i am a charge RN in a cvicu. yesterday i took care of a man that was pod1 5 vessel cabg on a balloon pump and multiple drips. i had post op'd the pt the previous day so i had developed a repor with he and his family. he was telling me that his daughter is a physical therapist and works in a DR's office yadda yadda, yadda. he then asks me if i make good money beings that i have no college degree. i informed him that i did have a college degree and was very well educated in my field. he stated that he was unaware that you needed to go to college to be a nurse.
i was shocked! this was a very sick man and needed detailed care! is this the perception of the public that anyone can walk in off the street and get a job as a nurse? do they think it is like checking groceries or something? and this was a very well educated man himself. i am still just shocked and offended! has anyone else had this happen?
Well doggone it, I had my popcorn and beer all ready and was getting comfy for a good ol' fashioned flame fest. :chuckle You people quit being respectful and logical, I'm bored, damn it!!
I haven't had anyone out and out SAY something like that to me, but it would really piss me off if they did. I really feel, deep in my heart, that the lack of respect nurses have ORIGINATES from the fact that it spawned as a female-dominated profession, and medicine spawned as a male-dominated profession...medicine and nursing "proper," that is. Anyhoo, I feel that the lack of respect now is PERPETUATED by many more factors, gender being the least of them in it's most basic sense.
I also agree w/whomever it was that said the general public watches way too much t.v.. No doubt!!!
But I believe the previously stated patient's daughter was identified as a physical theripist ,which requires a Bachelor's degree, while a respiratory therapist does not.
Most people consider that if you can do a job without a university (4-year) degree, you are a blue collar worker. Hence the low status of nurses in the public's eye. I personally think that most ADN's have done more work academically than some people with 4-year degrees....but in many people's eyes a profession requires that you have to get a 4-year degree to practice it, and so they don't consider nursing a profession or see nurses as professionals.
If you don't believe it, try telling the next person you meet that you have a Bachelors Degree in business....see how differently they treat you!
Personally I doubt seriously that the comment the patient made had anything to do with different degree levels. You have to think about this for a minute. What was the patient's age? It was not so long ago that the vast majority of nurses were diploma prepared nurses, programs were run by the hospital, they worked in the hospital, they trained in that same hospital. For many of the older folks that is their knowledge of how nurses are educated. In my years I have run into more than a few older patients that did not realize that the way nurses used to be trained is not the way most nurses are educated anymore. I have upon occasion had an older patient that does not understand why we don't wear caps anymore and say out loud that they wish we did. I take no offense to this because I know enough nursing history to realize why the patient has the perception that nurses don't need a college degree.
In the hospital that is my host hospital there was a nursing program there for a number of years, run by the nuns. Bronson Hospital in Kalamazoo had a diploma program up until just a few short years ago.
Of course the public has very little understanding of what we do actually. What true education has there been by the profession to the public on this? I'll tell you something, I do wound management and infection control. Out of all the docs I work with there is only one that insists I call him before I change any wound orders, and it is a rare event that he doesn't want to look at the wound himself. The other docs simply write for wound nurse to eval and treat. I write the orders and they sign it. No, it wasn't like that in the beginning, but as they watched me do my thing and consistantly heal wounds that had been nonhealing, wounds that were complicated and often very nasty, the docs I work with have become quite comfortable with whatever I think is appropriate. I tell you this because not too long ago I had a patient with necrotizing fascitis that had a large area of her thigh removed, this was done in another facility. When she came to me I looked at the wound and then the current treatment and decided that something else would work better. I explained to the patient what I was going to be doing and why. She looked at me and in a very snotty voice said "Well, I guess that would be the doctor's job, don't you?! I really wanted to go BLAHHHHHHHHHHH, um sure. But I didn't. Instead I explained what my role was, how frequently I speak to the physician regarding the wound, what is charted, what notes I put in progress notes each week for the physician to look over and sign and so on. She was still quite doubtful that this could be done this way, but after a couple weeks and excellant healing going on she decided that just maybe a nurse could make those decisions. I wondered how much heart failure she would have if I explained the way nurses function in an ICU. Situations like this are because of the public's perception of nursing and what we are all about, but ultimately it is our own fault for not being able to clearly educate the public. And of course it must also be noted that depending on where you work and what policies there are, will also make a difference in what a nurse is allowed to do. When I worked in a neuro ICU when a patient was crashing the nurses were expected to know what to do, to do it and then call the physician once at a point the patient could safely be left to do so. Large teaching hospital, however in a smaller rural hospital where a friend worked in an ICU what I did would have gotten her fired.
I find it best that when a patient expresses thoughts that are clearly not the way things are is to not get angry or upset by them, but to take the moment to educate the patient as to what nurses do day in and day out. I also usually throw in something about the nursing shortage, the causes and what is likely to happen if nurses are not shown more respect, so we can keep the nurses we have and attract young people into the field. It is often an eye opening experience for the patient and their family. Don't get upset, educate instead.
