Is it true that a BSN will be mandatory soon?

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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An instructor of mine (I'm in another state) stated that she recently went to a national educators conference and that they were saying that within the next several years in NY it would be mandatory to have your BSN. Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks

look at RN's and how ADN's often look at BSN's. What do they all have in common?
Excuse me. I take offense to this statement as ADN's and BSN's are both Registered Nurses (RN's). BSN's are not superior to ADN's in the workforce - PERIOD. Please restrain yourself from referring to LPN's and ADN's in the same scenario next time. An LPN is an LPN, and ADN is an RN. A BSN is not "over" both types of nurses. ADN's and BSN's are collegues and equals in the field. You KNOW this - you're an ASN RN are you not (looked at your profile. ;))?

The 'BSN is higher than thou' attitude encouraged by many BSN Programs is just plain wrong IMO (and really irritates me to no end). The superiority complex perpetuated by many 4-year programs simply needs to stop. We are all in this together!

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Specializes in ER/SURGICAL ICU/PACU/MEDICAL ICU.
Excuse me. I take offense to this statement as ADN's and BSN's are both Registered Nurses (RN's). BSN's are not superior to ADN's in the workforce - PERIOD. Please restrain yourself from referring to LPN's and ADN's in the same scenario next time. An LPN is an LPN, and ADN is an RN. A BSN is not "over" both types of nurses. ADN's and BSN's are collegues and equals in the field. You KNOW this - you're an ASN RN are you not (looked at your profile. ;))?

The 'BSN is higher than thou' attitude encouraged by many BSN Programs is just plain wrong IMO (and really irritates me to no end). The superiority complex perpetuated by many 4-year programs simply needs to stop. We are all in this together!

The person you quoted was not intending her comment to be one of insulting nature. The person you quoted was in fact standing up for the very thing which you believe in, tyour belief being that both ADN and BSN nurses at the end of the day are both RN's over anything else. Relax, we are all in this together, precious.

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Sorry. Must have misunderstood.

I just get so entirely fed up with this discussion.

No one is better than the other.

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An excellent point about who "brings in the money". Doctors do bring patients into hospitals thus allowing hospitals to bill for services. It's no different than a stockbroker or real estate person "getting the hot lead", forming a business relationship, and either selling the person something or providing a service that can be billed for. In all these cases a "billable event" has been created, and who ever "brought in the client" and caused a money making opportunity to transpire, is entitled to "a slice of the pie"- they get compensated for generating revenue. I've seen profit sharing plans offered to recruit new physicians (this seems to be a fairly common perk, get that monster bonus at the end of the year) but have never seen this for RNs. Opening nurse run clinics may be an option. We could bill physicians and insurance companies to "safely house" their patients and create our own billable event. This could probably be done more cheaply than what the hospitals charge, and this would be attractive to insurance companies- we could undercut the competition. Another option would be to become shareholders in our own hospital chains or individual facilities. If we have personal financial stake in how things are done (and thus the right to implement policies) and how people are compensated, we could improve not only our working conditions, but our financial bottom line as well.

Also, passing laws that are favorable to nurses and what procedures they are allowed to perform, can only improve our compensation. Recent examples of this are the emergence of NPs and CRNAs. They have more autonomy, in most cases earn more, and are gradually improving their professions, both in the awareness and recognition they receive in the "health care community" and in their ability to bill for more types of services, and in their ability to attract patients to their practices.

Believe me, there's only one reason nurses get no respect, and only one way to empower ourselves--figure out how to prove to the employers that we MAKE THEM MONEY.

Nurses have too long been going in the wrong direction based on their own feelings of worthlessness. Every single time I've seen a nurse admit that she didn't know something, she'd promptly get more education and brainwash other nurses into thinking that more education is always the answer to getting more respect.

Not in the business world, it's not. The hospitals know that DOCTORS bring in patients, not nurses, so they'll kowtow to those doctors. If nurses could bring in money, and not be seen as an expense of the organization, then nurses would be sure to be wooed by those facilities. As it is now, we're only holding our own by proving to the hospitals that nurses save lives, and therefore are necessary. But we really need to do more in the area of promoting our value in dollar-and-cents terms. Or go to independent practice.

Until then, we're just cogs in the wheel, baby.

Exactly. And you know, it's always ALL about the money. Because nurses have traditionally been so anti-money, nurses have opted themselves out of the power structure.

