It Seems Like It's Student Nurses vs The Nursing Staff

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I'm currently in the clinical portion of my nursing program and I have a question for the nurses. We're there to help them and learn and 90% of the time we get brushed off. I've had several experiences with this as have other students in my class. At a LTC facility we were told by the Nursing Manager that the staff loved having nurses and when we got on the floor they treated us like garbage. For example there was an aide that needed help getting a patient into bed and I offered because there was no one else around and she tells me that she doesn't want to break her back for me to get experience. Mind you I had worked in a hospital previously and had lift training so I know how to properly lift a patient. I tell her that I know how so she reluctantly lets me help her. Well when we lift the patient she does nothing so I'm strugling to keep the patient up as she tells me what to do. This patient weighed over 200 lbs. When I set the patient in the bed she grabs her legs an throws them up on the bed and says to me that's why I wanted someone who knew what they were doing. I thought to myself you let go and you're the one who didn't to break your back but I guess getting my back broke is ok because I'm just a student.

Right now we are currently in a hospital annd it's the same thing. The Nurse Manager comes in during orientation and tells us how the staff loves the students. We get on the floor and they won't let us do things that were allowed to even when we ask, if we tell them a patient needs something they look at us like we're from another planet, and we've asked them to let us do procedures that we need for check-offs and they do them anyways. We've been yelled at by the unit coordinator on several occasions for talking by her when we were getting our room assignments of the grease board and several nurses have told us not to bother the patients because we've gone to them to tell them that the patients need something. The only time they love us is when there short staffed and they need vital signs on their patients or someone needs to be cleaned up which we don't mind doing but if they have an accucheck or a IV d/c then they have no time for us. The floor we're currently on now has 4 out of 12 nurses that actually treat us like equals and are willing to show us things. It just seems to me that these nurses have forgotten what it's like to be in school and the things that are required of you in the clinical setting to pass. They also have forgotten that these nursing students that they are treating so badly could possibly be co-workers in a few months.

So the question is why do nurses treat students this way? We are there to help and I know that not every nurse is this way but it gives not only a bad impression of how the profession is but also how these facilities are representd.

Somehow this turned into a rant. If you read this far thanks.

Specializes in Post Anesthesia.

I'm sorry the staff are less than helpful in your clinicls. Keep in mind they are there to care for the patient not to be your instructor. If you find ways to be an asset to the unit the nurses will have more time to help you learn the job. Personally I love having students on my unit. The ones I have a problem with are the students who won't help bathe, bedpan, turn etc. The "I've already been checked off on baths" attitude sometimes gives all students a bad name. I do wish the instructor would make an appearance now and then. It sometimes seems as if they drop off the students and run for the door. The next time you see them is at the end of shift for "post conf." I don't work for the University and sometimes don't have time to do thier job and mine too.

Specializes in CCRN-CMC-CSC: CTICU, MICU, SICU, TRAUMA.
Whew! I feel like we've been reprimanded by the Miss Manners of Nursing ;).

Actually my post wasn't addressing manners, it was addressing patient safety.

Specializes in Ortho, Case Management, blabla.
Actually my post wasn't addressing manners, it was addressing patient safety.

I think your sarcasm-o-meter is broken.

Specializes in DOU.

Last semester, I worked in a hospital where the nursing staff basically ignored me. I didn't really mind too much; I just went about my business and made sure to choose patients that required the kind of care I needed to become skilled in. Towards the end of the semester (once the nurses began to trust that I wasn't an absolute idiot), they did approach me a couple of times to see if I wanted to try something new. Overall, I had no real complaints.

This semester, I am in a new hospital, and the nurses are GREAT! They really act like mentors, and I am so glad, because this is the hospital I want to work in when I am done with school. I really can't believe the difference between these hospitals.

yes, he had some neuro issues, he could stand but not really ambulate, but he had full arm mobility and normal arm strength... but I suppose a zippy scooter would come in handy and make life easier for the staff...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3964056&dopt=AbstractPlus

hey novice to expert, i looked into this (just a little cause I'm sleepy), but this article might have some good info on levels of quadraplegia and equipment some patients might require to maximize their quality of life. I don't think a scooter is entirely unreasonable for a patient who has a sci, but has a high level of functioning. If he can do many things on his own, but not ambulate independently, I think a scooter could prevent him from experiencing disuse of partially working muscle groups.