The docs don't care what specific degree a nurse has, nor does the public. Only other nurses seem to think it matters. Except for the one doc I work with I have a fantastic working relationship with the physicians I work with. Not because I have a BSN or because I do have an ADN, but because I have been able to do what I do effectively and well, not only wounds but in infection control also. I have made a point to make sure I educate myself on the new things, the new guidelines etc... and in my very humble opinion it is those things that garner respect. Not a degree level, but the ability to know how to do my job and do it well. Some CEO's make money I will only dream about, but that certainly does not make me respect them. I have an excellant pharmacist that I work with, she has a doctorate but that is not what makes me respect her, I respect her because she is absolutely fantastic at her job. I have meant people that are dumb as a box of rocks with advanced degree's, it is not the degree that makes a person, it is their ability to use the knowledge and experience that they have. If there was ever a point in my life that in order to get a job or go somewhere else in the job I have that I had to get a BSN than I would, but at this time I am happy and quite satisfied with what I do and it does not require me to have any further formal education than I have, so why do it? For respect? No, I have a great deal of respect now, from my manager to my coworkers to the physicians and last but not least from my patients because as they heal and they see what is taking place they understand what I do. I also take time nearly everytime I see a patient to explain why they are healing and what products I am using and why I am using those specific products. If you don't educate your patients as to what you are doing and the why behind it than they will never understand why they should offer you respect.
I didn't mention in my post that a BSN would accomplish all of the things you listed. I simply mentioned that having ONE point of entry would eliminate confusion among ourselves, and, as evidenced by this patient, the public. Or are you arguing that if we had one method of nursing education, it would NOT eliminate public confusion?
Funny, every single one of your posts on this thread mentioned something about the need for a BSN. To me it seems like you certainly are proporting that having a BSN would solve nursing's problems. (You may not be stating it directly, but I really think that is your underlying message). I am not arguing that one method of education wouldn't help eliminate confusion. Not at all. It just seems that your argument runs much deeper than just wanting to eliminate public confusion. I agree with other posters who say that the public really doesn't care. And I still contend it is the nature of our work and our stereotypes that contribute to public opinion. I definitely think that continuing our education is important. But I also think that it would be nice to join together - and not tear each other down.
That is why--- I believe, If tomorrow, we all were BSN-only RN's it would still not be NEAR enough to change the public view of nursing in general and do NOTHING to garner respect from the esteemed doctors with whom we work. I just believe the issue is MULTI-dimensional and see the BIG picture, I guess.
Agreed! To me it is very narrow minded to place so much emphasis on educational levels. Nursing has SO many more problems...Really, it would be nice to work together to find some common solutions to our issues.
I WAS FLOATED FROM MY BUSY MED/SURG UNIT TO THE ICU AND THE NSG THERE ASK ME IF I COULD PASS MEDS. WELL I WAS FLOORED . WHAT DID SHE THINK I DID ON MY UNIT CROSS STITCH?????????? I ENDED UP BATHING PATIENTS. AND WE ARE ALWAYS OVER BUDGET AND THEY WONDER WHY. EVEN OUR CO-WORKERS ARE UNAWARE OF OUR EDU.
Funny, every single one of your posts on this thread mentioned something about the need for a BSN. To me it seems like you certainly are proporting that having a BSN would solve nursing's problems. (You may not be stating it directly, but I really think that is your underlying message). I am not arguing that one method of education wouldn't help eliminate confusion. Not at all. It just seems that your argument runs much deeper than just wanting to eliminate public confusion. I agree with other posters who say that the public really doesn't care. And I still contend it is the nature of our work and our stereotypes that contribute to public opinion. I definitely think that continuing our education is important. But I also think that it would be nice to join together - and not tear each other down.
You are reading entirely way too much into my posts. In fact, in other threads long time ago, I've been a proponent for ONE point of entry, doesn't matter if it's an ADN or BSN - but ONE point of entry would be nice. That is what I typed above and that is what I meant. If I happen to be a proponent for the BSN being the minimum, that certainly isn't wrong. If in my posts above I stated all ADNs are bad and evil and BSNs are great, then I could see reasoning for your post. Until then, I didn't "tear anyone down." I simply see education as part of our problems.
Nursing is still regarded by the publc as the most ethical and honest of all the professions so we must be doing something right.
That said, most of Nursings problems are generated and definitly perpetuated by RNs themselves. The accceptance of stereo types by the public , hospital administrators, MDs, etc. can and will continue until we consciously make an effort to change those stero types. Too many RNs accept those sterotypes or at least aren't willing to change them.
shay
829 Posts
Well doggone it, I had my popcorn and beer all ready and was getting comfy for a good ol' fashioned flame fest. :chuckle
You people quit being respectful and logical, I'm bored, damn it!! 
I haven't had anyone out and out SAY something like that to me, but it would really piss me off if they did. I really feel, deep in my heart, that the lack of respect nurses have ORIGINATES from the fact that it spawned as a female-dominated profession, and medicine spawned as a male-dominated profession...medicine and nursing "proper," that is. Anyhoo, I feel that the lack of respect now is PERPETUATED by many more factors, gender being the least of them in it's most basic sense.
I also agree w/whomever it was that said the general public watches way too much t.v.. No doubt!!!