Is it still financially worth it to become CRNA?

ThatBigGuy · May 22, 2015

How old are you? Your age matters in the long haul. Say it takes you 20 years to pay off your student loans and you're 50 when you finish. That gives you another 15-20 years of earning $1758 a month plus the now freed up loan payment of $1254 for a monthly total of $3012 per month extra for those years. Over that 20 year span, you'll have earned an extra $722,000, assuming you never get a raise (from $175k) or earn any OT by picking up extra cases here at there. Adding the $1758 extra from the loan paying 20 years (age 30 to 50) results in an additional $422k, for a total of $1.14 million, give or take a few tax brackets. Picking up two extra shifts a month will result in at least another $32k at time and a half per year.

The real payoff here is to keep your cost of living nearer to the RN level rather than the CRNA level, and wisely invest the extra earnings. Just investing the $1758 figure monthly in a conservative mutual fund for 40 years would result in $6.1 million via the miracle of compounding interest (the above figure is using an 8% interest rate). Adding any extra shift earnings to this number will only increase the total amount like crazy. Or you can keep the OT shifts and add that to your old RN base pay, and end up with a $100k yearly income anyways, on top of the $6 million you'll have in investments when you retire.

Again, this is all assuming you never get a raise from the $175k figure and you never pick up extra cases. I think you're much more likely to end up over $200k a year by the time you retire than under that figure. If you'll be starting younger than 30, this whole scenario becomes even more attractive. If you are older than 30, it becomes less attractive. Also, the more you can save before going back to school makes this idea even more attractive. Every extra $10k you can save before school starts will cut off an extra 8 months from the end of the loan repayment date.

If I were in your shoes, I'd do it, but I'd work my buns off picking up RN OT shifts for an extra year or two and see if I can save $20-$30k to offset the total loan amount. I'd also continue living as an RN until much closer to retirement, because I want to buy a huge RV and travel the states with my wife when I retire, so having a few extra million bucks in investments really speaks to me. I's also pick up extra CRNA shifts to increase my lifestyle a bit, landing somewhere between an RN and a CRNA. Just don't forget to look at this in the long term, not just the short term monthly pay differences.

To make a long story short, look at this with long term eyes, 20-40 years from now. Being younger makes this more attractive, and so does taking out less loans by saving up some before school. The older you are past 40, the less attractive this becomes. This move becomes even more profitable the closer you stay to your RN lifestyle, and the more you invest the extra income.

Bluebolt · May 22, 2015

I agree with Thatbigguy. I'm 27 and applying to a CRNA-DNP program now. I'm travel nursing now and plan to have $60,000 in a savings account when the program begins. Once completed I'll quickly pay off the residual amount owed on my DNP student loans and then save as Thatbigguy projected without attempting to buy yachts or Lamborghini's. Then in 35 years when I'm planning my retirement I'll have some millions put in a savings account. Overall it's well worth the time and effort financially. Not to mention the broadening of your scope of practice and autonomy.

Some days in the CVICU I'm doing such awesome advanced stuff I feel like a rock star, then other days I'm literally responding to a call light 7 different times to wipe the sh*t out of a lazy patients rectum. Do you really want to do that for the rest of your career?

bayareaFNPstud · May 24, 2015

Thank you for posting this because I have the exact same concerns.

I'm a 23 year old new grad and have always aspired to be a CRNA. I live in the Bay Area and just started working full-time at a magnet hospital. Like the OP, I want to have higher standards of living to support my family. As a new grad, they're paying me 54.89. If I work nights, the night differential is +$10.75, so my starting salary is ~115-130k a year. My base pay would increase $2 every year, and it caps off at $82/hr, which is around 170k yearly. I'm just afraid of losing my seniority and giving up my position. I read that there are more schools pumping out CRNAs, so the supply and demand is skewed and the salaries for CRNAs are decreasing. So my main concern is if I will be making a lot more as a CRNA in the Bay Area.

youwannaknow · May 24, 2015

So I am a SRNA in Southern California.........I would say that you should also factor in the 2-3 years of lost earnings/retirement and loan interest into your calculations. If your program is $100k, do you think it will only cost $25k a year for living expenses? All in I will be in the hole probably $350k, not including living expenses (which I do not include because they would exist if I continued working or attended a program). I think your assumption that all jobs in Southern California pay $150k and the average pay for California is $175k is researched, but incorrect for a new grad.

So you are venturing into MD territory as far as pay is concerned, in so much as if you want to make the most money you most likely will need to relocate to under-served areas in other parts of the country (which was correct in reference to rural areas).

Pay can also be confusing as some employers offer what we call 1099 jobs, private contractor, often without benefits or malpractice covered (but some jobs do cover malpractice). I am not going to go into a lengthy discussion on 1099 employment, but you need to figure that a 1099 job should pay around 30% above what you would make locally or want to make if you were working a W-2 job (traditional employment with benefits).

As for where I am pulling 30% from, I talked to my CPA and CRNAs with experience with 1099 employment. I have been offered jobs making $140-150k 1099, but think about that. That would really be like making $110k applying imprecise math and the 30% rule. Which is depressing and they hope they can sell you on all the great deductions you can take as a 1099 employee so they can underpay you, my CPA was like you can claim anything, but your are opening yourself to audit. My eyes almost popped out looking at jobs paying $190k 1099, but that is more like $145k W-2. So the average salary thing can be tricky and misleading.

Okay, as for Southern California, I only know of 2 employers paying close to $150k. One is Kaiser (multiple hospitals). Okay, so you want to work at Kaiser now you say? Well, you better hope you get into that Nurse Anesthesia program. Towards the end of that program the SRNAs choose clinical sites that they would like to employed at and the clinical sites pick which ones they want. They basically are trialed there and the hospitals pick which ones they would like to hire. Kaiser has around an average of 35 SRNAs, they do not have enough jobs for all of them. So it is a risk, but the program is fairly inexpensive and does not require the GRE, but with that it is very competitive because people generally like paying less tuition and not being required to take the GRE, oh and less prereqs are required there in comparison to other programs. Average entering GPA I believe is 3.8, but not totally sure.