Also, I'm pretty new to practice myself, and a self-proclaimed "by the booker"--and thus far, any day a patient--or multiple patients--of mine is/are suffering from acute conditions that require more of my attention, my documentation is always a bit--untidy. Every day I wonder how I can do my job better, and every day I learn something new and helpful, and everyday I go back and am challenged with something new. If you really have the ability to master all your prioritization, get it right every time, and document to perfection, well, kudos.

sorry to be slightly off topic, so i WILL say to the OP--when you are working with nurses on the floor, listen to your interpersonal intuition. If you feel bad because a nurse might have rubbed you the wrong way, didn't say what you wanted to hear, or even snapped at you because he/she was stressed out, well, that's life. Stand up for yourself when you feel you need to, or let it go when it just can be let gone...

If, however, someone says something or does something that you are unable to get out of your mind--that gives you goosebumps, or makes your eyes burn--perhaps that person has gone over the line, and I advise you try to distance yourself asap, and report it immediately to your clinical instructor. You know the difference between "stressed snapping" and "personality disorder snapping"--and you will be ok.

Smiles your way,

Kan

Specializes in CCRN-CMC-CSC: CTICU, MICU, SICU, TRAUMA.

yes, he had some neuro issues, he could stand but not really ambulate, but he had full arm mobility and normal arm strength... but I suppose a zippy scooter would come in handy and make life easier for the staff...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3964056&dopt=AbstractPlus

hey novice to expert, i looked into this (just a little cause I'm sleepy), but this article might have some good info on levels of quadraplegia and equipment some patients might require to maximize their quality of life. I don't think a scooter is entirely unreasonable for a patient who has a sci, but has a high level of functioning. If he can do many things on his own, but not ambulate independently, I think a scooter could prevent him from experiencing disuse of partially working muscle groups.

Also, I'm pretty new to practice myself, and a self-proclaimed "by the booker"--and thus far, any day a patient--or multiple patients--of mine is/are suffering from acute conditions that require more of my attention, my documentation is always a bit--untidy. Every day I wonder how I can do my job better, and every day I learn something new and helpful, and everyday I go back and am challenged with something new. If you really have the ability to master all your prioritization, get it right every time, and document to perfection, well, kudos.

sorry to be slightly off topic, so i WILL say to the OP--when you are working with nurses on the floor, listen to your interpersonal intuition. If you feel bad because a nurse might have rubbed you the wrong way, didn't say what you wanted to hear, or even snapped at you because he/she was stressed out, well, that's life. Stand up for yourself when you feel you need to, or let it go when it just can be let gone...

If, however, someone says something or does something that you are unable to get out of your mind--that gives you goosebumps, or makes your eyes burn--perhaps that person has gone over the line, and I advise you try to distance yourself asap, and report it immediately to your clinical instructor. You know the difference between "stressed snapping" and "personality disorder snapping"--and you will be ok.

Smiles your way,

Kan

Hey Kan, Thanks for the article... I'll pull the full text from pub-med. I do submit that regardless of the pt's condition and equipment the NPs response was wayyyyyy out of line and inappropriate. She was actually hired by my university after this event although students were interviewed. The program didn't listen to our feedback from having been on clinical with her. There were plenty of incidents other than mine. Incidentallly, she was fired within a year after this incident...after some pretty serious maneuvers with students at the facility.

Second, I am by no means perfect and my charting lags behind as well when it is out prioritized... But when I do have a second to get to it, I do use the scoring tools correctly. So if my post came off that I was claiming to be a newbie master air-traffic controller nurse genius that certainly was not the intention.

There's a way to teach that is productive. Some nurses have no interest in teaching new nurses. Fine. Keep them away from young nurses...they are detrimental.

The OP was about students vs. staff... I chimed in to offer my experiences from when I was a student and offered how the vibe doesn't magically disappear after you get your RN. I've had some commentary regarding this and have responded in this thread where perhaps it should be a new thread on the topic of first-second year nurses shortly after orientation. So I also apologize to the OP if I've pulled this off track.

