Is there REALLY such a thing as overachieving?

mattsmom81 · Mar 30, 2005

I see by the last post the OP is angry. I hope my post did not come across as critical....in retrospect I probably took a larger view of the question that what you were seeking.

My POV comes from being raised a perfectionist and what it can do to you...it can be quite self destructive. I did a lot of self work through ACOA (Aduly Children of Alcoholics) and I STILL struggle with perfectionistic expectations from my childhood. Eventually we tend to wear out and become depressed, as obviously, humans are NOT perfect. When we are driven to be 'perfect' (Yes I was a 4.0 as well) we must look at what drives that. In my case it was fear and need from unmet childhood experiences. It was my need to do everything 'right' to prevent the problems in my family of origin.

Good luck to you in your studies and again my apologies if I said anything offensive; your question was interesting and I probably read more into it than you intended. :).

CRNAinTHEfuture · Mar 30, 2005

Mattsmom...no, you did not offend me. You responded to my question, and that I appreciate. The posts that have anger in them were intended for a "slobgob". This person decided to offer personalized assumptions and nasty comments rather than an opinion of the subject at hand. :angryfire

Slobgob...where did you get that I have already taken med/surg/ortho classes? I haven't even started clinicals, and I don't know about yours, but my school won't let a person in clinicals without having taken A&P I and II first.

BETSRN · Mar 31, 2005

I have somewhat of a statement, somewhat of a question. First, a little background. . .
I'm an ADN student, transferring to Carolina in Spring 2006 to get my BSN. My terminal goal is Nurse Anesthesia, so I believe going ahead and getting my BSN out of the way would be the best plan for me. The problem?? My A&P classmates at the Tech school I'm attending now. I made the "mistake" of telling them after the second exam that I wasn't accepting anything less than an "A." (Which is true - my average is 99.5). I am FULLY aware (thanks to many of you on this forum) of what it's going to take from me to get in NA school, and I'm doing the best I can to make myself an attractive candidate for when the time comes to apply to NA school. Did that explanation work for my classmates? Nooooooo.......The class average is 67. 67!!!! These people are going to be nurses and they can't identify a femur from a humerus???????
My question for you is this: Is it REALLY possible to overacheive? In my case, it's basically a mindset. I want to be a Nurse Anesthetist and nothing, nothing at all is going to prevent me from diving full force into my studies to make it happen. I need A's in A&P, Micro and other science courses, right?? Fine. I'll do what I have to do to make that happen. I don't feel like I've been rude or arrogant to my classmates - actually, I've felt kind of embarrassed to share exam grades and lab practical grades with them, because...well....most of them are failing. I don't feel I need to explain myself to them any further, but I still get the sideways comments (teacher's pet, goody 2 shoes, know-it-all). I'm sure they are said in good fun, but why does the A-maker in the class have to be the one to catch crap for making A's????
Anyone with an opinion?
B in SC

Don't worry about anyone but yourself. Keep your comments and thoughts to yourself. Eeryone's goals are different.

In order to get into an anesthesia school, you usually have to have at least a few years of ICU experience before they will even consider you at all. Do what YOU need to be successful.

You need to get SUCCESSFULLY through your BSN program before you can even consider anesthesia school. Nursing is NOT all about good grades in A&P and Micro. Nursing is also about clinical skills. Your success as a clinical nurse is going to hold a tremendous weight as well. These programs are VERY intense as well as competitive.

Your peers are probably intimidated by your drive and desire. Come down a few pegs and hit reality. There is a lot more to this entire career than your A's in your classes.

