Is there still a nursing shortage?

cardiacRN2006, ADN, RN · Jan 24, 2009

The community nurse is in short supply but the trend is to make very few hires, freeze wages and benefits.

Do you need a BSN for community nursing?

inthealth · Jan 24, 2009

anything around the sacramento area that you know of???

island40 · Jan 24, 2009

AZ compact states are in the same boat- look at the number of seniors living in IA, just like AZ

inthealth · Jan 25, 2009

I know training a new grad nurse is expensive BUT the reward outweights that! all experienced nurses should help and pull the new nurses up on the ladder and just like that a chain is made and we can all help solve a problem that is affecting us directly (understaffing) I know it is easier said than done but just a thought...

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Jan 25, 2009

I know training a new grad nurse is expensive BUT the reward outweights that! all experienced nurses should help and pull the new nurses up on the ladder and just like that a chain is made and we can all help solve a problem that is affecting us directly (understaffing) I know it is easier said than done but just a thought...

I'm not sure what you mean by rewards? This is about simple economics. New grads are quite expensive to train. If hospitals can get experienced nurses instead - they can and will hire the experienced nurses. Hospitals are too short on $s right now, so they are going to trim their expenses.

inthealth · Jan 25, 2009

rewards...having more experinced nurses to fill more positions. Like I said I know it is expensive but we should all find a way to be able to train more new grads, trimming expenses shouldn't include increasing an already existing problem...

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Jan 25, 2009

I think it's a simple supply/demand & lack of capital issue.

doesdad · Jan 25, 2009

One more thought on the subject.....The new administration in Washington seems committed to the reform and expansion of the health care system in this country. I think the nursing profession is going to be even better in terms of job opportunities. Be patient.

Kabin · Jan 25, 2009

AZ Central story on new grad job finding difficulties...

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2009/01/25/20090125biz-nursing0125.html

New graduates ... are discovering that landing an entry-level nursing job has become more challenging as hospitals scale back hiring because of the recession. The slower entry-level job market is a sharp contrast to recent times, when hospitals rapidly hired new graduates to address the state's critical nursing shortage.
Some hospitals are not hiring new nurses, while others have reduced or eliminated the use of temporary or traveling nurses who once helped with the area's nursing shortage.

inthealth · Jan 25, 2009

wonderful! any good news anyone?

madwife2002, BSN, RN · Jan 25, 2009

You know if Az goes to 4:1 nursing there will be lots of jobs soon-this always happens and then it evens out the job shortage that is

pererau · Jan 25, 2009

I'm not sure what you mean by rewards? This is about simple economics. New grads are quite expensive to train. If hospitals can get experienced nurses instead - they can and will hire the experienced nurses. Hospitals are too short on $s right now, so they are going to trim their expenses.

Actually, let's do the math: If you take a nurse with 5 years experience, then you are going to have to pay a lot more because every hospital that I'm aware of uses experience to determine pay. So if we start with a hospital that starts the pay scale at 25 per hour as a nice round number. If you hire a new grad and put them through a three month (13 week) residency program, then you are going to pay them 25*36*13 or 11,700 dollars for their residency training. It can be argued that during that time, they are non-productive, as they always have a preceptor with them. This means that for one year of employment, the nurse will be paid 46,800 dollars (assuming a 36 hour week) for 9 months (39 weeks) of productive time. That comes out to 46,800/36/39 or 33.33 per productive hour for the first year.

Now I don't have any hard numbers to run with for how much money a nurse with 5 years experience makes, but based on talking to a couple of my colleagues who are in that range right now, I would say it averages between 8 and 10 dollars per hour more when you consider the yearly increases and the extra pay for certifications and BSN degrees that are common with more experience.

So that said, In the first year, you are going to be paying about 34 dollars per hour for the experienced nurse and a little over 33 for the new grad nurse. In the second year, you are going to pay 35 or 36 dollars per hour for the experienced nurse and 26 or so dollars per hour for the new nurse. Average out a two year commitment and you get about 35 dollars per hour for the experienced nurse and about 29 dollars per hour for the new nurse.

Of course, arguments can be made for why each is better for the ER as a whole - experienced nurses bring in a solid knowledge base to start with and are more likely to be able to handle stressful situations; new grads bring fresh perspective and excitement to the team and are not already set in their ways.

My particular ER has a very active residency program - 10 nurses in the last residency and 4 more in this one - and it works out quite well for the ER due to loyalty. With the exception of a handful of nurses here and there, almost every nurse that works in my ER (myself included) were products of a residency program. My preceptor had been precepted by another nurse still working there, who had been precepted by yet another nurse who is still employed there. I have found that the nurses who come and go tend to be the nurses who hired on based on their experience. Of the nurses in the last three residencies, only one has left, and that because he needed to go per diem due to school, and we had no per diem assignments.

In the end, there are advantages to both new grads and experienced nurses, and a good ER will have both, but the argument that it is too expensive to train a new grad is a shallow one indeed.