The way I see it is we are all climbing the same mountain and I hope all have the same mission in mind... safe patient care, best practice and optimal outcomes. All I'm saying is that the culture from the top down on many units, in my experience, interferes with these goals. It has to change. But it won't change until the bad apple senior nurses get on board with the problem, which I am seeing is not likely to happen. This seems evident in the tone of posts in many threads throughout the site.

Specializes in Trauma ICU,ER,ACLS/BLS instructor.
I do agree with you... and I do believe if anyone isn't part of the solution then they are part of the problem. Baby steps make big change... and being a change agent is imperative... so your suggestions are well accepted. I know the onus of change is incumbent on me as well. And I also acknowledge, as said in other responses, that this is all a symptom of a poor system. I do also acknowlege that some students have horrendous attitudes and shouldn't be in nursing from how they behave either. So, it certainly goes both ways. I haven't complained about my issues at work because I try to be positive when at work and leave my personal issues behind and do the best with the situation at hand. So I am glad to have found allnurses.com so I can anonymously vent and not add fuel to the fire on my unit. Management is hoping to change the culture on my unit and has told me it is the new group of nurses that are going to help with that. We'll see how it goes... but everyone, including management, and me, is aware that this is going to be a long process. As mentioned previously, my unit is known as the pit by other units, which is why they have so many openings and half the unit, at least, is agency. I'm going to stick it out, for a while at least, hold my standard, and try to work with rather than against the problems. But thanks for the reminder...it is much appreciated.

Anytime. Believe me I have been where u right now. Try to go in and do ur thing and not contribute to the negative things going on. Stick by ur guns and continue doing the right thing. Many times in the past, I have been the one to break the "chain" of unacceptable behavior and practice. It has not always been easy, and I have been kicked a few times. But in the end, as long as u know ur practice is professional, and the patient and family comes first,nothing else matters. Good luck and let us know how u do!

Specializes in Cardiac Care, ICU.
Your story is all too familiar. You are by no means alone. This behavior says more about the nurses you have been in contact with than it does about you!

When I was a student, not too long ago, I did my preplanning for a patient with quadriplegia. I was intimidated because I knew this acuity would require a lot of care and I was at the beginning of my junior year as a BSN. I arrived on the unit, did the usual things, then went to the patient's room, who was at this point standing in front of the mirror combing his hair.

Okay... hmmmmm... So I go back to the desk, as a student I had to get a nurse to let me into the computer again. I recheck active conditions... quadriplegia! I go back in the room, have the patient identify himself... What am I gonna do, right? So I go back to the NP running the unit and ask about this, stating that the patient is quadriplegic but has mobility of all four extremitites... She, in front of my peers, the staff, and my professor threw her hand up in a "stop" gesture and stated... "Look buddy... there are different levels of quadriplegia... you wouldn't understand... just worry about passing your NCLEX right now!" Wow... @&*$#&%&* !!!!!

Of course my professor didn't stand up for me. Nor other staff. So I was left to care for this "quadriplegic." I went to the hospital's medical library to make sure I wasn't crazy. As it turns out, I astutely noticed he had a brand new top-of-the-line several thousand dollar zippy scooter that just came in (he is a permanent resident of this faciliity by the way, fully covered)... yes, he had some neuro issues, he could stand but not really ambulate, but he had full arm mobility and normal arm strength... but I suppose a zippy scooter would come in handy and make life easier for the staff... and I really don't think (wink) those are covered by insurance without the appropriate diagnosis coding... hmmmm.... guadriplegia.... scooter.... cool....

If that's what goes on in that unit/hospital that's none of my business... but a student never should have even been assigned that patient. I thought about reporting it up the chain but was afraid to cause problems for my school. Talk about reality shock!

This doesn't change when you graduate, by the way. I have racked up a good chunk of hideous experiences like the one I relayed, like the one you relayed, etc. The criteria for bullying includes belittling a colleague or student. It's that simple. Some people just don't get it and never will.

The question is how do you buffer yourself and let yourself get through school without being a basket case by the end. You have to share your stories with peers and get the reinforcement that it is not about you.