BETSRN · Mar 31, 2005

Okay, it seems that I've ruffled some feathers in the way that presented my question. Thanks to all of you for your input.
1. I know my average in the class is a 99.5 because that's what was shown in our mid-term report The fact that I told you what the actual average was doesn't make me obsessive - it makes me observant. And I don't judge my classmates. I just don't think that some of them are aware of the scope of what is required of a college student. I think some expect to be babied, and they're learning the hard way that college students at any level (pre-nursing or not) don't get babied. They're happy with their C's and D's...fine. Let them be happy with that. The mentality of it is what I don't understand.
Do I care about the .5 of the 99.5? Not at all. As a matter of fact, if the grade is within the range that will put an A on my transcript, I'm happy with that. Am I going to have a break down if I come out of the class with a B? No!! I'll be disappointed, sure, but only because I know my own capabilities.
2. There is no curve to kill in this class. As a matter of fact, I haven't encountered a prof in a good, long while that will even CONSIDER a curve. You either know it or you don't.
3. I don't brag to my classmates about my grades. After the first exam and lab practical (that most failed), I was asked by my lab partner how I was doing in the class. I told her, she made a big scene about it. . .We have somewhat of an unspoken agreement to practice the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. They don't ask, and I don't tell.
4. I don't want to be in Anesthesia SOLELY for the money. True, the money will be nice, but this is a field that interests me. I first heard the term "Anesthesia Awareness" about 6 or 7 years ago, and it freaked me out enough to do research for my own personal knowledge. Since then, I've been fascinated by it. And to be perfectly honest, I didn't know that such a thing as a Nurse Anesthetist existed until about a year and a half ago, and I only found that out through an article in Reader's Digest. Besides the fact that it interests me, the nature of the job allows the autonomy that I'm looking for.
5. I'm not missing out on my kid's lives - my 3 (soon to be 4) year old tells me before I leave for class on Mon. and Wed. nights to "Have fun in you class, Mommy. And no time outs, okay?" As a matter of fact, my husband appreciates the time he gets to spend alone with them.
Yes, there are people that don't deal well with what they consider to be failure. And it's a shame. I just wanted to know other opinions of those in the field. I don't cry over B's, but I know what it's going to take to make it, and I know that I have the capabilities to make it happen for me.

I just have to add, after reading most of the posts in this thread, that you have a HUGE shock awaiting you as you become a nurse. I certainly wish you the best, but my advice to you is to put the zipper on your mouth about your grades, just go about learning ALL your skills and be prepared to get a huge culture shock when you hit nursing school.

BETSRN · Mar 31, 2005

Actually... that's another little matter that irks me.
In some regard my grades might be a little better, if only I memorized the specific gravity of the neonate's most concentrated urine (1.015-1.020) I would have gotten a better grade... but you get my drift. I've stilled worked hard for my grades. I think it must be my program.
For instance... I took 5 unit Physio, 5 unit Anatomy, and 5 unit Micro all the same semester and got all A's... but I put way more effort into this school for my B's. I'll give you a small preview:
Out of 48 students
Nursing 1A: 3 As
Nursing 1B: 1 A
Nursing 2: 2 As
Nursing 3: 2 As
When people talk about their GPAs... the usual line goes: 3.2-3.5 overall GPA, 3.7-4.0 nursing school GPA. How are you guys getting such good grades in nursing school and not simple math/science courses? The absolute best GPA in my class right now... 3.4! And this girl studies her butt off...
Out of 48 students, by the end of the second semester we'll probably be down to about 20 original students. I guess that's why the NCLEX pass rates can be so high... heh.
But i digress...

You may make it highly in the classroom, but in clinicals you may well be one of those "C" students. Why do you think classes of nursing students are so much smaller at graduation than when they start? It is because the intense clinicals WEED THEM OUT!!

I just want to add here that your attitude that you present on this board will greatly hinder you when you graduate. Your peers will not put up with it. You may graduate with a wonderful knowledge base, but is you have minimal critical thinking skills, you will NOT make it as a clinical nurse or as a CRNA.

By the way, I, also, am one of those ones who graduated at the top of my class. I think you need to take a class on humility. It would serve you well in your school life as well as in your home life with family and friends.

As I have already said, I fear you are in for a HUGE shock. Get over yourself and your tenths of percents and be a real person. You can't go back and live over what you have missed.

