Joe Manchin is a Trojan Horse!

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I believe that the Democrats need to do anything and everything possible to get rid of Joe Manchin from their ranks! 

I believe he's a sleeper agent planted by the republicans! He's not a team player nor does he represent the Dems philosophy or ideals and much worse, he does not represent his constituents needs! He is power mad and will cost the Dems the mid terms and the next election if he's not removed! 

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2 hours ago, Curious1997 said:

It's my position that Obama failed miserably attempting to reach across the aisle, that if Mueller had shelved his 'ethics' maybe a hundred thousand plus lives would have been saved and numerous other mistakes wouldn't have happened like trillions of dollars to resolve those mistakes. 

To make an omelette, you have to break eggs. It always amazes me when people lose their freedoms through cowardice but have no problems enjoying those same freedoms through the hard choices and sacrifices of others yet being the ultimate hypocrites criticizing the ones who got them those freedoms! 

Do you think America exists because we asked the English politely and they relinquished it? Everything worth having has to be fought for or takes some sacrifice! 

He who is without blame, cast the first stone! 

I think that you are feeling the same unease that I am feeling with where this country is headed.   Tyrannts aren't deterred by laws and process barriers. They are deterred by those who would use the processes and laws to check the efforts and intentions of tyrants. We're about to see if there are any of those people in our Congress or DOJ today. 

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16 hours ago, heron said:

IOW - the ends justify the means? Is it your position that antidemocratic tactics are OK? 

Just wondering how you feel about those anti democratic tactics now after what just transpired in Georgia? 

Wanna bet in Pennsylvania, Texas, Florida and anywhere they can, they will be trying to legislate the same sort of thing? 

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34 minutes ago, Curious1997 said:

Just wondering how you feel about those anti democratic tactics now after what just transpired in Georgia? 

Wanna bet in Pennsylvania, Texas, Florida and anywhere they can, they will be trying to legislate the same sort of thing?  

My objections had to do with your proposals re Manchin. So ... is your solution to disenfranchising voters is to disenfranchise more voters? Got it.

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20 minutes ago, heron said:

My objections had to do with your proposals re Manchin. So ... is your solution to disenfranchising voters is to disenfranchise more voters? Got it.

To be honest, I don't care! 

As long as the filibuster is overthrown and HR1 enacted. Yes, yes squared! 

You don't seem to understand about the concept of nature. Fox, scorpion, river! Scorpion begs the fox to ride on his back, fox deeply hesitant because scorpions kills. Scorpion assures him and fox's good nature prevails. Midway across the scorpion stings the fox despite the fact that they will now both drown. Scorpion states, that it's his nature! 

When you seek to suppress Democracy by voter suppression and gerrymandering etc, you have shown that you don't care about your voters or Democracy! 

Chips are on the table! Rules are decided. Let's play ball! 

I believe that Dems has too many good people to allow abuse of power, I also think that Dems and Libs are weak and pathetic! There are far more democrats out there than republicans evidenced by popular votes. Yet they are behind the cue ball. I only play to win, not to lose! 

I trust that my nature will always guide me from overstepping! 

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8 minutes ago, Curious1997 said:

To be honest, I don't care! 

As long as the filibuster is overthrown and HR1 enacted. Yes, yes squared! 

You don't seem to understand about the concept of nature. Fox, scorpion, river! Scorpion begs the fox to ride on his back, fox deeply hesitant because scorpions kills. Scorpion assures him and fox's good nature prevails. Midway across the scorpion stings the fox despite the fact that they will now both drown. Scorpion states, that it's his nature! 

When you seek to suppress Democracy by voter suppression and gerrymandering etc, you have shown that you don't care about your voters or Democracy! 

Chips are on the table! Rules are decided. Let's play ball! 

I believe that Dems has too many good people to allow abuse of power, I also think that Dems and Libs are weak and pathetic! There are far more democrats out there than republicans evidenced by popular votes. Yet they are behind the cue ball. I only play to win, not to lose! 

I trust that my nature will always guide me from overstepping! 

And you don’t seem to understand that when you allow your opponent to define the terms of the struggle, you lose. Trading a blue hat for a red one doesn’t change the bully wearing it.

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1 hour ago, heron said:

And you don’t seem to understand that when you allow your opponent to define the terms of the struggle, you lose. Trading a blue hat for a red one doesn’t change the bully wearing it.

Probably only could be said by Americans. We live on this isolated continent, oblivious to the real world and spouting codswallop. 

I use to live in London and practically every weekend was spent away in a different country. For less than $120 then you could fly to Turkey round trip for the weekend and spend with hotel, food and entertainment, about $400 incl airfare. Think about the range of countries accessible. 

