Jehovah's Witness nurses in the critical care unit?

[asdf88]

Hello

This is my first time posting a thread. I was just wondering if anyone is or knows of a Jehovah's Witness nurse who works in a critical care unit. Also if you dont mind can you tell me at which hospital? The reason I am asking is that I am also one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I just passed my NCLEX. Yay I really want to work in the critical care unit, specifically the CCU. However, when I explained to the supervisor of the ICU/CCU about the issue with the blood transfusion, she said she couldnt hire me on to the critical care unit. Yes, this hospital is offering critical care positions to new grads. I was really devastated because i wanted to really work in the CCU. So I was wondering if it's the same for other hospitals. I explained to the supervisor that I am willing to care for the patient who is receiving the blood transfusion, but that I would need a second nurse(most likely the nurse who would be verifying the blood with me) to spike the blood and press the start button. I do understand why the critical care environment may not want to have a nurse who cannot initiate the blood transfusion. So I was just wondering if I do not have a chance at all in a critical care unit. For now I am orienting in the med-surg floor and I still have lingering feelings for the critical care unit.

Thank You

[hiddencatRN, BSN, RN]

ETA: It's conscience not conscious. Many people are doing this, and it's starting to drive me a little crazy. It makes us look uneducated.

OMG I thought I was the only one, lol! It's like nails on chalkboard to me.

[roser13, ASN, RN]

I understand you. When you have a religion, you stick by it regardless of what anyone thinks. If someone doesn't agree with you, they will get over it. Patients are important and deserve the best care but if you don't feel comfortable because of religious belief you shouldn't have to do it or be rejected because of that.

Now to answer your question, are all hospitals like that? No they are not. The hospital I work at loves Jehovah's Witness because they are hard workers, never late, and do as their [sic] told. They are some of the nicest people ever. In fact there are a few on my critical care floor and they work with them. I honestly think that's horrible that people are giving JW's flack because they can't preform [sic] something for religious beliefs. But don't give up. There will be a CCU floor that will you because of your good work ethic and great beside manor.

I don't know quite where to start, cutekitten.

How's this: What if your mother/grandmother/husband/child were in an intense medical crisis requiring blood transfusion that didn't happen because your loved one's critical care nurse didn't believe in transfusions (and she couldn't find an available set of hands to hang the blood) and your loved one passed away as a result of delay of treatment, how would you feel?

That was a rhetorical question. You will no doubt feel differently once you have some experience in the real world.

[OCNRN63, RN]

I don't know quite where to start, cutekitten.

How's this: What if your mother/grandmother/husband/child were in an intense medical crisis requiring blood transfusion that didn't happen because your loved one's critical care nurse didn't believe in transfusions (and she couldn't find an available set of hands to hang the blood) and your loved one passed away as a result of delay of treatment, how would you feel?

That was a rhetorical question. You will no doubt feel differently once you have some experience in the real world.

Actually, it's immaterial.

Transfusions require the verification of blood by two nurses. Your critical care scenario doesn't pass muster because there would be at least one nurse in the scenario who could hang the blood. The one who objected to hanging the blood could still verify the blood.

I'd be interested to see if anyone could come up with an actual case where someone died as a result of a JW nurse not hanging blood on a patient. No hypothetical scenarios, I mean a real case of a patient death.

I am not advocating one way or the other. I am only talking about what I have experienced in my own career. It's certainly not workable if there is not cooperation on all sides. Personally, I wouldn't go into areas where transfusions are highly likely if I didn't feel comfortable giving them. There are too many misconceptions out there to have to work around, and it could lead to difficulties with co-workers.

[PatMac10,RN, RN]

While working on my first degree, I wrote a paper on JWs. I had a really hard time getting any kind of straight answers from any Witnesses so I had to rely on secondary resources.

What I want to know is, WHY can't JWs administer blood? I totally understand that your religion doesn't allow you to receive blood or donation organs but WHY can't you hang it?

I asked a friend of mine but he wouldn't offer an answer. Actually, he seemed to be unsure himself.

The previous witness poster did a good job of explaining it. Also make sure the people you are talking to are actually baptized Jehovah's witnesses, because many attend our meetings and even go out and knock on doors with us, but to truly be a JW you must be baptized as one. Here and now is not the proper place for me to try to explain our beliefs to you but if you truly have any questions feel free to pm me.

