IV Phenergan and Toradol "Push"

Specialties Emergency

Published

Just thought I would bring a recent experience up for discussion:

29 May I end up in ER w/24 hours of extreme chills (long sleeve T-shirt, PJs, 2 blankets, quilt and down sleeping bag), intermittent, transient bone and joint pain, nausea and vomiting. I was given an IV set near the base of the thumb for fluids and then an IV "push" of phenergan and toradol at the site of the IV set rather than up the line where it would have been somewhat diluted. As a 30 year Crohn's disease patient I have had PLENTY of IV and IM phenergan and demerol w/o any discomfort or problems. But this one BURNED and HURT! The nurse continued the "push" and explained that it was the phenergan. I didn't really believe this given my previous experiences and assumed it was really the toradol as that was my first experience with it. The pain and burning only lasted a few minutes after the "push".

I had no swelling of the hand or arm, no pain, no redness for several days. Long enough that I never even thought of the IV push when I began with a bruised type feeling on the inside of the arm just above the wrist and the outside of the arm 1/2 below the elbow. Several days after that I did notice a hard stretch of vein about 3/4" long 1/2 way below the elbow on the outside of the arm. Later a "bump" at the wrist, still later another 3/4" hard stretch of vein just above and a little to the outside of the bump. And then a 1/2" hard spot in the vein below the base of the thumb at the wrist. It finally occured to me that this was probably the result of the IV push but since there was no redness, no swelling, no tenderness unless I kept poking the areas I didn't bother seeing a doctor about it. (Heaven knows I see him enough as it is, bless his heart!).

21 July the "bump" at the wrist turned red and was tender. Hot compresses did nothing for it that evening nor the next morning. My family doctor isn't in the office on Fridays and I figured the ER IV push was the cause so I went to ER. I was told it was "just" superficial thrombophlebits that could take as much as 6 months to resolve and was about to be released (which was ok with me as long as the doctors weren't concerned). But the "lead" ER doctor came in, first time I had seen her, and she said she would feel more comfortable ordering a venous ultrasound before I was released as she had had 2 STs go "sour" on her in the previous 3 months. I didn't have a problem with that so of course I agreed. What the heck, she was the doctor.

Ha! Turns out I had a deep vein thrombosis in the axillary vein in that upper arm! You could have floored me!! I ended up being admitted and given IV heparin drip and oral coumadin. Upon release 3 days later I had to agree to daily blood draws which was a cheap price to pay to be released from the hospital since I didn't feel sick and didnt hurt.

I've since been reading up on STs and DVT and realize my part in letting things go so far. However, I've found quite a bit of controversey on IV phenergan (and also demerol). The Infusion Nurses Society Standard # 43 specifically states phenergan should NOT be given IV due to its PH and potential for harm.

Frankly, given my experience thru the years and the blessing that IV and IM phenergan (and demerol) has been I would hate to see its use be discontinued. However, this was the first and only time phenergan was ever administered IV that close to the IV set instead of up the line where it gets diluted w/the IV fluids.

I'd be interested in your thoughts and experiences on this event and the use and method of administering IV phenergan. Mind you, my mother worked at this hospital all the while I was growing up, other than Mayo Clinic it is the only hospital I have ever gone to (altho we have another in town) and I've been volunteering here for several years in Endoscopy or Messenger Service. I'm not looking to cause any trouble and I know my ER nurse from previous encounters in the cafeteria and elsewhere at the hospital and he is a fine and conscientious nurse. He was marvelous when my brother in law was brought in with an AAA.

Ya just gotta love those people who know their way around a bulletin board! :kiss

So, those of you who haven't checked it out, check it out! It is good.

steph

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
You will stir up BIG controversy here, I am afraid......we have gone round and round about it before on these boards. By corporate policy (with some darn good reason, I think--based on some good evidence Phenergan with it's pH of like 1.9, does harm to veins) we are not allowed to give Phenergan IV, diluted or otherwise, to anyone at my hospital. I believe the IV Nurse's Association also stated some place it should never be given IV too.....but I am not a member, so I am just reaching here. Anyhow, where I work for over a year now.....

Actually, I totally agree. I've been asking my facility to stop the practice of iv phenergan for some time, so far without success. I don't really like phenergan because I don't think it's all that effective with nausea, and it makes some patients really crazy (or non-responsive). I work at a very small, very rural ER though, and I doubt we will ever go a medication as expensive (although effective) as zofran.

What drugs are your ERs using in place of phenergan?

Specializes in Emergency.