That is what gave me the perspective of how democracy really is. From Northern Europe with free and fair elections to Eastern and Southern Europe, you really see the differences. You learn what's propaganda, from what's honesty. 

Exactly what's been going on the last decade with Republicans is exactly the playbook used by autocrats and always with the willingness of the people fed lies with limited education and information. They always believe that things will turn out all right because they were so stupid and cowardly! Most of those countries are still the same, just rebranded. 

Republican voters have the same gormless allegiances along with the feeble minded liberals who always want someone else to take the chances and suffer the consequences so they can enjoy their freedoms. 

It's a free world people say, so you enjoy your opinion while you can. Let's hope you don't have any female children or relatives when Roe v Wade gets taken away! 

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6 hours ago, Curious1997 said:

Probably only could be said by Americans. We live on this isolated continent, oblivious to the real world and spouting codswallop. 

I use to live in London and practically every weekend was spent away in a different country. For less than $120 then you could fly to Turkey round trip for the weekend and spend with hotel, food and entertainment, about $400 incl airfare. Think about the range of countries accessible. 

That is what gave me the perspective of how democracy really is. From Northern Europe with free and fair elections to Eastern and Southern Europe, you really see the differences. You learn what's propaganda, from what's honesty. 

Exactly what's been going on the last decade with Republicans is exactly the playbook used by autocrats and always with the willingness of the people fed lies with limited education and information. They always believe that things will turn out all right because they were so stupid and cowardly! Most of those countries are still the same, just rebranded. 

Republican voters have the same gormless allegiances along with the feeble minded liberals who always want someone else to take the chances and suffer the consequences so they can enjoy their freedoms. 

It's a free world people say, so you enjoy your opinion while you can. Let's hope you don't have any female children or relatives when Roe v Wade gets taken away! 

Patronize me all you want - I was in the trenches before you were born and was one of those people who “took the chances” over reproductive rights. I personally witnessed the collapse of the progressive movement as left wing extremists gave the neocons all the ammunition they needed to cut us off at the knees.

So, where did you get the quaint idea that the Republicans have only been working on this for a decade? Gerrymandering? Lies and limited education? That’s because Republicans and neocons started taking over local school boards and state legislatures 50 years ago. The chest thumpers among us let it happen because local politics were beneath them. They let their opponents define the terms of the debate ... and almost lost the country.

And here you are - agitating to do pretty much the same thing, thinking the results will be different. 

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How did Georgia just happen?How did the Supreme Court get skewed? Why did Trump feel that he could instigate an Insurrection? 

It's because we Americans are more interested in television and trends, restaurants and large houses instead of our own well being and the people we care about. When I have my daughters, I want a world where no man can make them feel 2nd class or infringe upon their rights or feel like they can grab them any which way. 

I am not patronizing you and apologize if you feel that way. I am pissed about what just happened, after having just lost all three branches. Senate, Congress and the Presidency Georgia GOP just went right ahead! They are so emboldened that they feel like they can steal elections without consequences! Why is that?

If Dems had previously broken their bones and sent them to jail, they wouldn't feel that way! It's because Dems are really similar re pork and corruption. Why didn't Obama pursue Wall Street and put them in jail? They are the same people who paid those puny fines and are back in business. 

I get the feeling that Biden maybe a little different, I'm hoping anyway? He appears to not be cowardly except for his appointment of Garland. 

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5 hours ago, Curious1997 said:

How did Georgia just happen?How did the Supreme Court get skewed? Why did Trump feel that he could instigate an Insurrection? 

It's because we Americans are more interested in television and trends, restaurants and large houses instead of our own well being and the people we care about. When I have my daughters, I want a world where no man can make them feel 2nd class or infringe upon their rights or feel like they can grab them any which way. 

I am not patronizing you and apologize if you feel that way. I am pissed about what just happened, after having just lost all three branches. Senate, Congress and the Presidency Georgia GOP just went right ahead! They are so emboldened that they feel like they can steal elections without consequences! Why is that?

If Dems had previously broken their bones and sent them to jail, they wouldn't feel that way! It's because Dems are really similar re pork and corruption. Why didn't Obama pursue Wall Street and put them in jail? They are the same people who paid those puny fines and are back in business. 

I get the feeling that Biden maybe a little different, I'm hoping anyway? He appears to not be cowardly except for his appointment of Garland. 

To address your question:

Georgia happened because Republicans built on the southern strategy for years to gain control of the state legislature which then proceeded to gerrymander the state mercilessly, thus diluting progressive or anti-Republican votes. This is why they got away with the most recent voter-suppression legislation ... they control the legislature and now it will take expensive litigation or a new Voting Rights act to change it.