[roser13, ASN, RN]

"Your critical care scenario doesn't pass muster because there would be at least one nurse in the scenario who could hang the blood. The one who objected to hanging the blood could still verify the blood."

Well, not to nitpick, but since you mentioned this scenario, what if the "one who objected" is the primary care nurse for the patient requiring the blood? It is not out of the ordinary to snag another RN for a quick I.D., which requires only a quick check-off. Asking another RN to ID the blood product/patient ID is not the same as asking another RN to hang the blood. The "other" RN may (likely will) have her own issues to deal with.

I'm only trying to point out that accommodations are not always available or advisable.

[OCNRN63, RN]

"Your critical care scenario doesn't pass muster because there would be at least one nurse in the scenario who could hang the blood. The one who objected to hanging the blood could still verify the blood."

Well, not to nitpick, but since you mentioned this scenario, what if the "one who objected" is the primary care nurse for the patient requiring the blood? It is not out of the ordinary to snag another RN for a quick I.D., which requires only a quick check-off. Asking another RN to ID the blood product/patient ID is not the same as asking another RN to hang the blood. The "other" RN may (likely will) have her own issues to deal with.

I'm only trying to point out that accommodations are not always available or advisable.

Does it really matter who hangs the blood and who verifies? My goodness, we're not that rigid where I work. I've hung blood on people who were not my patients and nurses have hung blood on people who were my patients. It's more a matter of who is free at the time to do it. It takes longer to do the ID process (with two people) than it does to spike a bag of blood and push "start." (I say this as someone who hangs blood almost several times a day, every day. I am more than familiar with the procedure.)

It sounds like you are not comfortable with the idea of accommodating someone who doesn't feel she can hang blood. That's fine. It would be better to just say, "I'm not comfortable with that" and let it be.

If a patient is in exigent circumstances, the last thing we should be doing is quibbling over who is doing the hanging of the blood v who is doing the verification (which, as I said before, requires two nurses anyway).

[cutekittenj]

I don't know quite where to start, cutekitten.

How's this: What if your mother/grandmother/husband/child were in an intense medical crisis requiring blood transfusion that didn't happen because your loved one's critical care nurse didn't believe in transfusions (and she couldn't find an available set of hands to hang the blood) and your loved one passed away as a result of delay of treatment, how would you feel?

That was a rhetorical question. You will no doubt feel differently once you have some experience in the real world.

Hey thanks for the question. It actually happened to me first hand. They asked if I wanted a blood transfusion and I refused because I hate receiving blood that is not my own. They told me I would die if I didn't get one and I was like you can just use fluids. And when I needed one they gave me fluids to expand my blood it worked out really well because I didn't die like they said I would. Now on a sad note I had a cousin who received blood(said he would die without one) and he was allergic to it and died even though he had one.

So I do see your point and understand why people my feel uncomfy about the whole thing but my I think you whatever a person believe in should not go against their religion. I do understand both sides of it and your point but for someone to say that a person will die without one is unreasonable and it is unreasonable for someone not to work at a certain place for what they believe in and for people to encourage them to something contrary to what they believe is right. Kinda see where I'm going?(And not knocking what you said in no way because I do see where you are coming from but just having real life experience on the exact opposite on a blood transfusion not working for my cousin has me thinking how good are the blood transfusions really)

[PatMac10,RN, RN]

"Your critical care scenario doesn't pass muster because there would be at least one nurse in the scenario who could hang the blood. The one who objected to hanging the blood could still verify the blood."

Well, not to nitpick, but since you mentioned this scenario, what if the "one who objected" is the primary care nurse for the patient requiring the blood? It is not out of the ordinary to snag another RN for a quick I.D., which requires only a quick check-off. Asking another RN to ID the blood product/patient ID is not the same as asking another RN to hang the blood. The "other" RN may (likely will) have her own issues to deal with.

I'm only trying to point out that accommodations are not always available or advisable.

I don't see why any JW would have a problem simply with "checking off" anything. It's actually spiking the blood that many JWs face a dilemma with.

[OCNRN63, RN]

I think I've pretty much addressed the issues as best I could; continuing to reply would be just repeating myself unnecessarily. My thanks to anyone who tried to read with an open mind.

[carolmaccas66, BSN, RN]

Hey all. I finally heard back from my brother who is an elder with the Jehovahs Witnesses.