BETSRN · Mar 31, 2005

"
My only problem with people who strive for A's is how heartbroken and bent out of shape they can be when they make a 94 or gasp an 88 (even though in the end they still get their A's). Sometimes through the tears they loose their perspective. (I'm sure to get flamed here, but what the heck).
/QUOTE]
No flames from me, Tweety ... just total agreement. I was a "super-student" in high school -- valedictorian, awards, all that stuff. From high school, I went straight to Duke and its most prestigious academic scholarship. I have academic credit from Oxford University in England, a long list of professional nursing achievements, a PhD, and a job that many nurses consider the ultimate "dream job." People who don't know me well sometimes look at me as one of those over-achievers.
BUT ... those who know me well know that I have had my share of failures, of bad grades, of projects that flopped, of jobs that "didn't work out," etc. Learning to cope with failure has been part of my process of professional and personal maturation. As you said above, we all need to develop a healthy perspective when it comes to our lives, our work, our achievements. Sometimes, high achievers fail to develop that perspective -- and drive themselves and those around them crazy. They can also offend those around them by being so self-centered about their performance that they become insensitive to what's happening around them and to the needs of others. When that happens, they lose their ability to be a leader and lose their ability to make the most of their talents.
High performance is great ... We should all strive to do high-quality work. But we should also work on developing a perspective of our performance that allows for less than perfection.
llg
EXCELLENT post!! Right on there!

llg, PhD, RN · Mar 31, 2005

EXCELLENT post!! Right on there!
Thanks, BETSRN. I was hesitant to list some of my accomplishments -- affraid of hitting a few "wrong buttons." I am happy to read that you understood my purpose for including that information -- that even those of us who appear to be highly successful have had to go through many failures and disappointments in life and have had to develop the emotional maturity to deal with those disappointments.
Learning to take risks and cope with failure has been a major theme of my life -- because it is not something I learned as a child. I had so much success as a child that the pressure to succeed (and the fear of failure) became quite uncomfortable. Now that I am 49 years old, I find that I have matured a lot in that realm of human behavior, but I still work on it.
Lately, I have been playing on-line poker and finding that a good way to further develop myself. Even when you win game or "come out ahead" for the night, you don't win every hand. Even the best players lose on a regular basis. That is true of most games and sports. It's also true in other areas of life.
For example, last night, I lost $3000 in pretend money before I started winning -- sometimes because of bad luck -- sometimes because of mistakes I made -- sometimes because other players simply played better than I did. I think that learning how to accept those losses (and the reasons for them) and to keep playing and to keep trying to improve my game is actually good for me. It has paralells to other areas of my life and I can learn lessons at the poker table that will help me deal with issues in other areas of my life.
llg

SmilingBluEyes · Mar 31, 2005

Graduated two college programs 4.0 and realized the grades are just the beginning. There is SO MUCH more to life and nursing than my grades and my 4.0 while nice, did not make a huge difference in my ability to hit the floor and learn NURSING. Not to mention, maintaining a 4.0 did take a toll on my family life for a while there .My face was ALWAYS IN BOOKS------it was not without a cost. My attitude in returning to school is so different. It's not that I don't care about my grades, but I also want to give it the time/energy DUE, not ALL OF IT. My kids still need me. My husband does, too. Life is to be lived, not spent in a book 24/7. JMO.

Best wishes to the OP.

humglum, BSN, RN · Mar 31, 2005

I also graduated with a 4.0 from my nursing program, but I have to say I didn't work that hard to get it. I studied a lot less than most of my classmates, I just have a natural aptitude for academics. I was fine in clinicals, but I was definitely not the strongest person there. Even now, I am a competent, efficient, skilled nurse, but I really excel at pathophysiology, staff education, and didactic learning. Some people are just better at academics.

Having said that, I also have to admit that I'm a perfectionist. If I had gotten less than a 4.0, or less than an A on every exam even, I'm sure I would have been very upset. It has only been during my career as a nurse that I am learning how to begin to accept my shortcomings and failures as well as my achievements. Its not an easy lesson, but as has already been posted, we can be excellent, but not perfect.

I wish the OP great success in her endeavors. You have to find the balance of school/work(?)/family that works for you. I'm going back for my BSN in June, and you can bet I won't be all torn up if I get a B in something. Now I have a life, a family, a job, a partner to worry about... school is important, but its not the only thing. What matters is the degree, not the GPA. (Or, uh, to befuddle this more, the GPA actually does matter if you're trying to get into anesthesia school, but I'm not)

Whew! Holy long post Batman!

Lawnurse · Mar 31, 2005

Dear Origional Poster,

It sounds like you are doing a really good job raising your children while you still excel in the non-family aspects.