It's a real challenge when you have a real clinical issue to handle and you have to report something. In those instances you cannot ignore an issue or blend into the wallpaper. For example... I had, also junior year, an assignment in the nursery. My charted baby girl had a member! True story... Baby Girl So-and-So... had not only a member but descended testicles... absolutely non-ambiguous!!! By this point I thought the nurses were setting me up. But no... it was a real error. But what did I know... I was just a junior nursing student saving the hospital from multi-million dollar lawsuits.

You are in a short while going to have a pocketful of experiences where you know you made a difference. And you will have those to fall back on, to bolster your confidence that you are a valuable and competent participant. As those build up it will be easier to blow off these other events. Mark Twain said "Never let what you know to be embarrassed by what you don't know!" He meant that you'll never know everything... but you do know something... and when you know your facts and you are right... have confidence in that and don't doubt yourself.

If you are lucky you'll have some good experiences thrown in to.

Just be careful who you vent to, that can come back and bite you as well. Sometimes suggestions even to your school will not be welcome. And you will have, more than likely, issues that come up with school faculty similar to hospital staff on rotations.

When you start working full-time you'll also find that the better you do your job the more problems you'll have. You'll hear jokes like "How can you tell the new nurse?... She's the one with scissors in her pocket!" But then they'll be the first to ask you for them when they are unprepared. If you designate your patient a fall risk as per protocol, get the bracelet and coded socks, then you'll be told your "fixating on the wrong things." Don't let that stop you. Don't end up three years from now answering to a judge as to why the patient wasn't properly designated a fall risk when there is a lawsuit over a broken hip during a hospital stay.

You are going to see a mind-boggling number of mistakes, a disgusting ratio of uncompassionate nurses, and you will wonder why still show up. But still show up. Students have a huge amount of stress because when you see stuff like this, there's nothing you can do... it's out of your jurisdiction so to speak... so you have no control. That's why mid-level executives are more stresses than high-level executives... they have less control over the outcomes... but still have high responsibility... and it is a very difficult combination to negotiate.

Best of luck to you... and if you have any questions feel free to contact me at any time in the future... I for one would be more than happy to give you my support.

Novice, looking at this and your other post in the new nurses in ICU thread, You have had some really bad experiences. I wander if they were at the same institution? If so you may be working at a "sick" hospital. While there will always be a certain number of experienced nurses that try to make others look stupid in order to show eveyone how "smart" they are, there are those of us who really like to teach new nurses and look foreward to nurturing the next generation. I know that the negative nurses are a minority on my unit but I have also known units where they out numbered the good nurses.

All I can say is try to be pleasant to the mean nurses, it may make them look at their own behavior and it won't help for you to fight fire w/ fire. they have been their longer than you and have more practice at it. Then, while they aren't looking, quietly take over the place by helping the new nurses and helping to raise a new generation of helpful nurses!

Good luck!

Specializes in Cardiac Care, ICU.
Being that nursing is still predominenty a female profession alot is explained in this alone. Woman are horrible to woman. I have never understood the reason why, but it is what it is. Hence the shortage of nurses. MAny coming into the profession will not tolerate how they are treated and either leave or go on to other areas. Lateral work violence is currently a "hot topic". I have seen it and experienced it. Until institutions take this on and make it unexceptable,it will always be. I always take the approach of hitting it head on. When u feel this from staff,ask them nicely and quietly if they have a problem with u. Most of the time, people back down if approached in the right way.It does not just happen to students. Taking a new job,changing shifts.....it is everywhere. Good luck and please do not let the few discourage you. Most of us are realy nice and willing to help and be mentors!

I have to disagree w/ you about the nastiness being b/c women dominate the field. The worst work experience I have had was when I first started ICU. the night shift was primarily men and they were the most negative, backbiting, sniping, "I'm better than you" group of nurses I have ever worked w/. I made them take me off of orientation early b/c I couldn't stand the attitude of the guy that was orienting me. My unit has had a complete turn around since. I think part of the reason is that there is more of a male/female mix on both shifts now. People don't get stuck in one way of thinking about things. (IMO)

I have to agree with Tweetie.

