Is it still financially worth it to become CRNA?

Libby1987 · May 27, 2015

So many people go into CRNA with their eyes on the $$$ signs when you can make just as much as a NP, if you play your cards right.
And you are almost always tied to a hospital as a CRNA. Pros and cons with that. As an NP, you can leave the hospital and its politics, make good money, and have a rewarding career. That's my definition of "financially worth it". Applicants to CRNA school would drop like flies if the salary weren't so lucrative.
Plus as an RN in california you can make as much as a CRNA does, with OT.

My sister graduated with her CRNA about 13 years ago at 50ish and went straight into a partnership at approx 250K. She came from a long established PACU background. I don't know what opportunities still exist but the relationship and credibility she had established with the anesthesiology group was key. Prior to that, her income as a PACU nurse exceeded any NP salaries I've known of.

(I don't recall all of the exact figures)

Khaan · May 27, 2015

It's important that the profession receive recognition, which is in part reflected by reimbursement. Honestly though I'd just be happy to be practicing as a CRNA, so money isn't a huge deal for me.

bethanycrna · May 28, 2015

I have been a CRNA since 1982. My husband has been a CRNA since 1978. I had student loans, he didn't, because my NA program was based in an expensive private university. Student loans are a serious issue. My BIL graduated from a state university NA program with loans of $150K in 2001. As for salary, $84 an hour is top of the current CRNA pay grade in a large mid-western city. Little opportunity for overtime due to number of CRNA graduates from 5 NA in-state schools. The only way I would recommend nurse anesthesia to anyone is if he/she absolutely would/ could not be happy in any other type of nursing speciality. Becoming a CRNA is not nearly as secure and financially beneficial as it once was. Hospitals are under tremendous pressure to provide more care for less money due to the ACA. Anesthesia is being out-sourced to anesthesia managed corporations whose stated purpose is to cut prices and earn a profit. The financial picture for CRNAs will be much different in 10 years.

bethanycrna · May 28, 2015

Reply to Progressive Thinking

You have made an excellent analysis of the benefits of taking the military approach to CRNA education. Military programs are consistently the best NA programs, have full scope of practice, allow for development of an extensive network that spans the US and have unparalleled responsibility and authority for their practice.

ArrowRN, BSN, RN · Jun 4, 2015

There are a few NPs working in my ICU. I think that speaks for itself. I agree that applicants would drop like flies if it didn't pay as well as it does. People flock to money and strive for more though. It's human nature. If NP excites you, then go for it. I actually almost started an NP program. I'm not sure if I see myself enjoying the role though. As a NP, you're not very hands on, and your job is to basically listen to people's problems, and try to fix them. I listen to enough problems as a staff nurse. Anesthesia is more task-based, which I like. You preop them, intubate them, induce them, keep the pt hemodynamically stable and pain free, and then extubate. Next. I like the fact that it's a little more hands on. I think working as an NP in the ICU would be awesome, but unfortunately we only have FNP and Women's health programs locally. Clinic work just doesn't excite me. Being a guy, women's health doesn't do it for me either. I would honestly be a CRNA for the same pay if tuition weren't so high. I find it to be a lot more fascinating than being a bedside RN. If I do this CRNA thing as a civilian, I just want to be able to make sure that I can at least maintain the same standard of living while paying back my loans.

The job description you describe of CRNA is what also interests me, I am not "people person" which is why I not to keen on NP, and bedside nursing is not something I can see myself doing until I retire, I just dont know, money not the reason, I just have drive to continue educating myself.

At a student nurse convention a CRNA was a speaker and she was able to work parttime in OR while doing school (even though all schools advise against working) and came out with no CRNA loans. If you can do that or at least find a way to curb the loans and not go with no pay at all it might be worth it.

brighidh · Jun 7, 2015

My sister graduated with her CRNA about 13 years ago at 50ish and went straight into a partnership at approx 250K. She came from a long established PACU background. I don't know what opportunities still exist but the relationship and credibility she had established with the anesthesiology group was key. Prior to that, her income as a PACU nurse exceeded any NP salaries I've known of.
(I don't recall all of the exact figures)

This greatly interests me because I'm working as a PeriOp Nurse and will be cross training to PACU soon, but I honestly love what anesthesia/CRNAs do. I definitely see what they're doing since I'm turning over patients with them all day long -- and it looks much less back-breaking and like I could do it longer than I likely will as a PeriOp nurse. Only, I don't want to go to ICU and in order to get there, I figured that was the only way. How did she manage this?

Libby1987 · Jun 7, 2015

This greatly interests me because I'm working as a PeriOp Nurse and will be cross training to PACU soon, but I honestly love what anesthesia/CRNAs do. I definitely see what they're doing since I'm turning over patients with them all day long -- and it looks much less back-breaking and like I could do it longer than I likely will as a PeriOp nurse. Only, I don't want to go to ICU and in order to get there, I figured that was the only way. How did she manage this?

She had a brief stint in ICU years ago prior to going to PACU, just a couple of years I believe.

Someone mentioned working while going to school. My sis was/is a workaholic, she had months of PTO accrued and calculated just how long she could stretch them out with working part time while maintaining her benefits. For the first year she stayed with family in the school's area all week and went home for 1 1/2 days to work a shift and give hubby some attention then back at it again. That was a 4 hr commute. (My sis has some chops and way more endurance than me). For the second year, if I remember right, she lived at home and commuted to her clinicals/preceptorship (I don't recall what she called them).