So back to the under-served areas/compensation talk. Southern California is not by any means under-served. People want to live here (it's sunny and warm!) and employers are aware. So the average job here I would say starts at $120k W-2 based on what I am hearing and already know. The market is saturated with 3 Nurse Anesthesia programs. So what about the bay area, the pay is generally better there right? Samuel Merritt students have the inside track, so the Central Valley? Nope, National students will soon have the inside track there. San Diego, Napa, and the Central Coast are pretty hostile markets for CRNAs, so don't count on relocating there, I can't find any jobs in those areas. I researched Santa Rosa (close to Sonoma), there is a Kaiser there that is not hiring currently, but I wouldn't base an entire education on really only desiring to work at one place that may or may not have an open position when you'll need it, because you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Look, I love what I am doing now, but if you are really into it for the compensation and want to stay in Southern California then I would just go float pool and work a little extra to make similar income if your wife can carry your benefits. If you only want to better yourself and hopefully the compensation will follow then go for it! It is a marathon and really most programs are moving to doctorate programs requiring 3 years of study, so again consider lost income/retirement in your calculations. Employment is hit or miss, so if you have strong ties to Southern California you are gambling on yourself, and know given few jobs and many grads, employers are going to be picking the top grads or grads with ties to the facility for jobs paying on average $120k locally.

So if you are willing to relocate to follow the money (check with your wife first), then go for it, but if you really want to stay here then I'd keep crunching numbers and hope you can find employment after beating out people from all over the country for a spot in a program. I hope you take this as an honest assessment based on my observations and experience and not a jaded take based on not being able to find employment here. I have options actually, but many do not.

allnurses Guide · May 24, 2015

CRNA is a career change. It isn't like becoming a nurse in another speciality, so even if the money maybe close to the same in that area of the country you should be thinking more about the type of career you want to have in the future versus the type of career you have now.

ArrowRN, BSN, RN · May 24, 2015

Very insightful post guys, I got lots of my questions answered as well, so thanks for the detailed calculations. Being a CRNA has always been something I've considered during nursing school, but for me the age factor is what I'm looking at. I'll be 39 soon and still don't have 1 year of nursing behind me. That and considering timeline it takes to be moving into critical care(I'm in a med-surg environment now), I probably won't meet the entrance criteria for CRNA school until I'm maybe 42-45. I know CRNAs of all ages enter the program but at what age and financial consideration would you guys see as being worth it? I was thinking maybe to go the NP route would be more financially viable of my nursing career at my age or should I pursue the CRNA dream?

guest769224 · May 25, 2015

So many people go into CRNA with their eyes on the $$$ signs when you can make just as much as a NP, if you play your cards right.

And you are almost always tied to a hospital as a CRNA. Pros and cons with that. As an NP, you can leave the hospital and its politics, make good money, and have a rewarding career. That's my definition of "financially worth it". Applicants to CRNA school would drop like flies if the salary weren't so lucrative.

Plus as an RN in california you can make as much as a CRNA does, with OT.

ArrowRN, BSN, RN · May 25, 2015

I only learned about CRNAs during nursing school and the job they did appealed to me when I did OR rotations. Being an NP has advantages, less competitive, in addition I can basically start in the NP program sooner cause ICU experience is not a requirement. Lots to think about. Maybe I"ll do some job shadowing to see what each is really like.

ProgressiveThinking, MSN, CRNA · May 27, 2015

There are a few NPs working in my ICU. I think that speaks for itself. I agree that applicants would drop like flies if it didn't pay as well as it does. People flock to money and strive for more though. It's human nature. If NP excites you, then go for it. I actually almost started an NP program. I'm not sure if I see myself enjoying the role though. As a NP, you're not very hands on, and your job is to basically listen to people's problems, and try to fix them. I listen to enough problems as a staff nurse. Anesthesia is more task-based, which I like. You preop them, intubate them, induce them, keep the pt hemodynamically stable and pain free, and then extubate. Next. I like the fact that it's a little more hands on. I think working as an NP in the ICU would be awesome, but unfortunately we only have FNP and Women's health programs locally. Clinic work just doesn't excite me. Being a guy, women's health doesn't do it for me either. I would honestly be a CRNA for the same pay if tuition weren't so high. I find it to be a lot more fascinating than being a bedside RN. If I do this CRNA thing as a civilian, I just want to be able to make sure that I can at least maintain the same standard of living while paying back my loans.

So many people go into CRNA with their eyes on the $$$ signs when you can make just as much as a NP, if you play your cards right.
And you are almost always tied to a hospital as a CRNA. Pros and cons with that. As an NP, you can leave the hospital and its politics, make good money, and have a rewarding career. That's my definition of "financially worth it". Applicants to CRNA school would drop like flies if the salary weren't so lucrative.
Plus as an RN in california you can make as much as a CRNA does, with OT.

ProgressiveThinking, MSN, CRNA · May 27, 2015

I think it's just the fact that there are >2k grad per year entering the market. I just wonder at what point will supply exceed demand? I don't want to have crippling student debt and have no way to pay it off, which is why I'm pursuing the military route. Free tuition, living expenses paid, great training, free travel, and a built in job.

guest769224 · May 27, 2015

I think it's just the fact that there are >2k grad per year entering the market. I just wonder at what point will supply exceed demand?

Take a look at this thread if you haven't already done so.

https://allnurses.com/student-registered-nurse/anesthesia-growth-outlook-951859.html