The current Supreme Court is brought to you by a legislature elected by an uninformed and poorly educated electorate who became that way, in part, thanks to gutted public schools, courtesy of neocon-dominated school boards and local town and city administrations.

The elimination of the Fairness Doctrine in broadcast media potentiates that effect quite a bit, too. Expert propagandists trained in the techniques pioneered by the American advertising industry are on hand to keep it all escalating nicely.

Which is why Trump felt he could get away with open insurrection. They’ve gotten away with this destruction for five decades. Outright sedition was just the next step in creating a permanent Republican majority and, for some, a Christian theocracy.

Progressives’ first and worst mistake was to dismiss local and state politics as not important enough to waste our time on.

I just got home from work. I’m going to sleep now. G’night.

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2 hours ago, heron said:

To address your question:

Georgia happened because Republicans built on the southern strategy for years to gain control of the state legislature which then proceeded to gerrymander the state mercilessly, thus diluting progressive or anti-Republican votes. This is why they got away with the most recent voter-suppression legislation ... they control the legislature and now it will take expensive litigation or a new Voting Rights act to change it.

The current Supreme Court is brought to you by a legislature elected by an uninformed and poorly educated electorate who became that way, in part, thanks to gutted public schools, courtesy of neocon-dominated school boards and local town and city administrations.

The elimination of the Fairness Doctrine in broadcast media potentiates that effect quite a bit, too. Expert propagandists trained in the techniques pioneered by the American advertising industry are on hand to keep it all escalating nicely.

Which is why Trump felt he could get away with open insurrection. They’ve gotten away with this destruction for five decades. Outright sedition was just the next step in creating a permanent Republican majority and, for some, a Christian theocracy.

Progressives’ first and worst mistake was to dismiss local and state politics as not important enough to waste our time on.

I just got home from work. I’m going to sleep now. G’night.

Exactly right.  

It's not clear that we can survive this current Trumpublican attack on our democratic processes. I am not really optimistic just relying on my forced hopefulness. 

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8 hours ago, heron said:

To address your question:

Georgia happened because Republicans built on the southern strategy for years to gain control of the state legislature which then proceeded to gerrymander the state mercilessly, thus diluting progressive or anti-Republican votes. This is why they got away with the most recent voter-suppression legislation ... they control the legislature and now it will take expensive litigation or a new Voting Rights act to change it.

The current Supreme Court is brought to you by a legislature elected by an uninformed and poorly educated electorate who became that way, in part, thanks to gutted public schools, courtesy of neocon-dominated school boards and local town and city administrations.

The elimination of the Fairness Doctrine in broadcast media potentiates that effect quite a bit, too. Expert propagandists trained in the techniques pioneered by the American advertising industry are on hand to keep it all escalating nicely.

Which is why Trump felt he could get away with open insurrection. They’ve gotten away with this destruction for five decades. Outright sedition was just the next step in creating a permanent Republican majority and, for some, a Christian theocracy.

Progressives’ first and worst mistake was to dismiss local and state politics as not important enough to waste our time on.

I just got home from work. I’m going to sleep now. G’night.

Georgia happened because liberals never focus on the prize and always expect results because fortuitous events might occur. 

I built my businesses by doing the research, paying attention to finding the right people to help me accomplish my goals and making the move with the accompanying setbacks, but still pushing through and finding solutions! 

That's exactly what the GOP does! They know that they don't have the votes so they install the right legislators and strategic people, always keeping an eye on the big picture to accomplish what they want to do. 

Is Bill Gates a menace currently, Warren Buffet? Gates was once quite illegal re how he managed to make his business succeed but his underlying core was always good. Liberals have to get out of the mindset that you always have to obey the rules or your accomplishments will be tainted. Politics and business are actually dirty businesses! We have got to stop being such hypocrites and holding good people accountable because of mistakes. Al Franken! 

Japanese scientists? I think, recently simulated a womb allowing cells to attach themselves and grow, for the the purpose of difficult pregnancies and allowing very early embryos to survive instead of dying. This theoretically makes men obsolete? Or, might change the current definition of abortion criterion or possibly even fuel illegal research. Should they be shut down or simply monitored and regulated? 

If we liberals want to succeed, we have to allow the capable to help us achieve our goals of free elections without voter suppression of any kind and making dubious politicians and Legislators pay severely for criminal actions. I despise mueller because of his moral choices and blame him for Trump's actions! Is Mueller going to be punished for taking the moral high ground instead of being Patriotic? 

Life is not black and white and people who engage in the fantasy are extremely dangerous to others! Radical Muslims, Jews, Christians for example! 

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Curious, I disagree in that liberals most certainly focussed on the prize - it was just the wrong one. We went for the big, flashy national offices while ignoring the lowly local races. We essentially abandoned our grassroots. 

 

 

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