What my sister didn't do was skip straight to CRNA, but the last 15-20 years of her career have been/will be well compensated as a partner.

bethanycrna · Jun 8, 2015

I have been a CRNA since 1982 and I have not seen too many 70 year-old CRNAs practicing anywhere I have worked. Anesthesia is a job that is physically demanding which many don't factor into their career plans. As Americans continue to have ever greater BMIs, our work becomes more physically demanding. Technology constantly evolves and will change future anesthesia practice in ways we can't predict. Hopefully, these changes will offset the current research findings that anesthesia providers over 50 have diminished reaction times as compared younger providers.

Quote from TheBigGuy on May 22:

" Just investing the $1758 figure monthly in a conservative mutual fund for 40 years would result in $6.1 million via the miracle of compounding interest (the above figure is using an 8% interest rate)."

As for the reliability that you will be able to achieve 8% returns year after year, I would take a look at the historic market performance for the last 20 years. The YK2 recession AKA "The Tech Bubble Collapse" and "The Great Recession" are events that destroyed many people's personal and professionals plans. Take a look at the first 10 years of compensation of graduates who started their first job during a high unemployment market versus the first 10 years compensation of graduates in a year of low unemployment. It is sobering to learn the importance of the unemployment rate on your first ten years of compensation. However, knowing what the job market will look like 3 years later when you graduate and are seeking your first job is impossible to predict. Also, you need to realize that tax rates and estate taxes will not be static for a 30 to 40 year period. Life can be difficult when you are trying to project career earnings.

automotiveRN67 · Jun 8, 2015

I have been a CRNA since 1982. My husband has been a CRNA since 1978. I had student loans, he didn't, because my NA program was based in an expensive private university. Student loans are a serious issue. My BIL graduated from a state university NA program with loans of $150K in 2001. As for salary, $84 an hour is top of the current CRNA pay grade in a large mid-western city. Little opportunity for overtime due to number of CRNA graduates from 5 NA in-state schools. The only way I would recommend nurse anesthesia to anyone is if he/she absolutely would/ could not be happy in any other type of nursing speciality. Becoming a CRNA is not nearly as secure and financially beneficial as it once was. Hospitals are under tremendous pressure to provide more care for less money due to the ACA. Anesthesia is being out-sourced to anesthesia managed corporations whose stated purpose is to cut prices and earn a profit. The financial picture for CRNAs will be much different in 10 years.

This is the key. As far as I could tell, you are the only actual CRNA who posted. The rest are "hopefuls".

In our area, the market is already becoming saturated, and the employers know it. It is also a small world, with a few groups controlling the contracts on many hospitals and centers. And they are "auditioning" students early. If a student isn't spectacular, they won't have work at all.

allnurses Guide · Jun 8, 2015

I have posted on this thread and I am also a CRNA. I don't have near the experience as bethanyCRNA, but I regularly post here and I'm also the guide for this forum.

bethanycrna · Jun 9, 2015

The market is saturated in areas were there are many NA programs. These programs are important to the universities and their associated clinic sites. The student market is substantial and there is support for programs because students equal positive cash returns. What school would decide to cut their class sizes only because their students are not able to find jobs? For example, universities turn out Ph.D.s every year in French Literature. Are the universities Probably, not.

ProgressiveThinking, MSN, CRNA · Jun 13, 2015

I have yet to hear about new grads not being able to find work. From what I read, the jobs are there if one is willing to relocate. I know a Wolford grad who got hired on by Kaiser, which here in California is one of the top employers, and they pay staff nurses really well (some RNs with a lot of years in the system make 70/hr), so I'm assuming they pay CRNAs well. The guy said his program was OKAY despite all of the bad press it gets. He says he did feel prepared coming out of school, but he just couldn't stand going so long without a day off because days off were rare once he got to the clinical portion. I think that job placement a lot to do with your ability to market yourself, but I digress..

I work at a local school's clinical site, and one SRNA said he already has two jobs offers. One is in Central California, the other is in AZ. To come out of school with 150k in loans is kind of scary though, no matter how much money you make, but I guess it's a gamble one has to take. I guess the question is: Am I 150k unhappy as an ICU nurse? Probably not. I just don't see myself doing it into my late thirties is all. Is 2.5-3 years of grueling work worth it to have a similar standard of living (albeit I would have the potential to not have to work weekends and holidays and have way more autonomy and a cooler career overall). I'm not really quite sure what the answer to this particular question is. It's not easy to invest into something without concrete financial incentive. I think the return on investment might be OKAY for now, but having so many SRNAs graduate cannot be good for the market in the long run. I mean even with baby boomers getting older A LOT ALOT of people would have to suddenly require surgery and/or A LOT of CRNAs would have to retire in order for there to be a large demand. I guess the AANA is allowing this to prevent the use of AAs?

One thing I do know is that if you're willing to relocate, anesthesia school definitely doesn't seem to be as competitive to get into as it's made out to be, at least not anymore, especially with 112+ schools open. There are some questionable nurses in my ICU who have gotten accepted. One coworker told me he has a 2.8, but he does have CCRN, and he is a very intelligent and outgoing guy, so I assume he interviewed well and had a GPA with an uphill trend.

As far as being an NP goes, I've worked with quite a few NPs who still work as bedside nurses because they either didn't want to relocate or make more money at the bedside. Anyways, I'm going to be applying to multiple programs pretty soon. NP is my backup, but if I did it would be more for personal enrichment.

This is the key. As far as I could tell, you are the only actual CRNA who posted. The rest are "hopefuls".
In our area, the market is already becoming saturated, and the employers know it. It is also a small world, with a few groups controlling the contracts on many hospitals and centers. And they are "auditioning" students early. If a student isn't spectacular, they won't have work at all.