Is there really no way to refuse a mandatory flu shot?

Nurses COVID

Published

Besides the medical and religious reasons which are clearly only for a rare few, is there really no hope for the healthcare occupation and those who refuse under all circumstances to get a flu shot? I was looking online to find some solutions on how to opt out, but unusually I was not able to find any type of viable solution that I could particularly use except for possibly lying which may or may still not even work.

Gestapo at its finest. Lets just hope another vocation is hiring. Clearly this isnt the field for me, or at least the particular facility.

Specializes in critical care.
Thanks for the info but at this point there is nothing anyone in the world could tell me that could change my mind from my beliefs. I fully believe the flu shot is apart of a larger conspiracy to harm our population. Am I a conspiracy theorist? You bet I am. However unlike many conspiracy theorist, I dont spend all day trying to warn the world of the upcoming conspiracy. It usually waste more time and loses more lives than it saves. So because of that, I simply choose not to partake in certain deadly and evil acts that I believe them out to be. But when someone forces me to do just the opposite of that, then I am forced to share my beliefs and make others aware if that can save myself and others. The TV is a tool for mass mind control. College is a breeding ground for propaganda. But no one is forcing anyone to go attend either of those choices. Now your telling me I cant get into healthcare? So be it, there has to be other occupations out there that exist. I fully intend to find them.[/quote']

May I inquire as to what your current occupation is?

And are you saying that the flu vaccine kills more people than it saves?

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
You understand that you can be exposed to the flu, not have symptoms, but still be contagious, right? Your immune system is strong. Good for you. Your patient's immune system isn't. You could kill them. This isn't a scare tactic. It's the truth. It surprises me to see posts like this. I was on the crunchy bandwagon of no flu vaccines, until I got to nursing school. Even if I'm rarely sick, it doesn't mean I'm not contagious with god knows what. The place I work won't have to have a mandatory policy - I'll vaccinate anyway, to protect my patients. I guess I don't understand why someone would fight this just to fight it. How does protecting your patients not benefit you???

You mean Typhoid Mary wasn't just an urban legend...

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Specializes in critical care.
You mean Typhoid Mary wasn't just an urban legend...

Everyone knows that Typhoid Mary was a fabrication created by the government to convince the people to allow the creation of the CDC, which does nothing more than scare the innocent masses into coercion to get vaccinated. Duh. I find it all a bit suspect that it was created before September 11th, and frankly, I think GW Bush was behind it all.

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What if oxygen is really poisonous but it takes years to kill us?

Haha saw that one recently...as a joke. Take what you get at face value. Get your flu vaccine!

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if it's all supposedly for the patients' protection, why don't THEY get vaccinated? If it's really that serious, how about mandatory vaccination as soon as a pt enters the facility, if they've not already had one?

The lack of dignity and autonomy we're forced to consent to is disgusting. Peeing in a cup with the door open is dehumanizing, and yes I object to getting shot up with animal-based ingredients as a vegan and "trace amounts" of mercury.

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Specializes in critical care.
if it's all supposedly for the patients' protection why don't THEY get vaccinated? If it's really that serious, how about mandatory vaccination as soon as a pt enters the facility, if they've not already had one? The lack of dignity and autonomy we're forced to consent to is disgusting. Peeing in a cup with the door open is dehumanizing, and yes I object to getting shot up with animal-based ingredients as a vegan and "trace amounts" of mercury.[/quote']

Are you serious?

(ETA: not about why you personally oppose them, but about mandatory vaccination for all of the patients coming in.)

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Are you serious?

(ETA: not about why you personally oppose them, but about mandatory vaccination for all of the patients coming in.)

I am serious about pointing out the hypocrisy, if that's what you mean. No one would ever attempt to force or "mandate" a medical intervention to a patient, no matter how much it might do to prevent flu transmission. But as healthcare workers we are not granted that basic personal autonomy, and I think that is disgusting and unethical.

No, I don't believe that a vaccine should be forced on anyone, obviously. Patients (or their POA if incapable of consent) should be informed of risks and potential benefits of vaccination and offered the shot upon admission, and it should be THEIR responsibility to get the vaccine THEMSELVES if they are concerned about potentially getting the flu and believe that the vaccine offers protection.

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if it's all supposedly for the patients' protection, why don't THEY get vaccinated? If it's really that serious, how about mandatory vaccination as soon as a pt enters the facility, if they've not already had one?

The lack of dignity and autonomy we're forced to consent to is disgusting. Peeing in a cup with the door open is dehumanizing, and yes I object to getting shot up with animal-based ingredients as a vegan and "trace amounts" of mercury.

