSN and, maybe the JHU name, can be factors later in one's career.

It's pretty obvious one is probably going to rack up at least $100K in debt because the tuition along is at least $100K. One still needs to eat and a place to live. I think some people rack up more debt because of lifestyle choices. Going out to eat, Starbucks, and so forth will add up over two years.

Without a breakdown of the debt people are leaving the program with, one cannot be definitive. Given most people are in the mid-20s to 30s, it would not be unrealistic to see many go into the program with significant debt, even more, likely if one went to private school for their bachelor's. I think the national average debt for a bachelor's degree is $35K.

A lot of this is going to come down to options, one's end goal, and realistic outlook, and if they feel the program will get them there. If being a nurse is all one wants, I couldn't recommend going to the local community college's program, where the total tuition for the program will run around $5K. From there you can go to ADN to BSN bridge program and spend another $8-$15 at the local state university.

Like mentioned before, I would not choose this program solely for the name of the degree and think it's a be a key to open all doors in a nursing career. This is similar to going into nursing for the money nurses make; a sure way to get burn out.

If you can plan ahead, wrap your head around you're going to leave the program will enough debt that in some states you could buy a house outright, then it may not be a bad choice.

On a side note, I don't recall any private university being cheap at any level of education. Places like USC, Stanford, Loyola Marymount (sp?), Pepperdine, and so forth are around $50K per semester at the undergraduate level; that's $200K for a bachelor's. The nice thing, in general, they do not charge more for out of state students.

Stefyxox · Dec 19, 2020

2 hours ago, DC_RN said:

Hi everyone,

I am a graduate from this program and just have some insight regarding what people are saying.

1. Never pay more than 50k for a degree that will ultimately make you an RN. 99% of you are going to be RNs after this program and get paid the exact same (none of my colleagues got paid more because of their MSN) as a BSN or ADN nurse. Also, no hospitals (at least in the DMV or Cali) will look differently at you because you went to Hopkins. So my advice - don't rack up 100k+ of debt for a job that will pay you half of that yearly just because of the Hopkins name. Unless your family is paying for your schooling with no difficulty.

2. Hopkins gave almost everyone in my cohort a scholarship. Many believe this was a way to incentivize people to pay the quite frankly ridiculous tuition by thinking we somehow earned a scholarship at such a reputable institution.

3. It does not matter where you get a nursing degree. Hopkins hires tons of BSN nurses and BSN and MSN are essentially the same thing in the eyes of entry level nursing. If you continue to get your DNP, there are still few benefits of having an MSN versus BSN. Like maybe 2/3 less classes? Is that worth an additional 50k in tuition? No.

4. Hopkins students ended up being really upset with the amount of money paid back at the end of this program compared to people from University of Maryland, who if in state, paid a fraction of tuition only to be just as competitive for nursing jobs. Even ICUs or ED or other competitive units do not care about the Hopkins name because they know these are people that paid a ridiculous amount usually for the name.

Note: these are just my thoughts that resonated with a lot of people who graduated with me. I was lucky to be able to save money living at home after graduation, but it is reaaaally hard to pay off 100k+ in loans if you make 50-70k salary and have to pay rent/for a wedding/children. And the interest is going to accrue like crazy. Basically, unless you have a partner making a lot of money, or you want to pay loans the rest of your life, or if you're the lucky 5/6 people who get into a good loan repayment program, you're kinda screwed by Hopkins tuition. Please think twice about a cheaper nursing program. I promise you, your chances of getting a DNP or becoming a CRNA will be the same if you get a BSN/MSN from another cheaper institution. If you are looking to work in DC post-grad, GWU offers a partnership with local hospitals that will pay a fraction of your tuition for a 3 year contract. Hopkins offers no such thing. I really regret racking up so much debt. I got lucky to be in the HRSA loan repayment program (which I only got because I am single and have SO much debt), and to be able to work so much overtime while living at home, but after 3 years I am still in so much debt.

Yeah it finally hit me that the program was a scam when I saw a girl I went to college with get a job at the JHU hospital after completing an ABSN program through a public school here in MN, while a different girl who I went to hs with who had graduated from the JHU MSN got a job at my hospital as a floor nurse making the same as a BSN (my hospital has a set pay scale). Thanks for your honest insight !

wishwasher · Dec 19, 2020

JHUSON has felt a little scammy at times. I actually had to make sure they weren't a for-profit school early in the application process, because all of their mailers, emails, and admissions events felt a little off.