I don't have children yet, but I do spend a lot of time thinking how to best do both...even though it will be at least another 5 or 6 years before I have children. And I mean a lot of time.

How would you sum up your parenting philosophy? Just looking for some basic advice to keep in mind.

I think this is what is called a "highjack" in the message-board world - I apologize. I'm just so in awe of anyone who does both things well.

lady_jezebel · Mar 31, 2005

I have somewhat of a statement, somewhat of a question. First, a little background. . .
I'm an ADN student, transferring to Carolina in Spring 2006 to get my BSN. My terminal goal is Nurse Anesthesia, so I believe going ahead and getting my BSN out of the way would be the best plan for me. The problem?? My A&P classmates at the Tech school I'm attending now. I made the "mistake" of telling them after the second exam that I wasn't accepting anything less than an "A." (Which is true - my average is 99.5). I am FULLY aware (thanks to many of you on this forum) of what it's going to take from me to get in NA school, and I'm doing the best I can to make myself an attractive candidate for when the time comes to apply to NA school. Did that explanation work for my classmates? Nooooooo.......The class average is 67. 67!!!! These people are going to be nurses and they can't identify a femur from a humerus???????
My question for you is this: Is it REALLY possible to overacheive? In my case, it's basically a mindset. I want to be a Nurse Anesthetist and nothing, nothing at all is going to prevent me from diving full force into my studies to make it happen. I need A's in A&P, Micro and other science courses, right?? Fine. I'll do what I have to do to make that happen. I don't feel like I've been rude or arrogant to my classmates - actually, I've felt kind of embarrassed to share exam grades and lab practical grades with them, because...well....most of them are failing. I don't feel I need to explain myself to them any further, but I still get the sideways comments (teacher's pet, goody 2 shoes, know-it-all). I'm sure they are said in good fun, but why does the A-maker in the class have to be the one to catch crap for making A's????
Anyone with an opinion?
B in SC

I went to Carolina for my BSN. No one would act like such an idiot in nursing school. People are highly competitive for A's at UNC.

CRNAinTHEfuture · Apr 1, 2005

Dear Origional Poster,
It sounds like you are doing a really good job raising your children while you still excel in the non-family aspects.
I don't have children yet, but I do spend a lot of time thinking how to best do both...even though it will be at least another 5 or 6 years before I have children. And I mean a lot of time.
How would you sum up your parenting philosophy? Just looking for some basic advice to keep in mind.
I think this is what is called a "highjack" in the message-board world - I apologize. I'm just so in awe of anyone who does both things well.

Thanks again to all of you. I can't stress enough how much I appreciate your input. I also can't stress enough that it's not going to break me down if I get B's. . .and there's nothing for me to get over about myself. I don't give a rat's patooey about tenths of a point.

Parenting. . .it wasn't easy to begin with (I have a 2 and a 3 year old). I don't really have a philosophy to offer, because I believe you have to evaluate your situation and figure out how to strike the balance between family, work and academics. There are little things I do to be sure that my girls know that they're important to me and that I'm interested in what's going on in their worlds.

1. When I talk to them, I'm sure to bend down to their level and look them in the eye when I'm talking to them.

2. Though my M-W class (6-9pm) doesn't allow me to be at home for bath time, I'm still able to be home for dinner. We sit as a family at the dinner table and talk to each other. My 2 year old is still a little difficult to understand sometimes, but she certainly rambles along with us.

3. My girls have a "bath, back rub and book" routine every night. When I'm not there, Dad takes over (and likes it, actually).This is a perfect time for snuggling!!

4. I use nap time on the weekends for studying. My 3 year old, soon to be 4, doesn't nap anymore. But, she does "study" with me - she does arts & crafts/coloring type things at the kitchen table with me while I'm studying. She's not always interested in doing that, so I readjust my study time when she gets bored with that.

The important thing (to me, at least) is to remind yourself that children don't really care that you have exams, projects for work or notes to rewrite. They care that you're attentive to them and you're offering lots of affection. I read somewhere that, regardless of your schedule, you should "get down on the floor" to play with your kids for at least 30 minutes a day. And no, your child will not be scarred for life if they go to a day care....that's a whole other topic, though.