He said in this particular scenario (if we have been given all the correct information), it is generally up to the conscious of the individual, but they can have a meeting with the elders to decide. I've known some JW nurses and they try not to work in these areas, but from what my brother told me, JW nurses are not supposed to be involved with anything to do with blood. It's a tricky quesion by the sounds of it. Same with abortion for example (but then that raises other questions, ie: should a JW nurse care for a patient who is going to have an abortion, or care for one that has had one?) But they do believe in medical intervention. They just don't let any blood or blood products into their body.

JWs are hard workers, and I've never had a problem with JW nurses. Half the time u don't even know they ARE a JW.

I've worked with nurses who were Christians who wouldn't look after patients who were going to have abortions, and nobody seems to mind too much though it does p**s me off when it's busy, I must admit.

But look up their website for info if you need it http://www.watchtower.org/

Also look at the websites for disfellowshipped JWs (the ones who got kicked out either temporarily or permanently), or just type in 'ex JWs'.

I didn't like the society after a while (though I knew some good people in it), because even if a baby or young child needs blood, they will let them die before they let anybody medical touch them, and then these children are hailed as martyrs in their magazines and website. This caused a huge ruckus in our family, cos my Mum said when my niece was little, (her parents are my brother who is a JW) they said they would let her die if ever she needed blood/blood products. My Mum said she would fight it all the way to our supreme court & would sue for custody. She said she would even snatch her one day if she had to, that is how bad it got. And yes it IS different when it's your own family member, and that family member is an innocent baby or child.

I spoke to one woman who left the JWs who let her child die rather than have a blood transfusion, and she said she was bullied into it by the elders there and some of the elders wives. So she left, couldn't have anymore children, and told me she will regret it for the rest of her life. It was a very heartwrenching story to listen to.

And as far as I know JWs don't even use autologous blood and to me that is just plain misinterpretation of the bible (if you believe in it).

To me, and THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION, I could not let that any baby/child die.

I don't care what anyone's religion is, we HAVE to follow the law as nurses and letting someone a child etc die is just plain wrong, because children don't understand the religion or all the implications involved, and cannot make informed choices for themselves. And parents should not be allowed to make decisions re life and death of their children re blood, a judge or supreme court or another separate body should have to intervene by law.

JWs have also changed many of their so called rules throughout the years, I think this one re blood will change, if not in it's entirety maybe it will become more flexible.

It is very hard having JWs in the family. They are family and you care about them, but this issue of blood and letting children die has caused my family unbelievable hearbreak and arguing over the years. We were not even allowed by the JW elders to have custody of my niece if her parents died, as they wanted her raised with strangers (I mean not family) who were JWs. My Mum particularly was very upset re this as it was her only grandchild at the time. My Mum also said, and JWs advertise this, that they have to follow the law like everybody else, and if we took it to court & a judge ruled otherwise, they must follow that ruling. And yes I do believe they are just a bit too fanatical about religion and other things. When it comes to children's lives, we need objective, down to earth people with and without medical knowledge who can rule over the child's life.

There is a lot people really need to look into re this religion, for example, one JW girl was living at home cos she went out on a date with a non-JW guy, & her father threw her out the house & wouldn't speak to her. This girl only went to the cinema, did not have sex, etc, but the father didn't believe her.

My own niece told her parents she didn't really want to follow the JWs when she got older, & she was thrown out of the house. She had to walk IN THE DARK over the other side of town to her grandmas to get a bed and shelter etc and stayed there. She never went back home again, & no she wasn't being promiscuous or anything like that.

If my niece didn't have grandparents in the same town she should have had nowhere to go.

So much for being religious and being forgiving of sin!

Well that is my piece said.

[OCNRN63, RN]

Hey all. I finally heard back from my brother who is an elder with the Jehovahs Witnesses.

He said in this particular scenario (if we have been given all the correct information), it is generally up to the conscious of the individual, but they can have a meeting with the elders to decide. I've known some JW nurses and they try not to work in these areas, but from what my brother told me, JW nurses are not supposed to be involved with anything to do with blood. It's a tricky quesion by the sounds of it. Same with abortion for example (but then that raises other questions, ie: should a JW nurse care for a patient who is going to have an abortion, or care for one that has had one?) But they do believe in medical intervention. They just don't let any blood or blood products into their body.

JWs are hard workers, and I've never had a problem with JW nurses. Half the time u don't even know they ARE a JW.

I've worked with nurses who were Christians who wouldn't look after patients who were going to have abortions, and nobody seems to mind too much though it does p**s me off when it's busy, I must admit.