I think part of the problem is that it is incredibly difficult to get into nursing programs. Where I am in California, admissions stats are often 10% acceptance at state schools. Even community colleges are difficult to get into and you're left to rely on a lottery system for admission. I think JHU said they accept something like 35% of their Entry MSN applicants. For some of us, expensive private schools might be the only ones we get into.

I was hoping that getting a nursing degree at JHU would have some benefits that a smaller public program might not have. Access to research or anything like that? I know entry level BSNs and MSNs make the same, but if any current or former JHU students could say if they felt like they had more opportunities, that would be good to know.

DC_RN · Dec 19, 2020

1 hour ago, likeaplanet said:

JHUSON has felt a little scammy at times. I actually had to make sure they weren't a for-profit school early in the application process, because all of their mailers, emails, and admissions events felt a little off.

I think part of the problem is that it is incredibly difficult to get into nursing programs. Where I am in California, admissions stats are often 10% acceptance at state schools. Even community colleges are difficult to get into and you're left to rely on a lottery system for admission. I think JHU said they accept something like 35% of their Entry MSN applicants. For some of us, expensive private schools might be the only ones we get into.

I was hoping that getting a nursing degree at JHU would have some benefits that a smaller public program might not have. Access to research or anything like that? I know entry level BSNs and MSNs make the same, but if any current or former JHU students could say if they felt like they had more opportunities, that would be good to know.

I think most opportunities I ended taking advantage of were getting to know my clinical instructors. The job I got post-grad was on a unit that one of my instructors worked on. But I also think this could’ve have been done at any nursing school. The thing people don’t realize is every hospital wants a nurse than has a BSN/MSN. Nurses are in high demand all the time because of issues with retention. The only time it gets competitive is when it’s a specialized unit, and even then it usually comes down to who you know. Not what school you went to. This isn’t like medical school where it makes sense to pay to go to an expensive school so that you can get into a competitive residency. It literally does not make aaaaany sense to pay the Hopkins price tag for the salary of an RN. I can’t emphasize this enough. You should not be paying 100k for a salary of 50k under any circumstance.

botmann · Dec 21, 2020

On 12/19/2020 at 4:23 PM, DC_RN said:

... You should not be paying 100k for a salary of 50k under any circumstance.

This is a big assumption on pay. One's starting wage is going to depend on previous experience, location, and employer. Some people will earn more, while others may earn less.

Unfortunately, there are many people in the USA that take on that kind of debt and earn a whole lot less.

The rest is good general advice in that the opportunities you get are the ones you create.

I cannot tell you whether going to JHU SON is a good decision or not. I've only started recently. I can tell you, no matter what nursing school you go to, you're going to question your decision or choosing the school or nursing.

DC_RN · Dec 21, 2020

10 minutes ago, botmann said:

This is a big assumption on pay. One's starting wage is going to depend on previous experience, location, and employer. Some people will earn more, while others may earn less.

Unfortunately, there are many people in the USA that take on that kind of debt and earn a whole lot less.

The rest is good general advice in that the opportunities you get are the ones you create.

I cannot tell you whether going to JHU SON is a good decision or not. I've only started recently. I can tell you, no matter what nursing school you go to, you're going to question your decision or choosing the school or nursing.

As a brand new nurse, previous experience won’t matter unless you plan to go on to be a nurse manager or something not exactly clinical. Baltimore starts RNs around 55k, California probably pays the most around as high as 90k. I would still say most of the people I went to school with regret garnering that much debt for a degree that is going to make you an RN. If you want to go to a manager role, sure maybe it’ll help. But most people don’t do that. And you’re right people do take less salary careers with more debt, but they almost always regret it. I’m just trying to give you all some insight before signing off your financial futures to Hopkins. I get it’s exciting to go to a school with such a big name....but it wasn’t worth the suffering to pay loans for years on end afterwards for a lot of people. You sacrifice your happiness because you end up working (and working all the time) to pay these loans, and that’s what expedites nurse burn out as well. Not to mention ends up postponing people from getting advanced nursing degrees for the fear of accruing more debt.

At the end of the day you are going to school to get a job to pay the bills. If your bills are so out of range compared to what you’re making, it’s going to affect your happiness. And all the passion for nursing in the world can’t make up for that. Just saying - you can probably end up wherever you want for a lot cheaper if you don’t go to a private school/money making machine that is obsessed with their name and knows how to manipulate potential students like hopkins.