But there's a way in there, somewhere. And I don't believe we have to compromise patient safety to get there and stay there. Maybe nurses need to start their own facilities, or their own health-care organizations.

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I have yet to see one instance when BSN on a nametag commanded respect for and shielded disrespect and abuse from an MD, patient, or their family member.

And getting rid of ADN's, diploma RN's, and LPN's altogether? Talk about your perfect example of throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Knowledge is power and degrees can only help better oneself but the mandatory BSN requirement is by far the small bandaid on the gaping wound of nursing's problems.

Shame on New York".

If i were seeking any service (ie. nursing, medical,taxes, etc) I would want the most educated professional providing that service to help me. So, yes having a BSN does command more respect than an ADN...

Anyone that completed their A.A.S then B.S.N feels more empowered.

An increased level of education enables some RNs to function more confidently. Being confident and knowledgeable about what you are doing decreases your chances of getiing disrespected.I am not saying that the "BSN on a nametag " will prevent you from getting disrespected. Anyone including the CEO of the hospital can be disrespected by another professional, patient, or family member.

No, they are not going to get rid of them just grandfather the existing ADN and diploma RNs in. The new grads wil have up to 10 years to complete their BSN.

No, this will not affect LPNs only RNs.

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Think outside of the box please!

It is not the extra $12 a day that you are missing out on. It is the $1 x 1950hrs(average amount of hrs a full time nurse might work per year-vary by facility)=$1,950/yr x 10 yrs= $19,500 that you are missing out on . BSN+CCRN =$39,000/10yrs. But, I am sure you would rather work overtme to make up that differnce.

As a professional you should want to continue your education even if it is just getting CEUs. The hospitals reimburse you to pursue your education. If the funds are there why not use it.

While attaining my BSN my view was, my annual salary+$7,000/yr the hospital paid for me to go to school. ie. I made $70,000 + $7,000= $77,000/yr

But even we as nurses often don't value these titles behind our names. Look at how LPN/LVN's often look at RN's and how ADN's often look at BSN's. What do they all have in common?

They all say the same thing: "I do the same thing that you do and often do it just as well if not better so big deal that you have more education than I have."

Hospitals certainly do not offer much reward for attaining more education. I have no desire to become a manager of any sort and currently my hospital offers a whopping $1.00/hour for anyone getting their BSN or passing the CCRN exam.

I'm so glad that I'm going to school for another 2 years to get an extra $12 for every 12 hour shift I put in.

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The only person you might need to prove to that you are making the hospital money is yourself. Believe me the hospital knows that you are making them money.

If there aren't enough nurses or no nurses, who is going to take care of the patient? Not the MDs for sure. If we are not there to provide nursing care to the patients after the Drs bring them, then the patient will be heading out the door. The other hospital with the nurses wil be able to provide the care the patient may need for the next 10 days.

The hospital without the nurses to take care of them might get paid for 1 day while the hospital with nurses to provide care are able to charge the pt for 10 days.

We are very valuable and the hospitals know that. We just don't know how valuable we are (some of us that is).

Believe me, there's only one reason nurses get no respect, and only one way to empower ourselves--figure out how to prove to the employers that we MAKE THEM MONEY.

Nurses have too long been going in the wrong direction based on their own feelings of worthlessness. Every single time I've seen a nurse admit that she didn't know something, she'd promptly get more education and brainwash other nurses into thinking that more education is always the answer to getting more respect.

Not in the business world, it's not. The hospitals know that DOCTORS bring in patients, not nurses, so they'll kowtow to those doctors. If nurses could bring in money, and not be seen as an expense of the organization, then nurses would be sure to be wooed by those facilities. As it is now, we're only holding our own by proving to the hospitals that nurses save lives, and therefore are necessary. But we really need to do more in the area of promoting our value in dollar-and-cents terms. Or go to independent practice.

Until then, we're just cogs in the wheel, baby.

Exactly. And you know, it's always ALL about the money. Because nurses have traditionally been so anti-money, nurses have opted themselves out of the power structure.

But there's a way in there, somewhere. And I don't believe we have to compromise patient safety to get there and stay there. Maybe nurses need to start their own facilities, or their own health-care organizations.

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Specializes in Utilization Management.
The only person you might need to prove to that you are making the hospital money is yourself. Believe me the hospital knows that you are making them money.