My prefered method of giving IV phenergan, as it gets ordered daily several times a day in ER, is to dilute it as much as possible. Fortunately the typical pt is dehydrated and is getting some type of fluid bolus. SO I just place it in the bolus fluid, ie if a 250 cc bolus is ordered it goes in that amt. If no bolus it gets diluted in at least 10cc of saline more if the pt is one who can tolerate more.

Rj:rolleyes:

Specializes in ER, ICU, Infusion, peds, informatics.

just wanted to clarify---

according to infusion nurse society, it is acceptable to give phenergan iv through a central line (picc, ij, port, whatever). just like tpn, though for a different reason (tpn it is the osmolality that is too high to go peripheral; phenergan it is the ph that is too low to be given pheripheral).

i, too, have been trying to get my hospital to stop allowing phenergan to be given through pivs, without success. and it is given so often in the er i sometimes work in that it really makes me uncomfortable. most of the nurses i work with there give it undiluted, too. i almost always give it in a 50 or 100 cc bag of ns, unless there are fluids running. in that case i dilute it and give it real slow through the highest port.

knowing what i know, i don't think i would let anyone give it to me ivp. i'd rather have it im, even though it hurts.

The protocol at the emergency room I work in, requires us to dilute phenergan in 100ml NS bag and infuse in 10-15 minutes. It states that diluting in 10ml alone is not enough. I agree with many of you, phenergan does have too many side effects and is going out of favor. Good luck to you and I am sorry this happened.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
just wanted to clarify---

according to infusion nurse society, it is acceptable to give phenergan iv through a central line (picc, ij, port, whatever). just like tpn, though for a different reason (tpn it is the osmolality that is too high to go peripheral; phenergan it is the ph that is too low to be given pheripheral).

i, too, have been trying to get my hospital to stop allowing phenergan to be given through pivs, without success. and it is given so often in the er i sometimes work in that it really makes me uncomfortable. most of the nurses i work with there give it undiluted, too. i almost always give it in a 50 or 100 cc bag of ns, unless there are fluids running. in that case i dilute it and give it real slow through the highest port.

knowing what i know, i don't think i would let anyone give it to me ivp. i'd rather have it im, even though it hurts.

thank you for that clarification. i am glad someone came and got me straight---i should have qualifed, no peripheral iv phenergan, that is what our policy states.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
You will stir up BIG controversy here, I am afraid......we have gone round and round about it before on these boards. By corporate policy (with some darn good reason, I think--based on some good evidence Phenergan with it's pH of like 1.9, does harm to veins) we are not allowed to give Phenergan IV, diluted or otherwise, to anyone at my hospital. I believe the IV Nurse's Association also stated some place it should never be given IV too.....but I am not a member, so I am just reaching here. Anyhow, where I work for over a year now.....

Actually, I totally agree. I've been asking my facility to stop the practice of iv phenergan for some time, so far without success. I don't really like phenergan because I don't think it's all that effective with nausea, and it makes some patients really crazy (or non-responsive). I work at a very small, very rural ER though, and I doubt we will ever go a medication as expensive (although effective) as zofran.

What drugs are your ERs using in place of phenergan?

Anzemet mostly.

I give phenergan routinely IV at work. I am very sensitive to how much it hurts, because I have had phlebitis due to undiluted phenergan IV push myself. I usualld dilute it in 19 cc NS (draw it up in a 20 cc syringe). Then I connect the 20 cc syringe to the piggyback port on our IV pumps and run it at a rate of 300 cc/hr which works out to be 5 minutes. I've never had a pt complain when I use this method. I just kind of came up with it on my own, most other nurses tell me its "too much work" to just give an IV push. But whatever.

Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.

Phenergan is IV in many places and does burn like the dickens. It can also seriously damage veins.

I have never known Toradol to do so.

If you had phenergan for nausea, perhaps better bet would be a 5HT drug like zofran, anzemet or kytril.

At my hospital when you are giving phenergan iv the mars says please dilute in 5-10cc of normal saline.

melissa

Specializes in Nurse Manager, Labor and Delivery.

Many moons ago, there was a phenergan that was oil based and not for IV use...DEEP IM ONLY. Then, the IV version came out. We use it, but our hospital policy states that it must be diluted in at least 20cc and given over 20mins. We just put it in a 100cc mini bag and run it in over 30mins. We don't use it so much anymore, now that anzimet has come to light, but some docs still hold out.

I have had toradol IVP and it didn't bother me, and I haven't had any complaints.

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