KMD51 · Dec 21, 2020

So is it not true that if you work for a hospital or the VA for 10 years, loans are forgiven?

DC_RN · Dec 21, 2020

Just now, KMD51 said:

So is it not true that if you work for a hospital or the VA for 10 years, loans are forgiven?

Are you referring to public service loan forgiveness? From what I’ve read, about 1-3% of people who think they’ll end up getting loans forgiven through that program, actually do end up having them forgiven. That’s aneurysm inducing for me because after 10 years of making minimum payments, your loans are going to be near a quarter million and if they weren’t forgiven through PSLF, you’re 10 years older in a whole lot of debt.

I think there is a general rule that after 25 years of minimum payments, yes they may be forgiven. But at this point you’ve probably paid a whole lot anyways.

botmann · Dec 21, 2020

27 minutes ago, KMD51 said:

So is it not true that if you work for a hospital or the VA for 10 years, loans are forgiven?

That program does exist. Unfortunately, recent history has shown the program will use anything to disqualify someone even if it was five years prior. It was in the news quite a bit one or two years ago because of it. I think there is a class action lawsuit because of it. With new president-elect, Joe Biden, this may change if he tries to stick with some of his campaign talks.

And there are other programs that do similar. California has a similar program that I know off the top of my head. Other programs work differently and some do not require a ten-year commitment. Personally, I think it's kind of fubar to have to work ten years to get paid debt. In the meantime, you still need to make the payments.

botmann · Dec 21, 2020

1 hour ago, DC_RN said:

... You sacrifice your happiness because you end up working (and working all the time) to pay these loans, and that’s what expedites nurse burn out as well. Not to mention ends up postponing people from getting advanced nursing degrees for the fear of accruing more debt.

... you can probably end up wherever you want for a lot cheaper if you don’t go to a private school/money making ...

I can't necessarily disagree about your happiness points, but there are assumptions along with it. It's added stress, but people rack up that kind of debt or more on houses, cars, and whatever else (that runs up the credit cards). They're not necessarily unhappy; probably not jumping for joy either. And burnout is probably more due to patient-nurse ratios since California is the only state that has legislation specifically regarding this. Although hours worked I would agree is a contributing factor.

I went to JHU SON information session. One of the first things the recruiter/admissions director said was JHU is very expensive. They're not disillusioned about their cost. I've seen other private nursing schools that were even more expensive.

I agree there are cheaper routes to become a nurse. The unfortunate reality is those schools are very difficult to get into. The cheapest option is a local community college, but most are some kind of lottery system not. Some of the first-come, first-served if you qualify. Some community colleges will guarantee admission after so many tries; the community college I attended was four years. Before the lottery, it was a three-year waitlist. In California, the CSU system, for BSN, is nothing but a competition based on GPAs, TEAS/HESI, and some miscellaneous items--veteran, health experience, location, school, or whatever else the school deems appropriate. None of them have a guaranteed admission after so many tries. As mentioned earlier, in general, the schools get five hundred applications for spots. The number of applications seems to be fairly similar across schools, but the number of spots varies from thirty-ish to seventy. And given the economy, applications for schools tend to increase. I got into CSU East Bay's nursing program and the rumor during orientation was they had almost a thousand applicants for sixty spots. On a side note, I was going to have to graduate school fees and rates. JHU is not easy to into either, but odds wise, students have a higher chance.

I'm not being obtuse to your point that JHU SON is more than likely going to accrue a lot of debt for a job that will probably pay half what one owes starting out. In reality, this is true for most people getting any kind of college education; there are a few exceptions. It can add a lot of stress on how making ends meet, and there are plenty of negative results that arise from that stress.

My point is not necessarily to say to go JHU despite the debt one will likely accumulate. One should definitely take into consideration and compare to their options. It's more about having realistic expectations on the debt, likely hood of getting employment, and the kind of employment. In addition, the lifestyle and sacrifices one is may need to do after graduation because of the loans.

The one thing that is not mentioned and may need to be considered is time. If one did the ADN->BSN->MSN route, one would be looking at four to six years of school; this does not include the earlier school for prerequisites. The cost, even if one went to state schools, would only be slightly cheaper than JHU or any other private school direct entry MSN program. Granted, once one is an RN, many are able to work during school which helps offset the loans; does not make it cheaper. For some, the extra cost is worth it because of the time saved. This was a big factor in my choice.