We are polite to our students but lately we've getting students with major attitudes. We are almost at the point where we will not be accepting students on the unit.

The instructor is responsible for picking the assignments and somehow we've wound up with some bedblockers due to a shortage of nursing home beds. Who do the instructors pick time after time for their students (and usually the ones who didn't do to well in their LTC rotation), yup the bedblockers. Their surgical wounds have long since healed so they are LTC patients, bathe, toilet, help with ADLs. The problem is once the students leave, the floor staff can't do one on one care and jump every time the call bell rings. The families of these patients want us to jump but you know what SURGICAL patients on a Surgical unit need our attention immediately, not the bedblockers.

We've also had students be rude to unit clerks, our NA's and several have said they don't want to be buddied with PNs. If you are assigned a patient that is being cared for by a PN that is who your buddy is.

Our manager has even asked the instructors to tell the students that the limited seats in report are for her staff and if there are extras then the students can have them. But we wind up standing. We are on mandatory overtime and often wind up working 16 hour shifts to come back 8 hours later for our next scheduled shift, so we really do need the chairs.

Being a clinical instructor, I can tell you that this a bad clinical instructor more than bad students. I spend time the first day of clinicals letting my students know what I expect from them behaviorly. I will not tolerate rudeness to any staff member and, while some here have said for the students to stand up to the staff, I tell mine to bring problems to me. I don't want them getting into a confrontation that can get them kicked out of school. I will confront staff who are rude to my students. I also tell them where to sit so they aren't blocking staff seats and we don't use the staff breakroom. As far as the patients the instuctor is choosing, she is providing a poor experience for her students if she is not giving them a variety of pts. to take care of. You should speak to your manager and she should have a talk the instructor.

I know that we shouldn't think that the nurses are greatful that we are there. Everytime we've had a problem with staff we tell the instructor and she says that she'll take care of it. They have also seen this happen to us and have come to our defense when this happens. The way I see it though is that even if we were a co worker and this happened we shouldn't run to the higher ups to complain about every single thing. I'm more than willing to stand up for myself and have but it's a double edge sword you stand up for yourself they're even nastier and then they turn around and report you to their manager about how the students are being rude to the staff (this has happened in the past to several students).

As for the clinical sites in Tampa yes there are alot but I'm currently in a LPN program so the RN programs have first pick then us and several hospials won't allow us to do clinicals because "there's no need to allow them to train at our facility if we don't hire them when they're licensed" (at least that's what we've been told). I'll just be glad when I can start my RN program and go to different facilities.

Tampa, go through your instructor if you are having a problem w/ a staff member. If your program has as much problem finding clinical sites as you say, it would not go well for you to have a confrontation w/ a staff member of one of those hard fought for sites. I know this is grossly unfair but it is reality. Be bigger than the mean nurses, you will be a better nurse for it.

Specializes in Trauma acute surgery, surgical ICU, PACU.

As a nurse who is RESPONSIBLE for getting all the patient care done, it can be really, really stressful and taxing to supervise and teach newbies. The attitudes you describe from the nurses happen in places where the nurses do not have enough support and resources in their own jobs... it takes ENERGY and TIME to deal with students. Some units, the nurses do not have those two things. That is "about" the health of the unit as a workplace, not about the students or you personally. So try not to take it too much to heart.

IMO, none of this is stuff you should be dealing with - your instructor should be dealing with it, by talking to the nurses, talking to their manager, or by acting as an intermediary so you don't have to deal with the nurses as much. Your instructor is really the one responsible for teaching and supervising.

I had a bad time with a bunch of students once on our trauma/surg unit because the instructor wasn't very good at supervising and teaching... it can be very hard for an instructor to do all that for all the students, depending on how big your group is. So we would continually go check on our pt's and find the students "muddling through" a bath or turn, find IV meds still dripping slowly through three hours later, Meds not given anywhere near on time while the students were "being shy" and hiding by "helping each other" do one simple bath... that kind of thing. It got very frustrating.

If your instructor isn't dealing with it, contact the person in charge of the course at your school.

I have seen some cases where students were not placed on a unit again after students gave the place a bad evaluation.

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