We can't force patients to get vaccinated. It is required charting as well as a Core measure for CMS to offer and document either their refusal, previous vaccination status or an allergy excluding them. As RN's, we also have a right to refuse the vaccine, sign a declination and accept you'll have to wear a mask during peak outbreaks. I have horrible reactions to vaccines of any kind since my diagnosis of EBV, never had an issue previous. So, every year I decline and agree to wear a mask if mandated.

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Specializes in Leadership, Psych, HomeCare, Amb. Care.
Gestapo at its finest. Lets just hope another vocation is hiring. Clearly this isnt the field for me, or at least the particular facility.

Amazing! What are the odds of running afoul of Godwin's Law in the opening argument?

Oy Gevalt!

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Specializes in critical care.
I am serious about pointing out the hypocrisy if that's what you mean. No one would ever attempt to force or "mandate" a medical intervention to a patient, no matter how much it might do to prevent flu transmission. But as healthcare workers we are not granted that basic personal autonomy, and I think that is disgusting and unethical. No, I don't believe that a vaccine should be forced on anyone, obviously. Patients (or their POA if incapable of consent) should be informed of risks and potential benefits of vaccination and offered the shot upon admission, and it should be THEIR responsibility to get the vaccine THEMSELVES if they are concerned about potentially getting the flu and believe that the vaccine offers protection.[/quote']

Thank you for clarifying. I was thinking to myself, surely this person knows that's not possible, and that it will not curb the problem at all considering the hope is to reduce hospital transmission/acquisition of the flu, so giving it at the hospital won't actually help. Plus hospitalized patients may very well have a weakened immune system due to whatever they are there for, so at that time it may very well be contraindicated.

I do get what you are saying, and I support the right to refusal for medical reasons. I could even get on board with morality reasons (being vegan) or simply someone doing a well-reasoned risk/benefit walk-through. (Nurses, though, I believe we have higher risks not getting it, to our patients and the families we go home to.) Opposing it for the sake of opposition is what I can't wrap my mind around. For some reason people flip out when you tell them they "must" do something.

"Hey, employees, you are required to take this $1,000 holiday bonus. It's mandatory."

"No! I want to see studies, and not from the government because I don't trust them. Besides, why are we being singled out? How is this fair? Do you know where that $1,000 has been? Who funded it? Is it ethical? Why is it a "holiday" bonus? I'm offended you didn't call it a Christmas bonus. No! Because I don't believe anything should ever be mandatory. It violates my rights."

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Specializes in Med-Surg.

I am serious about pointing out the hypocrisy, if that's what you mean. No one would ever attempt to force or "mandate" a medical intervention to a patient, no matter how much it might do to prevent flu transmission. But as healthcare workers we are not granted that basic personal autonomy, and I think that is disgusting and unethical.

No, I don't believe that a vaccine should be forced on anyone, obviously. Patients (or their POA if incapable of consent) should be informed of risks and potential benefits of vaccination and offered the shot upon admission, and it should be THEIR responsibility to get the vaccine THEMSELVES if they are concerned about potentially getting the flu and believe that the vaccine offers protection.

Seriously, I see a lot more nasty, infection spreading behavior from patients than from staff. Droplet precautions? Oh, but Mr. Claustrophobia can't keep the door closed, and apparently his parents never taught him to cover his mouth when he coughs. And when staff remind him, it's the end of the world.

Seriously, this behavior is more the norm than the exception where I work.

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Thank you for clarifying. I was thinking to myself, surely this person knows that's not possible, and that it will not curb the problem at all considering the hope is to reduce hospital transmission/acquisition of the flu, so giving it at the hospital won't actually help. Plus hospitalized patients may very well have a weakened immune system due to whatever they are there for, so at that time it may very well be contraindicated.

I don't work in a hospital (and yes, mandatory flu vax is one of the many reasons why i've never pursued that.) This just illustrates why the flu vax is a fool's errand - forcing nurses to get the shot is like tossing pebbles into the ocean. Patients, their families/visitors, etc. carry the flu in and out everyday.

A patient with the flu where i work (sub acute rehab) can transmit it to an entire floor without a nurse ever being involved - they can walk up and down the halls touching everything, cough all over the shared shower room, share droplets with everyone at their table in the dining room, give their visiting families hugs and kisses, get up close and personal with other patients in physical therapy...all while contagious and before ever showing symptoms. Forcing nurses to get a flu shot is not going to reduce patient infection even a little bit.

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