But look up their website for info if you need it http://www.watchtower.org/

Also look at the websites for disfellowshipped JWs (the ones who got kicked out either temporarily or permanently), or just type in 'ex JWs'.

I didn't like the society after a while (though I knew some good people in it), because even if a baby or young child needs blood, they will let them die before they let anybody medical touch them, and then these children are hailed as martyrs in their magazines and website. This caused a huge ruckus in our family, cos my Mum said when my niece was little, (her parents are my brother who is a JW) they said they would let her die if ever she needed blood/blood products. My Mum said she would fight it all the way to our supreme court & would sue for custody. She said she would even snatch her one day if she had to, that is how bad it got. And yes it IS different when it's your own family member, and that family member is an innocent baby or child.

I spoke to one woman who left the JWs who let her child die rather than have a blood transfusion, and she said she was bullied into it by the elders there and some of the elders wives. So she left, couldn't have anymore children, and told me she will regret it for the rest of her life. It was a very heartwrenching story to listen to.

And as far as I know JWs don't even use autologous blood and to me that is just plain misinterpretation of the bible (if you believe in it).

To me, and THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION, I could not let that any baby/child die.

I don't care what anyone's religion is, we HAVE to follow the law as nurses and letting someone a child etc die is just plain wrong, because children don't understand the religion or all the implications involved, and cannot make informed choices for themselves. And parents should not be allowed to make decisions re life and death of their children re blood, a judge or supreme court or another separate body should have to intervene by law.

JWs have also changed many of their so called rules throughout the years, I think this one re blood will change, if not in it's entirety maybe it will become more flexible.

It is very hard having JWs in the family. They are family and you care about them, but this issue of blood and letting children die has caused my family unbelievable hearbreak and arguing over the years. We were not even allowed by the JW elders to have custody of my niece if her parents died, as they wanted her raised with strangers (I mean not family) who were JWs. My Mum particularly was very upset re this as it was her only grandchild at the time. My Mum also said, and JWs advertise this, that they have to follow the law like everybody else, and if we took it to court & a judge ruled otherwise, they must follow that ruling. And yes I do believe they are just a bit too fanatical about religion and other things. When it comes to children's lives, we need objective, down to earth people with and without medical knowledge who can rule over the child's life.

There is a lot people really need to look into re this religion, for example, one JW girl was living at home cos she went out on a date with a non-JW guy, & her father threw her out the house & wouldn't speak to her. This girl only went to the cinema, did not have sex, etc, but the father didn't believe her.

My own niece told her parents she didn't really want to follow the JWs when she got older, & she was thrown out of the house. She had to walk IN THE DARK over the other side of town to her grandmas to get a bed and shelter etc and stayed there. She never went back home again, & no she wasn't being promiscuous or anything like that.

If my niece didn't have grandparents in the same town she should have had nowhere to go.

So much for being religious and being forgiving of sin!

Well that is my piece said.

The topic was working was a JW in a critical care unit; not your personal beefs with the religion.

[carolmaccas66, BSN, RN]

Since that is the case, I would urge any of you interested in knowing the TRUTH about what this religion believes and how it may impact the job performance of a nurse, to do research and speak to those actual members of the faith instead of relying on disgruntled former members or those merely THINK they know what they are talking about.

I do know what I am talking about. I have a JW elder brother whom I am in regular communication with, and I ask him re many different issues. I also studied with the JWs for many years. They also still come round and drop off their magazines, which I read occasionally when I get time and I still chat to them re different issues.

Just so you know we are not all disgruntled, bitter people. I don't care what religion people follow. I would encourage anyone to stand up for their beliefs (religious or otherwise), and know nurses who have done this and have admired them for it.

We are just trying to get the OP to think through ALL the differing scenarios and not always let religion get in the way of excellent patient care. This is what comes with good critical, clinical judgement and maturity of years in nursing. I don't think she will come back though, she's had enough and has been scared off maybe. But she should read all the posts, as there are many differing points of view for critical thinking (part of a nurses veryday job).

I don't really understand why people want to be nurses if they don't want to do all the duties required, or if it interferes with their life. They should really be choosing another profession, as some JWs I've known have not become nurses due to the blood issue. It is a huge, HUGE big issue for them.

That's why I put down the JW website for others to look at http://www.watchtower.org/ but do also research the websites of people who have left or been disfellowshipped for various reasons. Some of their stories will open your eyes, and make you think twice.