Hospitals consider the nursing department an expense, insofar as Accounting is concerned, whereas the docs are not counted on that side of the Balance Sheet. It has nothing to do with what I wish or what I think, that is just the way we're looked at, bottom line.

Anyone that completed their A.A.S then B.S.N feels more empowered.

Not me. I will feel more empowered as a nurse when we get paid what we're worth, not when I'm forced to spend more on my education to be paid a cheap wage to work in unsatisfactory conditions.

All of you who insist that a BSN entry level will garner nurses more respect and more pay--I haven't seen the results of that yet. But suppose the hospitals paid over $5/hr more to the BSN nurse? That'd be my incentive to go back and get those 10 credits and get my BSN. Until then, nope. Not worth it, in terms of bang for my buck as a mere floor nurse.

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If i were seeking any service (ie. nursing, medical,taxes, etc) I would want the most educated professional providing that service to help me. So, yes having a BSN does command more respect than an ADN...

Anyone that completed their A.A.S then B.S.N feels more empowered.

An increased level of education enables some RNs to function more confidently. Being confident and knowledgeable about what you are doing decreases your chances of getiing disrespected.I am not saying that the "BSN on a nametag " will prevent you from getting disrespected. Anyone including the CEO of the hospital can be disrespected by another professional, patient, or family member.

No, they are not going to get rid of them just grandfather the existing ADN and diploma RNs in. The new grads wil have up to 10 years to complete their BSN.

No, this will not affect LPNs only RNs.

Grandfathering essentially is getting rid of future non-BSN nurses.

Confidence by having a BSN?

Right now I train new ICU BSN's who can't start an IV on the most healthy man with veins bulging out everywhere and when their blood pressure drops are looking at me as to what to do about it.

As far as having the most educated person, I once took a chemistry class (beginning 101 level) and had an education snob in my class who only wanted to be taught by a PhD level professor. My instructor had only a masters degree to offer. I turned to her and said "You are only taking a freshman level chemistry class so obviously you know little about the subject. A masters degree prepared teacher is not good enough for you and yet they could run circles around you in this area."

It reminded me of the family member of a patient that worked as a cashier all her life but only a BSN prerpared RN was good enough to take care of her mother.

That alone says it all.

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Excuse me. I take offense to this statement as ADN's and BSN's are both Registered Nurses (RN's). BSN's are not superior to ADN's in the workforce - PERIOD. Please restrain yourself from referring to LPN's and ADN's in the same scenario next time. An LPN is an LPN, and ADN is an RN. A BSN is not "over" both types of nurses. ADN's and BSN's are collegues and equals in the field. You KNOW this - you're an ASN RN are you not (looked at your profile. ;))?

The 'BSN is higher than thou' attitude encouraged by many BSN Programs is just plain wrong IMO (and really irritates me to no end). The superiority complex perpetuated by many 4-year programs simply needs to stop. We are all in this together!

I think that you misread what I was writing. I believe that we are on the same side.

I did not include LPN's as to say that they are the same as ADN RN's. I included them because as a former LPN myself, I often felt that they were left out in these types of discussions and they are a very important entity in these discussions because they have been told over and over about how they are going to be phased out and become aides or technicians of some sort.

It's almost 2005 and still all of us are continuing to exist (LPN, ADN, BSN, etc)

I keep waiting for someone to be phased out and it still has not happened.

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I may be clinging to this desperately, but I hope to someday see a national BSN mandate with grandfathering (using Canada's model).

I wish to see this ONLY for reasons of unity. Once all RN's are 'on the same page' educationally I hope some solidarity will follow. Now, the feuding interferes with us having one clear voice and vision for our profession, IMHO.

I'm a diploma RN but I feel it will be necessary for nurses to adopt this to save our profession...right now everybody is defining us except US.

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Specializes in ER/SURGICAL ICU/PACU/MEDICAL ICU.

Quick question for those in the know...

When will this policy, making newly hired Diploma and ADN RN's go for a BSN during a 10 year time frame, begin?

The reason I ask is because if this policy hasn't been instated yet, then most of the ADN's of today who are about to take their NCLEX or even the ones for the next few years might not have to deal with this policy and have the option of getting grandfathered in. Does anyone know exactly when this will take place? Any more specific details? Even a link to where people are getting this from would be nice...

Thanks

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